Yeah this whole bullying thing is out of control... I think my kids are tougher mentally then some of these guys... The new norm in the NFL is to blame somebody else, when things aren't going right for you... Personal accountability in the NFL is a thing of the past, thanks to our buddy J Martin. What a cluster F*ck...

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

and yet Martin is a "hero" to some. to me he's the symbol of what's going wrong with this country.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> and yet Martin is a "hero" to some. to me he's the
> symbol of what's going wrong with this country.

Ain't that the truth

jsm08 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> berkeley223 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > and yet Martin is a "hero" to some. to me he's
> the
> > symbol of what's going wrong with this country.
>
> Ain't that the truth

*******************************************

But, we don't have the whole story. How about we judge Martin, Incognito, et al, once we have the whole story?

captkoi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> But, we don't have the whole story. How about we
> judge Martin, Incognito, et al, once we have the
> whole story?

I know enough to know J Martin handled this horribly and the majority of the blame falls on him.... He has done so much damage to the NFL, and our team in general, for the fact he had issues and never dealt with them properly... And now everyone else but himself is to be blamed and scapegoated for his own failures.... No matter what evidence comes out, that doesn't change....
We are talking about grown men, not little kids...

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> captkoi Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > But, we don't have the whole story. How about
> we
> > judge Martin, Incognito, et al, once we have
> the
> > whole story?
>
> I know enough to know J Martin handled this
> horribly and the majority of the blame falls on
> him.... He has done so much damage to the NFL, and
> our team in general, for the fact he had issues
> and never dealt with them properly... And now
> everyone else but himself is to be blamed and
> scapegoated for his own failures.... No matter
> what evidence comes out, that doesn't change....
> We are talking about grown men, not little kids...

***********************************************

I agree, in that what we have "seen" thus far, Martin handled this whole thing wrong, but before I label or accuse anyone of anything, I prefer to wait for the facts to come out.

I agree with Cap.

Moreover, this "he cussed me out" thing is NOT an example of bullying nor do I think that EVEN THE PLAYER INVOLVED WOULD CLASSIFY IT AS bullying.

I think the press is trying to force this square peg into that round hole as a way of taking advantage of the Martin situation TO SELL MORE NEWSPAPERS (figure of speech of course).

If this CURRENT SITUATION had happened LAST year, nobody would call it bullying.

They would be looking for a racial angle at best. But it's only called bullying BECAUSE OF the Jonathan Martin thing.

captkoi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I agree, in that what we have "seen" thus far,
> Martin handled this whole thing wrong, but before
> I label or accuse anyone of anything, I prefer to
> wait for the facts to come out.


Give me one reason why J Martin deserves this? He is heavy-handed at destroying our organization and season, making accusations against our team and players with out all the facts through press and lawyers... I have zero empathy for people that handle problems by playing the games he is playing... F*ck him IMO...

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Crowder assumptions are a b*tch. Even that Martin is the whole bad guy in this saga.

Look at George Zimmerman. Assumption was he was threatened by a teenage gang member type. Now not only was he arrested last month for domestic violence against his wife but TODAY he was arrested for domestic violence against his NEW girlfriend.

Who was the aggressor, Trayvon?

Chyren I am not making assumptions, I am judging Martin by how he has handled himself, nothing more...

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

But Cap is right. We really don't know all the facts. All we know is that JM walked out of camp and Richie was suspended and we don't even know if JM is making a claim although we know that Richie definitely is.

We are making a pretty good guess that he is making a claim but you don't know that is true.

Chyren I understand your and Cappy's position... I am just saying respect is earned not given... Nothing J Martin has done has earned any respect from me... And as you know, I initially backed Martin... It is everything him or his representatives have done since that dictates my lack of respect for him or his position... I don't care... You don't handle your problems in this manner, no matter what the problems are... He is an educated guy, he is well read... But doesn't understand that? I find that hard to believe... They (Martin and or his representatives) are playing games, working the system to his benefit, no matter the consequences to everyone around our team... Shameful POS IMO..

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Well maybe you can tell me the facts you are talking about.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Crowder assumptions are a b*tch. Even that Martin
> is the whole bad guy in this saga.
>
> Look at George Zimmerman. Assumption was he was
> threatened by a teenage gang member type. Now not
> only was he arrested last month for domestic
> violence against his wife but TODAY he was
> arrested for domestic violence against his NEW
> girlfriend.
>
> Who was the aggressor, Trayvon?

Please tell me that you're joking with this? Nothing in the entire George Zimmerman story relates to what Jonathan Martin and Richie Incognito went through. And the scrutiny he's been under the past year serves no proof as to what happened in February of 2012.

Mone of this has anything in common with the allegations of a referee cussing a player. (If he actually did)

Leaking information to Adam Schefter and using the press to brandish our team... Making a big deal out of a prank he himself has played on other team mates.. But making it out like he was being singled out by it and picked on... Leaking to the press that Incognito exploited $15,000 from him to pay for a trip.. When in reality the whole offensive line does the trip, they all pay for it not just him.. But he backed out at the last minute, and didn't go.. His teammates still made him pay, as they should.. If you and I say we are going on a trip, I make reservations, plane tickets, etc on my credit card as if you are going, then when it is time to pay you say you don't want to go... Are you not responsible to pay the share you had agreed to before you backed out at the last minute... But that was used to make it seem players were exploiting him and singling him out to exploit him
Meeting with coach personally and your family by phone, after you walked out of the team, and never bring up anything about bullying.. SO our organization made a statement, and then you back doored them to look like liars .. When in fact you never mentioned it to them.. Only to Adam Schefter who then spun it to damage the team.... I could go on and on.... He is f*cking bitch a*s punk...

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

why is it only "wait and see" when it comes to Martin? Incog was kicked off the team, no pay, immediately and vilified in the press. Meanwhile Martin yuks it up on the Stanford sideline at full pay and hides behind his lawyer's leaked smears.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Chyren- Richie is not the only one speaking... I listened to Hartline, Tannehill, our HC and others... Not the media... Martin is the one using the media to smear our team from a distance... And you are using that distance as plausible deniability that Martin or his representatives are not behind it... come on... with all due respect that is a BS position to take... All of the smear is coming from Martin or his camp, end of story... The players and HC have only responded to the smear campaign by Martin's camp..
DO you think Philbin is lying on record, you must be crazy...
The players and HC did not leak info to media to bash from a distance.. All they have done is respond in person on the record like the men they are, to the accusations being made from a p*ssy, who is hiding... As Martin is doing plenty of damage to our team from that distance.... Even less respect for the guy... Martin will never step foot in this town again.. He will not be safe from the general public for what he has done to this organization... If Martin stepped foot in this town he will be beat down like the bitch he is, and rightfully so... If I saw him I would spit in his face in a heartbeat...

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2013 02:33PM by Crowder52.

LOL. Whoa! Calm down, Crowder. If Martin gets shot in the back, I'd "like you" for it. Ask Treasure what that means.

Listen, maybe you can site me to ANY comments Philbin made. Any at all.

The only thing I heard was him saying that if there is trouble, he will correct it.

As far as the other teammates are concerned, the only thing I have heard is surprise because they thought these two guys were friends and they saw no bullying. MIND YOU, I heard these comments with a day or so of the blow up.

If you have more recent links, please pm them to me.

Richie basically said the same thing as his teammates that he considers Martin to be a brother and a friend and if any anger was passed in emails, like Martin's emails to him, it came from and was understood by Richie as coming from a comrade.

So ALL I KNOW IS THE FOLLOWING.

1. Martin left the team and checked into a hospital
2. Richie was suspended.

that's all I know, that's all I know, that's all I know.

I HEARD rumors about Martin sitting down at a table and all the players getting up.

STATUS: UNCONFIRMED.

I HEARD rumors that Richie sent a threatening email to him using the N word and threatening to kill his "real" mother.

STATUS: UNCONFIRMED.

Please share these facts you have with me, I'm begging you.

Go back and read your last post. It's all opinion and no citation to facts.

We lawyers want facts before we become Judges.

BTW, where did I ever criticize Philbin for this? Yes, I've been on his back for everything else but outside of my blaming him for being totally unaware, (REMEMBER I posted about the piano player in the Whorehouse who claimed not to know what was happening when the girls took the customers upstairs), but unlike getting on his back for 3rd down or 4th down and 1 yard calls, not getting Sturgis closer for the kicks, having Tannehill back passing and getting sacked and taking us out of field goal range, I have not TOUCHED criticizing him in this episode except as outlined above for being totally disconnected with it.

Chyren- I suggest you go to the teams website under multimedia and look up the player and coaches interviews from about ten days ago.. Everything i said was not a rumor but first hands accounts of what players or the HC said... By the way Richie admitted to sending the text that isn't a rumor... Either is the other stuff i mentioned it is first hand accounts from a player or coach or what has been obviously leaked by Martins camp and either corroborated or put into perspective from guys that were there...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

plus martin's own lawyer essentially confirmed Incog's story that Martin sent him a text "I'll kill you're whole fning family," so this is not a rumor either

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

But all you said was that Martin was a POS who was betraying his team. That's a conclusion and it may eventually be borne out but I asked you to state the facts upon which you base that conclusion. I don't have the facts.

I've heard that the other teammates have said either

a) we are surprised because we thought they were friends or

b) there has been no locker room bullying.

But as far as I know the very basic PREMISE that Martin left because of bullying is all speculation by the press.

Where, besides the Press speculation do you get that info?

everything reported in the press, whether true or not, was leaked by Martin. This team is in a shtstorm because of if it. Jon PTSD MArtin was at the Stanford game the day before the phins were to play a game with the season on the line and down 3 OL starters---at full pay because the team is scared to do anything else because they are afraid he will sue them.
These are facts, not rumor. He's a POS in my book.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> plus martin's own lawyer essentially confirmed
> Incog's story that Martin sent him a text "I'll
> kill you're whole fning family," so this is not a
> rumor either

That was the one fact THAT I DID acknowledge was known because we heard it from Richie's own lips.

What have we heard from Jonathan's lips or EVEN THE LIPS OF HIS LAWYERS as to why he left??????????????????????

yes his lawyer said he left due to emotional distress caused by his teammates

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Cite?