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Do you Cut a Rookie Coach the same slack as a rookie Player?

	Yes
	No

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a rookie player.

This post is early in the 49er game when the score is 0-0 and the Dolphins are at the 49ers 28 yard line so no mistake has been made at this point.

I think you have to, and for basically the same reasons.

Rick

I'm sorry when you get the job of head coach, like President, you can't be given "rookie" mistakes.

A man who is not fully ready to make the decisions necessary to win like an old vet simply should not get the job.

The fact that the man has been in coaching for about 10 different organizations and has never been a head coach might explain rookie mistakes.

But I can never remember a professional coach being hired as a head coach when, college or junior college, this was his first HEAD coaching job.

On our final drive 4 bombs into the endzone????????

Really????????????????????

No, he is paid to make decisions

We have been giving the GM slack for too long

We've had a string of rookie head coaches and it has not worked well for us. A head coach should hit the ground running.

Joe Philbin Wikipedia
Team(s) as a coach/administrator
1984-1985 Tulane (Graduate Assistant)
1986-1987 WPI (Offensive Line)
1988-1989 USMMA (Offensive Line)
1990-1993 Allegheny College (Offensive Coordinator/Line)
1994 Ohio (Offensive Line)
1995-1996 Northeastern (Offensive Coordinator/Line)
1997-1998 Harvard (Offensive Coordinator/Line)
1999-2002 Iowa (Offensive Line)
2003 Green Bay Packers (Assistant Offensive Line)
2004-2005 Green Bay Packers (Tight Ends/Assistant Offensive Line)
2006 Green Bay Packers (Offensive Line)
2007-2011 Green Bay Packers(Offensive Coordinator)
2012-present Miami Dolphins (Head Coach)

NO! You don't cut a rookie HC the same slack as a rookie player. From my perspective I must compare it to a military installation.

A rookie Wing Commander, has held numerous positions during his career. In each position he learns administration and management of personnel and equipment. Finally, when selected for the big job, he already has the tools to handle everything. His subordinates (lieutenants, although often of the same grade as him) are responsible for various things. This is very much like a football team having assistant coaches that includes the OC.

In our situation, the Wing Commander is Philbin, and he has to provide vision and direction for the team. His assistants are required to deal with his vision and to do what is necessary to carry things out. If Phiblin has not told Sherman that his play calling sucks and needs to avoid throwing long foolish passes to outclassed WRs, then he is 100% responsible for not correcting and setting the course straight with his good friend Mike Sherman.

By now--the word to Sherman should have been made. Philbin is now fully subject to criticism for Sherman's crap play calling.

You guys think Cleveland would like to have a do-over on Bill Belichick?

Oakland with Mike Shanahan?

Think the Jags are sorry they showed Tom Coughlin the door?



Coaches are like anyone else. They learn from their experiences. Especially guys who have never been the top dog before at any level.

Philbin will be fine. So will Tannehill.

Assuming of course that Ireland gets them some weapons to work with.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You guys think Cleveland would like to have a
> do-over on Bill Belichick?
>
> Oakland with Mike Shanahan?
>
> Think the Jags are sorry they showed Tom Coughlin
> the door?
>
>
>
> Coaches are like anyone else. They learn from
> their experiences. Especially guys who have never
> been the top dog before at any level.
>
> Philbin will be fine. So will Tannehill.
>
> Assuming of course that Ireland gets them some
> weapons to work with.

Good point. But for every one that fits into that scenario, there's a loooooong list of head coaches that were fired without regret.

I completely disagree. Head coaches have to learn to be head coaches just like rookies have to learn their positions in the pros. Guys that were head coaches before and were fired had to learn how to be good head coaches, like Belichick did. How do you learn to be a head coach when you are an assistant coach? You don't, any more than a Vice-President learns to be president- until he's actually in the job. Assistants learn the tools- they can't learn how to apply them until they are called upon to do so.

As for that last drive (or lack thereof), at least three were makeable passes. Hit one or two of those, we're not having this conversation.

Rick

Probably more slack. The rookie head coach is coming on a team that he very little control over the building of.

The new coach, rookie or not, is stuck with a bunch of players that aren't "his". It takes some time to fully know the personelle, establish a system, and build a rapport with the players. And as long as the coach isn't completely incompetent, and wins a few games his first year, then that is good enough. The new coach gets judged harder in year 2, and ultimately in year 3.

As for the rookie, he either shows he has the goods or not.

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Miami Dolphins. Always Perfect.

I give Philbin a pass, mostly because the troops he is working with aren't that great on the offensive side of the ball. The defense is solid but can also use some additions. Next year I believe is the one where the Dolphins become a winner again. Probably not a dominant winner just yet, but somewhat more like the Steelers..a 9-7ish Wild Card team.

On the play selection, tHe reason for the bombs, is the 49ers where crushing the short routes, and the only thing that was kind of open was the long range. The 9ers basically dared Tannehill to beat them deep and the guys just didn't get it done. No matter how good a coach you are, it really all comes down to the personnel that is playing on the field in the end. Dear Ireland: Your QB needs a high quality speedy play making receiver!

I'm not saying we take out all our frustrations on Philbin. The question posed was the amount of slack we give between a rookie player versus a rookie HC.

With both we need to be patient; more so with players. Mike Sherman is doing the play calling. His approach seems to be misfiring badly, very badly. I'm not sure there's enough offense to win another ball game.

The end zone pass to Fasano for a TD was the highlight of the game for both players, and the team. It is a sensational catch for Fasano's mantle.

Joe Philbin is the least of our problems. I doubt defensive coordinators lose any sleep worrying about any of our offensive players. I remember a mustached coach who will remain nameless that had a top 5 defense and the leading rusher in the NFL and failed to make the playoffs. That's when you worry about the coach. Give Philbin a talented roster and we can more accurately gauge his coaching ability. Unfortunately, we're relying on Ireland to provide that talent which is likely a bigger problem for us than Joe Philbin.

GBOFinFan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You guys think Cleveland would like to have a
> > do-over on Bill Belichick?
> >
> > Oakland with Mike Shanahan?
> >
> > Think the Jags are sorry they showed Tom
> Coughlin
> > the door?
> >
> >
> >
> > Coaches are like anyone else. They learn from
> > their experiences. Especially guys who have
> never
> > been the top dog before at any level.
> >
> > Philbin will be fine. So will Tannehill.
> >
> > Assuming of course that Ireland gets them some
> > weapons to work with.
>
> Good point. But for every one that fits into that
> scenario, there's a loooooong list of head coaches
> that were fired without regret.



That's true.

I could go back further and find other big name coaches but why bother?

There are at least two HALL OF FAME coaches in the league right now who were dumped by teams that did'nt get cut any slack in their first NFL head coaching job.

If that's not reason enough to refute the notion that a rookie head coach can't improve with experience then what is?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/2012 05:32AM by THE Truth.

Is anyone regretting not hiring Bruce Arians when we had the chance?

Philbin may be fine. I hope he doesn't turn out to be a stubborn fool like Sparano. I think HC's need to be able to adapt and learn as opposed to being so set in their ways.

Hopefully we don't have the same problem at HC and OC.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

I'm not sure I fully understand the question. When you reference cutting the same slack, are you saying withhold consequences for the coach's actions like you might for a QB who makes bad decisions or poor throws - i.e. let him coach through his mistakes to become the coach you envision he can be?

For me, it's apples and oranges. Either the HC is the HC or he's fired. The QB can be benched, instructed and brought back...maybe all in the same game or maybe over the course of a couple seasons. That option doesn't exist for HCs. So, in that sense, they can't be cut the same slack.

However, I'm wondering if you're suggesting that the Phins fire Philbin right now or sometime by or right after this season. If you're not suggesting that, what are you suggesting? That either Ireland or Ross tell him to stop allowing long bombs to be thrown at the end of games? Or maybe try to specifically prescribe when long bombs can be used at the end of games (i.e. the last play when you're down by 4 or more or by 3 or less and clearly out of FG range). It would get a little silly, I think.

In the end, I cut him some slack because I think he'll learn from his mistakes (which is what I think you meant) and because I think we're a mentally/emotionally healthier team from the HC down than we have been for years.

If they watched the game tape they should have know what a team can and cannot do. not sure how you can cut them slack

Maybe it's because we suffered through several years of Sparano's mind-numbingly simplistic offense peppered with the wildcat which worked well for one year and then was a liability, but I like Philbin and think he'll be okay. He's smart and if (huge if) we can get him some talented players to work with, I think he will put a winner on the field. Hard to do that with what he's had to work with this year.

Basically we are taking a 6-10 team from 2011 and...

Inserting a rookie QB
Inserting a rookie LT/RT
Inserting a rookie FB
Inserting a rookie PR/KR
Inserting a rookie at backup DE, DT, WR

Removing a Pro Bowl WR.
Removing a HOF DE
Removing 2 starting CB's

Replacing the offensive scheme as well as the defensive scheme...

and blaming the HC and rookie QB for not fixing everything in the first year.

We may need to give him another year.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

colonel Wrote:
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> Mike Sherman is doing the play calling.
> His approach seems to be misfiring badly, very
> badly.

This doesn't bode well for Tannehill. Sherman was his college coach, and likely the reason why Tannehill is the starter. If anyone knows how to get the most out of Tannehill, it is Sherman.

------------------------------------------------------------

Miami Dolphins. Always Perfect.

It's not about firing until he shows the same consistency at making the same mistake.

Right now he seems to be.

What Kaepernick did yesterday is a perfect example of A SENSIBLE BOLD DARING OUTRAGEOUS PLAY. In a situation where he was expected to hand off the ball and run down the clock, he pulls the ball out of the belly of the running back and takes off for a touchdown.

But guess what????? They were ahead and if he had been tackled, then they would have been in no worse position than an incomplete pass but probably better because the clock would have kept running forcing us to use one of our precious timeouts.

Bold, daring, but really no risk.

But what do you say about our four bombs which EVEN IF ONE OF THEM HAD SUCCEEDED would have done nothing but left time on the clock for the Niners to kick the winning field goal??????????????????

Right now, Philbin is showing that he is just as bad IN BEING RECKLESS AS SPARANO WAS AS BEING TOO CONSERVATIVE.

So to answer your question, what did we do with Sparano? We fired him BECAUSE HE REFUSED TO LEARN.

Why shouldn't Philbin suffer the same fate if he refuses to learn????

Yes I cut him some slack. But it's about over. After one full season he should know what he has and figure out how to use it to get better.

The thing that bothers me about Philbin AND our team this year is not the record or missing the playoffs, it's about what we expected right?

What is troubling is that if your on an upswing it should start bad then improve to where you are playing better at the end of the season then the begging. I can't really say we are.

And keep in mind I am not on him about the performance of the players. There I DO BELIEVE THAT ALL COACHES SHOULD BE CUT SOME SLACK.

The only thing you can blame a coach about with respect to player mistakes is when the player commits the same penalty over and over again.

What I'm talking about is game strategy.

The coach has to hold himself to a higher level then his players. He needs to make himself and his other coaches accountable to the team.. Otherwise the leadership is frail... If he wants his players to hold each other accountable and themselves responsible to the team, he better address his own mistakes and shortcomings in the same way... The problem with this team IMO, were shortcomings at GM, coaching and playcalling at times, and inconsistent play at the QB position... If we want to improve next year we need to be much better in all 3 areas, personnel, coaching, and QB play. It is not a good sign that our offense has seemed to regress as the season goes on.. That is a poor reflection on the coaching IMO..

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> What Kaepernick did yesterday is a perfect example
> of A SENSIBLE BOLD DARING OUTRAGEOUS PLAY.

We should have drafted Kaepernick. Not Philbin's fault, but arguably Irelands.

Kaepernick will be better than Tannehill. And he was gotten with a lower draft pick. Our GM is to blame.

------------------------------------------------------------

Miami Dolphins. Always Perfect.

First off, I am not dissatisfied with Tannehill. I am dissatisfied with the play calling especially in the 4th quarter of games. In earlier games this season I saw things, plays that looked odd, but gave the OC the benefit of the doubt. However, I still see the same kind of foolish calls being made.

When the receiving corps is limited in going deep, and the team needs to move the ball to score, don't gamble at trying to hit a hole in one on a par 5. Work you way down field. This of course requires runs and catches being made. The OC seems to abandon this repeatedly. This is impetus behavior, trying to score with one big play when the team is wanting of real play makers.

I am not happy with Mike Sherman, notwithstanding that he knows Tannehill better than anyone. At this stage in the season, Tannehill needs to do more with his mobility to get those 3rd down conversions. He can pass on the run and we need to see him do that with the WRs we have. Move the ball incrementally. Patience, not desperation.

I'm deferring making judgment on Joe Philbin. However, if he sees what we all see, he's the HC and is charged with correcting the long, foolish passes to 4 and 5th depth WRs that his former mentor Mike Sherman is calling. He needs to fix this now. Those pass plays were ridiculous.

What I'm hearing is that he should be fired if he continues to make the same mistakes again and again. And I hear that the slack period is 1 year. So, I guess he better get it straightened out fast.

I know we fired Cam after just one season, but he absolutely lost the team. Josh McDaniels didn't make it through 2 in Denver and Raheem Morris only made 3 in TB and one was a 10-6 year in a tough division that year. Steve S got 3 in STL. Maybe I need to get my head around the idea that in today's NFL there's probably a 1-year grace period for coaches, then it's year to year until you've firmly established yourself. And even then there are no guarantees.