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Which WR would you want Miami to pursue?

	Victor Cruz
	Greg Jennings
	Other (please specify)
	No FA WR, only build WR corps through draft.

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So Victor Cruz and Greg Jennings are both currently scheduled to be FA next off season. Both will probably be resigned but stranger things have happened. Who would you choose to go after or would you rather have someone like Dwayne Bowe or would you rather only build through the draft? Assume contract demands somewhere between what Vincent Jackson and Desean Jackson got last off season.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2012 06:03PM by dolphin1423.

Victor Cruz is awesome, but he is often injured...

It makes sense to build through the draft for several reasons, not the least of which is the cost of signing an elite FA wr.

I think that of the potential top tier FA WR's Greg Jennings is the most likely to be available and to interest Philbin and Sherman.

Green Bay has a history of letting guys walk and not overpaying them. They already have Nelson and Jones and Randall Cobb has exploded this year.

There's a real good chance Jennings hits the open market. He fits the system to a tee and has a relationship in place with these guys already.

I'd have no issues with signing Jennings, Wallace, or Bowe. But I don't see Cruz making it to the open market.

One interesting short term option who might not be too expensive is Wes Welker.

I think whether or not we invest a lot in a WR is dependent upon our decisions with our own free agents. If we let Jake Long leave, we will be more likely to sign a WR and then use our top pick on an OT.

the truth said it....i makes sense to build through the draft......and eesti....said it too greg jennings will be 30 soon...


I was thinking both things.


Its not like tannehill will be getting old soon........he is like 22 or 23......we have a lot of time to get him the receivers he needs.

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Greg Jennings will be 30 years old next season and
> may be breaking down. He just had abdominal
> surgery and has only started 2 games this year.
> Not sure I would pay top dollar for a 30 yr old
> WR.
>
> I'm not sure Bowe fits the "Philbin mold". He
> seems to be problematic at times.
>
> Welker is goin got be 32 but is probably really QB
> friendly. He may take less to play in Miami an
> exact a little revenge on NE who originally tried
> to stonewall him and phase him out this year.
>
> Bowe is not a precise route runner, so he's not
> always going to be where he is supposed to be.
> That has resulted in many passes that should have
> been completed but were incomplete, dropped or
> tipped for an interception. Bowe is also not a
> natural receiver. He frequently fights the ball as
> he attempts to catch it
>
>
> I like Cruz and Wallace but we have a lot of drat
> picks next year and can get a rookie a lot cheaper
> (and younger).
>
> I think we may be better off signing a FA TE next
> year. There are plenty out there who could help
> out tremendously and probably come a little
> cheaper than WR.
>
> There also seems to be a shortage of TE's and an
> abundance of WR's, CB's and S's in the top of the
> draft.
>
> Fred Davis, Jared Cook, Dustin Keller, Heath
> Miller, Delanie Walker
>
> I'd like to see us spend two high picks on WR and
> CB or even a S
>
> With a 1, 2a, 2b, 3a, 3b...
>
> that still leaves us with 2 or 3 high picks to
> grab...
>
> an extra CB or an O-lineman or a DE.


I think Jennings or Welker as 30+ wr's would be short term fixes just to accelerate Tannehill's development.

I look at it this way:

We need two WR's that are better than Hartline and Bess.

If we draft both those guys it will be a year or two...or even three... before they have the type of impact that pushes Hartline and Bess down the depth chart.

That's why I think we sign one WR and draft another.

Jennings and Welker are older, more cost effective short term options that would instantly be out #1 wr. Wallace would be a great get also but will be more expensive since he's only 26.

One of those guys as our #1 would enable us to draft a guy with one of our first 5 picks and bring him along at a steady pace.

I like the idea of signing a FA TE but there are a couple of TE's in this draft I'd be happy selecting.

I think my wishlist for our first 5 picks at this point is:

OT, WR, CB, pass rusher, OG so if I can get a TE in free agency it makes a lot of sense.

Some good points Truth. I like the idea of Jennings as a stopgap but he will command a five year contract, probably, so I'm not sure that really is a stopgap. I think Jennings really wants to stay in GB but if they don't want him maybe he would give us a slight discount to reunite with Philbin?

Cruz would be the gem of this FA class if he hits the market, which is highly unlikely I agree. He is young, would fit any system (he would fit ours remarkable well with his route running, hands, and YAC ability), and has got serious skills.

I do like the idea of signing Jennings then drafting a WR to bring along but I think we should draft two WR in the first 3 rounds to double our chances of finding a legit #2 WR plus giving us great depth and flexibility at the position if both pan out.

I'm not a fan of any of the FA TE. Some are no doubt more explosive than Fasano but they also seem highly inconsistent. I'd rather keep taking shots in the draft and see if we can't get a stud eventually.

It's too bad Parcells isn't running another NFL team then we could franchise Jake Long and trade him to that team for their 1st round pick. As it is, I think Long stays on a team friendly deal or gets tagged and traded. Ireland has a way of handling these situations very well.

Good wishlist Truth but I'd like to see Vernon, Shelby, and Odrick develop a little more before we spend another high pick on a pass rusher so I'd rather double up on WR. Also, I'd like to see us take a LB for when Dansby or Burnett leaves or regresses with age. CB is top priority for me with WR close behind. I agree on plucking a promising OG as insurance if John Jerry falters in his development.

The draft.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

dolphin1423 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some good points Truth. I like the idea of
> Jennings as a stopgap but he will command a five
> year contract, probably, so I'm not sure that
> really is a stopgap. I think Jennings really
> wants to stay in GB but if they don't want him
> maybe he would give us a slight discount to
> reunite with Philbin?


The only thing I'd be concerned about with Jennings is the upfront money. Its really no big deal if we give him a 5 year deal or a 10 year deal for that matter if the signing bonus is minimal and the first few years of the deal have reasonable base salaries. This is the NFL. the length of the deal isn't important. Its the guaranteed money that counts.




>
> Cruz would be the gem of this FA class if he hits
> the market, which is highly unlikely I agree. He
> is young, would fit any system (he would fit ours
> remarkable well with his route running, hands, and
> YAC ability), and has got serious skills.


Yeah, he'd be awesome in our system but I can't see him leaving NY.

Funny thing is, he was almost cut in presaeson two years ago. He was the last WR to make their roster that year and had done little in practice up to that point. A few weeks later he gets in the lineup due to injuries and "boom goes the dynamite".


>
> I do like the idea of signing Jennings then
> drafting a WR to bring along but I think we should
> draft two WR in the first 3 rounds to double our
> chances of finding a legit #2 WR plus giving us
> great depth and flexibility at the position if
> both pan out.


I'm not sure I agree with that. I think bringing in two high draft picks and signing a top tier guy is too much. We already have a few young guys with upside in Moore and Fuller who will need time to develop.


Competition is a good thing so I could see signing one, drafting one in the first 3 rounds and maybe taking a flyer in the late rounds if the right guy is there.


>
> I'm not a fan of any of the FA TE. Some are no
> doubt more explosive than Fasano but they also
> seem highly inconsistent. I'd rather keep taking
> shots in the draft and see if we can't get a stud
> eventually.


That works for me. Re-sign Fasano and look for a guy like Joseph Fauria in the draft to compliment him.



>
> It's too bad Parcells isn't running another NFL
> team then we could franchise Jake Long and trade
> him to that team for their 1st round pick. As it
> is, I think Long stays on a team friendly deal or
> gets tagged and traded. Ireland has a way of
> handling these situations very well.

Hahaha! Parcells owes us for sure. That would be sweet.

I've been in favor of trading Long since January. I said then make him a take it or leave it offer. If he leaves it...trade him while he has value.

Now I don't think we can get much for him if we tagged him after the year and tried to trade him.

Hope he starts playing better....then maybe we get lucky.



>
> Good wishlist Truth but I'd like to see Vernon,
> Shelby, and Odrick develop a little more before we
> spend another high pick on a pass rusher so I'd
> rather double up on WR. Also, I'd like to see us
> take a LB for when Dansby or Burnett leaves or
> regresses with age. CB is top priority for me
> with WR close behind. I agree on plucking a
> promising OG as insurance if John Jerry falters in
> his development.


I think this league has evolved to the point that you can never have too many pass rushers.

Defense is now about making big plays...especially on 3rd down....and less about physically dominating your opponent for the whole game. To do that you need a pass rush. For me they are as valuable on defense as WR's are on offense...you can never have too many good ones.

Its going to be interesting to see what holes open up and which are filled in free agency. That will have some impact on who we take in the first two rounds but we are still at the point in our development where its BPA. I'd really have no problems with our taking a WR, OT, OG, CB, TE, LB or S in the first round.

The only positions that are off the table for me in round one are QB, RB, C, FB and DT.

Yes adding a FA WR would do those things you suggest.

I think if we draft a WR high it has to be very high. The two guys that are projected to slip to 19-20 range are two guys that scare me because they are coming from USC and Tennessee. Not that I know much about them other than that.

The two guys above them (possibly) come from Baylor and California. Keenan Allen and Terrence Williams.

Now I haven't really been studying next years prospects real close but I think if you're going to get one, he has to be able to come in and play immediately ala AJ Green etc. Smart, good work ethic.

Marino, Duper and Clayton all started out together for the most part. Manning and Harrison etc.

Philbin and the Packers have gotten almost all of their productive receivers from the 2nd round and usually those guys do take time to develop. Not that it effects Ireland's strategy but...

Jennings, Nelson, Cobb were all 2nd rounders. Jones was a 3rd.

Chances are we would have to trade up to land top talent at WR so maybe we go CB in the first round this year. It is our biggest weakness. We just gave up over 400 yards passing so..

Wallace and a 1st round CB sound good to me.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

I'm keeping an open mind. While it would be best to build through the draft, I like to look at history for this. Some of the best WRs we've ever had came via trades or Free Agency:

Paul Warfield
Irving Fryar
Brandon Marshall
Oronde Gadsden

Meanwhile, for the most part, our highly drafted WRs have typically underachieved for one reason or another:

Tedd Ginn
Chris Chambers
Scott Schwedes
Randal Hill
Yatil Green
O.J. McDuffee (injuries limited his career)
Derek Hagan
Pat Turner
Clyde Gates

Duper and Nat Moore were definitely worth their picks, but too many ended up as busts.

Too many drafted by bad personnel people were busts....

Gates is still young. Turner didn't work out but he was a 3rd.

Chambers was a late 2nd and not bad for that. He is actually talking about returning to the NFL.

Gadsden (one of my favs) was found in the Arena League.

WR is definitely a hard one to hit on but there are teams that do it....Pit for one.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

montequi i think you meant yatil green.......injuries limited his career

Was macduffie ever injured? I dont remember!

I agree with Montequi and what I think eesti is saying and disagree with THE Truth, no surprise there, I think it is much better to get a receiver in free agency than try to do it in the draft, particularly at the stage of history OUR TEAM is in now where we need to put together pieces.

I think of all the positions, drafting a receiver is the most chancy.

In all the history of following Miami Dolphin drafts, I have only wanted us to draft one receiver in the first round, Randy Moss.

I was mad because we traded our pick that day before the draft occurred and we were something like 19 and our management explained that they never thought he would last that long anyway because of his off field problems.

But back to the subject, wide receiver is less translatable to the pros than perhaps any other position. In free agency, you know what you get.

A final factor, we have definite holes on our team we need to fill besides wide receiver.

Reggie is great when he fakes but the NFL now is stocked with short, stubby fast runners who take a ton of defenders to bring down. We've got Daniel Thomas who does not fit that build and Lamar Miller is just another Reggie Bush.

I have not looked at next year's draft but I would say drafting WR would be the wrong way to go because in order for you to meet the need it would have to be first round and you are really gambling on this.

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> montequi i think you meant yatil
> green.......injuries limited his career
>
> Was macduffie ever injured? I dont remember!

Injuries ENDED Yatil's career. McDuffee played on a injury for a couple seasons under JJ and had to retire early because of it. I'm surprised you don't remember. It was a big scandal because the team doctor insisted McDuffee was ok to play, and yet the injury ruined his career.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2012 08:51AM by montequi.

totaly forgot about it monte.

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Too many drafted by bad personnel people were
> busts....
>
> Gates is still young.
Yes, time will tell, but he never developed for us.

> Turner didn't work out but
> he was a 3rd.
Still, 1st 3 rounds.

> Chambers was a late 2nd and not bad for that. He
> is actually talking about returning to the NFL.
Chambers had flashes of greatness, but, for the most part, was never more than a #2 receiver for us. He should-have-been our #1, but he was WAY too inconsistent.

> Gadsden (one of my favs) was found in the Arena
> League.
Agreed. Gadsden was amazing!! The guy had hands the size of watermelons, feet as slow as mollases, and a name no one could spell. He could also jump like a jack rabbit! I'd love to get another guy like him.

> WR is definitely a hard one to hit on but there
> are teams that do it....Pit for one.
I suppose if you count felons.

Actually I don't really have an overall set in stone stance on drafting WR's. I think you just have to get it right if you're going to take one in the top 12. No reaching out of need in other words.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Yeah, but the problem is that, as I said, above it is harder to "get it right" with respect to the draft when it comes to a receiver, even far more than running back, quarterback, linemen, or defensive backs. It's just to hard to be accurate in projecting to the next level.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2012 09:50AM by ChyrenB.

Mike Wallace wood be one hell of a speed weapon with RT's ability to throw the deep ball and his arm strength/accuracy....and he is only 26.

Question is does he fit in a WCO. Is he smart?

I could see the Colts going after him since they have Pit's former OC. ben R said Haley's offense is dink and dunk.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Well there is a mid round OT in the draft from Michigan....another higher rated OT from Tannehills A&M as well.

I would hate to spend another high pick on an OT though.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree with Montequi and what I think eesti is
> saying and disagree with THE Truth, no surprise
> there, I think it is much better to get a receiver
> in free agency than try to do it in the draft,
> particularly at the stage of history OUR TEAM is
> in now where we need to put together pieces.
>
> Huh?


That can only be from CB.

Only he could disagree with me while agreeing with me.

I believe that may be a bad sentence. lol

CB...That's what you get for relying on a legal secretary all those years.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well there is a mid round OT in the draft from
> Michigan....another higher rated OT from
> Tannehills A&M as well.
>
> I would hate to spend another high pick on an OT
> though.


If we lose Long, I'd have no issues with using a high pick on an OT. Not necessarily a 1st but this is a good draft for OT prospects. There isn't that elite consensus can't fail LT prospect but there are a bunch of guys that can play LT or RT at the next level. Could be we look for a RT in the 2nd or 3rd and move Martin to LT if Long leaves.

Either way I think its best to stick to the proven drafting formula used by great GM's like Ron Wolf: Rank your players, trust your draft board and take BPA...only use need to break a tie.

I think our biggest needs right now (in order) are: WR, RG/LG, Pass Rusher(s), TE, CB, MLB, OLB, S.

That order will no doubt change when we see which players we lose and add via free agency. But I'm not going to be upset if we grab BPA at any of those need position. I just don't want to see picks in the first 3 or 4 rounds used on positions we have filled...QB, C, FB, DT...unless some stud takes a lamar miller like plunge on draft day..

If Long leaves, it's a sure thing that Martin gets shifted to LT, his natural position and we fill RT.

If Long is getting so old and is hurting so much, it might be better to make the switch right now.

It is always said that LT is the most crucial position for a QB's sack safety.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2012 10:59AM by ChyrenB.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If Long leaves, it's a sure thing that Martin gets
> shifted to LT, his natural position and we fill
> RT.
>
> If Long is getting so old and is hurting so much,
> it might be better to make the switch right now.
>
While I agree a switch makes sense, the time to have made it should have been the Bye week. The reason our O-Line was so bad under Sparano was because of his constant tinkering during the season. If we switch Long and Martin with only a few days practice, I worry the result will be much worse than we have right now.

True, I was not considering the timing.

However, now that you bring it up, I recommended that it be done in pre-season and was roundly lambasted on this board by people saying that a guy of Jake Long's status would object to being moved.

Now granted, I said it for other reasons, those reasons being that Martin was getting his lunch handed to him at RT and his position is LT but I wonder how things would have turned out had we started the season that way.

Could not have been any worse since we started 1-3.