The thing tickles me BNF is that Ireland first picked Jake Long who turned out to be an all-pro but you're all over this board talking about what a slug Jake Long is.

I don't believe Herman was Ireland's in any way shape or pharmaceutical form.

Know what I mean?

Like lets be real in our discussions and use our neurons accordingly. We all know Long was a prototypical Parcells pick and Ireland was in diapers at the time. K?

He gets zero credit. He gets no blame.

Well then what you're saying is that every bad pick under Ireland was really Parcells but every good pick was his own. Therefore, you can never be wrong.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> mizzou15 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Gronkowski was a second round pick, not a find.
> He
> > was a highly rated TE in high shool.Wilson and
> > Clay are finds. Both may pan out. Thomas was a
> > good RB at K St. Irellands not a t fault for
> his
> > concussions. Sorry to see that devellopment
> > because I think he has trade value. I would
> have
> > kept Gates over Armstrong.
> > Kearse was signed off off ou DEV squad by
> Carolina
> > and is still on the roster. So 1 6rnd pk and 2
> 7
> > rnd pks still on nfl rosters that is finding
> > talent.
>
>
> this is a joke, right?


there are so many things wrong with mizzou's post I don't have time to get into it. But his big point---it's OK for Ireland not to have picked Gronk in the 2d round and instead pick Misi because it was OBVIOUS Gronk was going to be a great player (hey he was great in high school and college!) but lets focus on scrubs he picked in the 6th and 7th rounds (who will never sniff a pro bowl or even a starting spot) and the guys he picked and cut and are now bottom-feeders on other teams---is so asinine I really think he is kidding.

You are kidding right?

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

My wife told me it probably went over your head.

In simple terms, how do you explain all the sucky picks on our team (and those we had to get rid of) that Ireland made besides the ones you blame on Parcells (the one of which you mention by the way, Jake Long, who is an all-pro Just last bowl season)???????

If you don't have any explanation, I suggest you refrain from attacking anyone who criticizes Ireland.

I think you have to judge a GM by the overall body of work. Not just by the draft although the draft is not terrible if you want to compare with the rest of the league.

Our starting O and D are composed of 11 players drafted since 2008.

2 are undrafted FA's and the other 8 are FA signings.

That leaves 1 player from a previous regime. (Soliai, who was a disappointment but Ireland had enough insight to coninue to groom)

This does not include our ST's players like K, P, KR, PR, LS which were all (but 1) acquired by Ireland. 1 from each group (1 FA, 1 UFA, 1 holdover, 1 drafted)

There are also other heavy contributors for Miami that could probably start elsewhere. Lamar Miller, Gaffney, Matt Moore, McDaniel as well as up and comers who we just don't know about yet.

Other things you need to keep in mind whether you want to or not...

Parcels was the boss for at least the first two years and his fingerprints were all over it. He followed a certain "standard" that you can see Ireland is no longer adhering to. (size restrictions, etc)

Ireland was saddled with coaches that Parcels hired and his mistake in that regard was probably hanging on to Sparano (and Henning) a year longer than he had to. In his defense, he is looking pretty good right now for the coaches he hired. That also figures into Ireland's equation.

Now you have to look at our team TODAY. Look across the board at our starters. We have no glaring weakness. The players and positions we thought were weaknesses are stepping up big time....

RT, Hartline, Jerry, Martin, Jones, Misi etc.

It may be time to put the past behind us and look forward. At least offer a reprieve until the fat lady sings.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Pro Bowl doesn't mean much. Especially if you look at McCourty. He's not that good. He has been getting drilled for bad play in the media lately. He basically had a good rookie year if you just look at int's. He played in a secondary that ranked 30th in the league in passing.

The fact that Ryan Mathews went to a Pro Bowl proves that point even further. Even if he was an alternate. 1091 yards and 6 TDs gets you to a PB? Talk about being hard up.

I see what your saying but your still ignoring certain events that I listed above and going back to the same argument.

Your evaluating based only on previous drafts where he wasn't even in charge and saddled with coaches who didn't have a clue how to develop talent. You're also not mentioning this years draft.

Your also picking and choosing one draft by BB for comparison. Look at some of his other drafts. Not to good. 2009 tanked. 2008=1 player

Obviously it takes time to rebuild from the state we were in back in 2007. Parcels and his outdated ideas set us back even further.

You are right. Ireland needs to draft better and if this year is any indication. He is. It will certainly help his average and o/a body of work.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Cheryl, it just seems so often your sole intent here is to be a pain in the ass.

You're incessantly looking to argue and fly off about stuff that folks aren't even talking about. That and you've always got a crusade going on. It's either Henne or the Wildcat or now Ireland and you're like a nasty dog with his bone. You just keep growling and won't let go for nothing. I mean is this really fun for you?

I'm just NOT going to get into a dog chasing its tail debate with you. For the longest time I just ignored every word you posted and I guess for the sake of tranquility I'll just do the same again.

Ireland has been a mixed bag but I believe he's trending in the right direction. That's all I've got on the subject. But it obvious his drafts are still "developing" so you can't make any absolute definitive judgments (micro-minded opinions) about the outcome because the outcome is a dynamic equation at this point. Ya know, players are starting to ramp-up their game. And even dudes like Clay, Egnew and Jimmy Wilson are "projects under construction" and no one knows for sure what their NFL career is going to evolve into (or if they bust-out of the league in a year or so).

Cheryl? Oh, I forgot, again with the Gay come-ons._/fn. The fact is that I agree with parts of your last paragraph. That is, insofar as he has made good picks like Long and Pouncey as well as bad picks. You do too with the exception of your weird hatred of Long. Maybe he rejected a come on from you? But overall given the busts, I'd rather have a GM who does better in later rounds than just does the obvious in his first round picks. I'd get rid of him.



footnote: Not that there's anything wrong with that if that's your bag.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2012 10:09AM by ChyrenB.

eesti- to be electedto the probowl you have to have been one of the best players at your position that year... If it is no big deal, why havent we been able to do it? My point is when the GM in your division is drafting 3 in 4 rds of one draft. But our GM has one in 5 complete drafts... That is not very good by comparision.. our competition has 3 in 4 rds of one draft....Big big difference... I guess Mcourty is a bonus pick when you draft Gronk and Aaron Hernandez in rd 2 and 4...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2012 10:40AM by Crowder52.

Eesti- Ireland has been our GM for five years, I am not going to guess who picked who, Parcells says Ireland... You Ireland defenders deny although he was our GM for those years, any accountability to our draft picks... I think that is laughable.... sorry I do....

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

I decided to check all the Dolphins players that made the Pro-Bowl since Ireland took over and who brought them in:

Jake Long (Ireland)
Brandon Marshall (Ireland)
Dan Carpenter (Ireland)
Randy Starks (Ireland)
Cam Wake (Ireland)
Joey Porter (Mueller)
Ronnie Brown (Saban)
John Denney (Saban)

Could it have been more? Sure, but he seems to have done better than the guys that preceded him.

Montequi- you forgot SOlia under Mueller, I agree, he hasnt been horrible, and at the begining of this topic I pointed that out as well.. What really sucks about the guys who preceded him, is they both whiffed on 1st rd picks, same with Wanstedt... Jason Allen, Ted Ginn,...ROnnie Brown number 2 overall, wasnt horrible but we didnt resign him...And #2 overall for a RB seems like an outdated approach that didnt serve us well...
In My opinion, I liked all of our teams 1st rd picks while he has been Gm, after that I dont like it... He did better with 7th rders and FA then he did with second and third rd picks it seems...
If the right GM came along, I would defintely think long and hard about it, but I wouldnt fire him without a replacement lined up, and that doesnt include Carl Peterson...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2012 11:53AM by Crowder52.

That is also why I am so scared about Ireland in this draft, we have 2 seconds and 2 thirds, which Ireland hasnt exactly set the roster on fire picking in those rds... So it terrifies me how those picks will go this year under Ireland...
All I can hope is we package the picks together to get another 1st rder, I can live with what he has done in the first rd, although he has passed up some studs, like at #15 Jason Piere Paul in the above mentioned draft...WIth no excuse Pierre Paul grew up in south fla and went to College at univ of south fla in tampa... That guy shouldnt have slipped by our staff...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Question....


Ireland has been here for how long?


And he hasnt picked a qb in the first round for the entire time hes been here....

Maybe philbin has a saying in who gets picked in the draft since we finnaly picked a qb in the first round.

That or ireland knew if he didnt draft a qb in the first round this year......It was his butt out the door..

I think ireland lucked out with tannehill..either way.....He is one lucky SOB.

I think the smartest thing Ireland did with drafting Tannehill was the hiring of Mike Sherman and using the same system he used in college... It almost seems that had to be his plan all along, which I will give it to him, extremely creative and sharp move to increase the likelihood of success with the system and QB... I know we were supposedly in talks with the Rams for the RG3 pick before the Redskins over paid... But it seems to me with how everything has worked out that Ireland had to have been planning this entire move of Philbin, Sherman, Tannehill. You have to even wonder if he hired Philbin becasue he could get Sherman without him being his HC.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To make it simple, besides Jake Long, and our
> kickers, this team has not drafted one probowl
> players since Ireland has been our GM... I give
> Ireland credit for Jake Long..... So IMO, the guy
> has drafted one probowler in 5 years..... To give
> you reference in between our 2010 #12 pick and the
> #28 we traded back for... The number 12 pick Ryan
> Mathews went to a probowl last year. SO did earl
> Thomas #14 and Jason Piere Paul #15, Maurkice
> Pouncey #18, Jermaine Gresham #21 and Devin
> Mcourty #27...
> To give you reference the Patriots and Belicheck
> first 3 out of 4 draft picks in 2010 were all
> probowlers in less then 2 years.... Mcourty, Gronk
> and Aaron Hernadez..... ouch..... so yes Ireland's
> record comparatively is not very impressive....


but what about Jimmy Williams and the players who we cut who currently suck but are still in the league on other teams??

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

I will say this: A good QB covers up a lot of problems. It looks like Ireland did finally bring us our QB, I'd say he earned a lot of good will with that one, maybe even enough to cover up his prior bonehead moves. So from that aspect I won't go ballistic if we keep him around. But with so many valuable picks upcoming, I really think we need to get someone in here who actually has success (or been around) success in the draft. That's why I want to bring in the #2 in BAL or GB or somewhere like that.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> DolfanKing Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Free rein?
> >
> > Seriously?
>
>
> Uuum Yeah? Who is going to keep an eye on him?
> Ross? J-Lo's ass knows more about football then
> Ross. He was hired to be the GM. You either have
> confidence in him or you don't. But no one in the
> Dolphins Organization is really qualified to keep
> an eye one him.And that would defeat the purpose
> of his Job. If there is someone qualified to
> question him , then they need to be the GM.


Well thank you for backing me up about Ross not knowing what the heck he is doing....

This really is the problem. The GM cannot be trusted and the owner doen't know how to keep an eye on him.

------------------------------------------------------------

Miami Dolphins. Always Perfect.

berk wrote; I will say this: A good QB covers up a lot of problems.


You do not need to say anything else. You said it all right there.

Think about it for a second folks.

1. A good QB keeps his own defense fresh

2. A good QB cuts time off the clock

3. A good QB make hartline look like a pro bowler..

4. A good Qb makes everybody else around him better including the OL because he is able to move in the pocket.

5. A good QB makes the rb better because opposing defenses cant put an extra defender close to the LOS to kill the run because they have to worry about the passing attack.................
.......................................You know like they used to do with henne everybody played closed to the LOS because they werent afraid
of henne and his passing attack...


6...And there is many more insert yours here...


Do you think its a coinsidence that we are almost leqading the league in rushing or close to the top anyways..

Opposing defenses already notice tannehills talent on film and they have to adjust according to it...

I think reggie bush is going to have a monster year if he can finnally get healthy.

Think about it.

Another knock on Ireland has been the trading away of high profile players....Marshall, Davis etc.

He gave up two 2nd round picks for Marshall. He got back two 3rd round picks (after 2 years of production). This is a net loss (value chart) of about 525 points depending on where the Bears pick next year. (I assumed 22nd).

He spent a 1st on Vontae and got back a second (after 3 yrs of production). This is a net loss of around 260 points (assuming getting pick 44).

What some fail to mention or realize is that we also got Reggie Bush for Jonathon Amaya and a swap of 6 round picks which equates to about 20 points total. Bush was the 2nd overall pick which is 2600 points. This is a net gain of 2580 points.

So add up the Marshall and Vontae (who was a second stringer) trades and any others you can think of and we are still ahead by about 1800 points which equates to about the 4th overall pick in a draft.

We have Bush who has been great. We got rid of two head cases who's head case drama can't even be measured for the effects it has on the locker room and the negativity it brings.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

SamSam- it can be said-

1) A good defense helps a young QB, gives him shortened fields, keeps the points the QB needs to score lower or less pressure to score on every drive

2) A good running back helps out a young QB, forces the defense to put more defenders in the box or dedicated to stop the run. Also keeps the defense guessing by opening up the play action, that Tannehill likes to run, without an effective running game the play action doesnt work...

3) A good ST helps a young QB, like our punter, who helps us win the field position battle

4) A good offensive line helps a young QB, by protecting him, and getting push in the running game

All of the relationships are symbiotic, it is not one sided , think about it...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/13/2012 07:47AM by Crowder52.

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SamSam- it can be said-
>
> 1) A good defense helps a young QB, gives him
> shortened fields, keeps the points the QB needs to
> score lower or less pressure to score on every
> drive
>
> 2) A good running back helps out a young QB,
> forces the defense to put more defenders in the
> box or dedicated to stop the run. Also keeps the
> defense guessing by opening up the play action,
> that Tannehill likes to run, without an effective
> running game the play action doesnt work...
>
> 3) A good ST helps a young QB, like our punter,
> who helps us win the field position battle
>
> 4) A good offensive line helps a young QB, by
> protecting him, and getting push in the running
> game
>
> All of the relationships are symbiotic, it is not
> one sided , think about it...


Agreed...........good point.......and also a good punter helps greatly in field position....Like yesterday against the rams.....we might have the best punter in the league.

Its a team sport...

Just one thing....


How about when we had a great defense and the offense couldnt stay on the field so the defense got tired and couldnt stop anyone at the end of the games.

IMO the most important thing in a team is the QB and the offense...After that everything settles itself.