For all the stress on finding WRs and focusing on our offense, after watching the last couple of weekends, it's clear to me our defense is not close to championship caliber, either. Who else rushes the passer besides Wake? Where are the big hitters? Where are the players who always seem to be in the right place at the right time? Where are the defenders who can make a game changing play? Where is the tight coverage? Where are the guys who can make INTs?

We still have plenty of work to do on both sides of the ball.

Yup but like someone else on this board put it, Ireland's future is tied to Tannehill and if he doesn't get Tannehill a weapon that results in Tannehill performing in a way that is a major improvement over this year, he's heading out the door no matter how many games we lose by say 13-10.

If he doesn't go big on offense in the draft, he's signing his own execution warrant.

dolfanmark Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For all the stress on finding WRs and focusing on
> our offense, after watching the last couple of
> weekends, it's clear to me our defense is not
> close to championship caliber, either. Who else
> rushes the passer besides Wake? Where are the big
> hitters? Where are the players who always seem to
> be in the right place at the right time? Where are
> the defenders who can make a game changing play?
> Where is the tight coverage? Where are the guys
> who can make INTs?
>
> We still have plenty of work to do on both sides
> of the ball.

Mark you're a smart guy, have you noticed the over's in all of theses games? What D's have blown you away the last few weeks??????????????

dolphaholic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dolfanmark Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > For all the stress on finding WRs and focusing
> on
> > our offense, after watching the last couple of
> > weekends, it's clear to me our defense is not
> > close to championship caliber, either. Who else
> > rushes the passer besides Wake? Where are the
> big
> > hitters? Where are the players who always seem
> to
> > be in the right place at the right time? Where
> are
> > the defenders who can make a game changing
> play?
> > Where is the tight coverage? Where are the guys
> > who can make INTs?
> >
> > We still have plenty of work to do on both
> sides
> > of the ball.
>
> Mark you're a smart guy, have you noticed the
> over's in all of theses games? What D's have blown
> you away the last few weeks??????????????

Look at the pass rushes. Look at the physical play. Look at the number of guys in positions to make plays. The Ravens physically wore down the Pats yesterday. And the 49ers made adjustments after a bad first half. When you see these teams hit and how many different guys make plays, it makes me realize we aren't there yet.

Don't get me wrong, it also highlights how far we have to go on offense, too. Those were all good defenses out there this weekend, but the offenses are good enough to score against good defenses. Our offense is a LONG way from being able to do that. But, our needs for playmakers extends beyond offense. We need more on defense, too.

The Ravens really did hit hard yesterday. One of the Pats RBs made the mistake of lowering his head at the end of one of his runs last night--he got knocked out as a result. And amazingly, the refs did not call an illegal hit after that or any of Brady's knockdowns during the game.

Welker got knocked around a bit too. Again, no personal foul penalties as a result. The Patsies and their fans at home were surprised by the lack of friendly yellow flags, I'm certain. In fact I'm willing to bet they went home thinking the refs helped cost them the game.

There was one play where Brady was flushed out of the pocket, and was running for a first down...he chickened out and threw an incompletion instead (it may even have been one of his iNTs) because he saw a defender bearing down on him. He may have even made it to the first down marker, but he knew he was going to be hit so he threw a hurried pass (unsuccessfully) as a result.

This is the type of defense we need on the phins. Physical and intimidating.

I've asked this question before, but if you added a shut down corner and a ferocious pass rusher to what we already have, where would our D be? That can be added in one off season particularly with the cap room and number of picks we have.

dolfanmark Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For all the stress on finding WRs and focusing on
> our offense, after watching the last couple of
> weekends, it's clear to me our defense is not
> close to championship caliber, either. Who else
> rushes the passer besides Wake? Where are the big
> hitters? Where are the players who always seem to
> be in the right place at the right time? Where are
> the defenders who can make a game changing play?
> Where is the tight coverage? Where are the guys
> who can make INTs?
>
> We still have plenty of work to do on both sides
> of the ball.


Couldn't agree with you more Mark.

It will take an improved offense to make us a legit playoff contender every year. On top of that we need a defense that can make plays against the better offenses in the league to contend for a title.

That's why this isn't a 1 year fix. Its going to take two really good off-seasons in a row to get to where we all want to go.

the truth wrote: Its going to take two really good off-seasons in a row to get to where we all want to go.

We've been saying that for a long long time now.

The way to beat the cheats has been the same formula for years. You simply bully them and beat them down like the closet bottoms they collectively are.

The Lady is a "very good vaginal football coitusback" (VGVFC) when she has time to polish her nails in the pocket. But if you knock her on her ass a few times, or expose her profound LACK of basic athleticism, she wilts like fresh chopped cilantro under a heat lamp.

I agree with the premise D-Mark is trying to point out, our defense has holes in it, we can't ignore them, but our defense is a lot farther along right now than our offense. San Fran just put up 28 pts against the Falcons to go to the Super Bowl.......we held them to 27 earlier this year. Plus, like someone pointed out in another thread, Ireland can produce a top 5 D, but if the offense (Tannehill) doesn't improve, he'll be a goner. Expect a heavy dose of Offense in FA/draft. Having said that, i'd have no problem taking a stud defensive game changer @ #12 if one fell to us.

Ultimately, really good D and really good O are based on a symmetry in the fact they support each other in a total team concept.

The fact the cheats get a jump on so many teams helps their D hide their core deficiencies. Our O did VERY LITTLE all year to help the D -- in fact the "symmetry" was essentially one sided and hence unbalanced. And that's the key premise: BALANCE.

Really good football teams have "it" (in all 3 phases of the game) and most teams don't.

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the truth wrote: Its going to take two really good
> off-seasons in a row to get to where we all want
> to go.
>
> We've been saying that for a long long time now.


True, but that doesn't change the fact that its not a one year fix. Even so, each circumstance is different and not necessarily connected.

The difference now, is we actually have a young QB to build around. In the past we didn't. As I argued then, building up a team around a vacant QB spot is a poor way to build a team. No we aren't faced with doing it arse backwards.

The reason this is going to likely take two more years to put together is that we are converting our offense from a plodding physical offense to a faster, west coast offense at the same time we are flipping our defense to 4-3 from a 3-4. That's an entire roster to overhaul.

Hopefully Tannehill is as good as Ireland thinks he is and we all hope he is. Without that piece in place we will be looking at the possibility of tearing it all down and starting from scratch again when Ireland is fired.

The truth it might take less time to build this team into a contender now that we have a good Qb in place...or at least we think we have one.

but i still think its going to take more than 2 years.

We are on the right track though now that we have something to build around as apposed to before.

I don't think it will be more than two years. I think with a few moves we are two games better in 2013 at least.

I agree about the defense needing play makers but the core is there. We just need to fill in with a few key players (easier said than done?). The needs are much greater on offense. We can win with the defense we have if the offense just scores more points. We could have been a 10-11 win team this year if not for just a few measley points.

#1 we need more int's in the secondary.
#2 we need more pass rush opposite Wake.

Each position compliments each other. Add one and the other gets better by way of default.

We can add a player like Jairus Byrd or Dashon Goldson at FS. I think Byrd comes cheaper but he is still a ball magnet. Teamed up with Rashad Jones and we some damn good safeties.

I am not sure about Olivier Vernon as a pass rusher since he disappeared late in the year....typical freshman wall or ??? Could be.

I would not be upset if we added a DE or CB at 12 if the talent is there. I think we are in greater need of a stud CB who can actually catch the ball. Time for Sean Smith to walk. We need at least two CB's depending on what happens with Marshall and Patterson.

We have very good LBer's but no big time play makers. Like TheTruth says...it may take more than one off season but that is to take us to the elite level. We can still be competitive with what we have in our front 7.

We also need to resign Starks or sign Henry Melton in FA and one more DT for depth to replace McDaniel.

Offensive needs take precedence IMO. RT, OG, WR, WR, TE, TE.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

The cupboard on defense is not bare. But, championship caliber? Not there.

We need at least two more pass rushers. Maybe Odrick can still emerge as one of them, but we need two more guys who can put consistent pressure on.

A ball hawking FS would be nice. But, how many corners do we need? Again, I am talking championship caliber defense. Do we have two starting corners who can contest plays to Pro Bowl caliber receivers? Do we have a slot corner who can at least hold his own against the best slow receivers? I'm sorry, Sean Smith has had 4 years, and he still can't catch INTs, and he has almost no awareness of the ball in the air. It's not going to change. Corners either have that awareness, or they don't. And he doesn't. I didn't see enough of Marshall or Patterson to know. I think CB is a major, major need. Two of them.

Need to take DE in round 2-4 take a WR or 2 and via FA or draft take a kam chancellor(passed on him) like, nasty big hitting DB

Phillip Thomas, Xavier Rhodes, Dave Amerson,Matt Elam, Shawn Williams

please do not use WE so generally in "We think we have a good QB."

I do not.

Hope I am wrong.

I did notice that the other defenses have 4-5 guys around the ball. We typically have 1 or 2. And our Safties do not knock the snot out of guys like other safties.

dolphin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> please do not use WE so generally in "We think we
> have a good QB."
>
> I do not.
>
> Hope I am wrong.

Don't worry, dolphin. I NEVER think of YOU when someone says WE.

WEE in french means yes....


I wounder how you say No in french.

I'd like to take a chance on honey badger if he is there in the 4th

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the truth wrote: Its going to take two really good
> off-seasons in a row to get to where we all want
> to go.
>
> We've been saying that for a long long time now.

**********************************************************

Agreed, we have been saying that for a long time now, but....

This is the key offseason in quite a few years. This could mean Ireland's job if he doesn't get it right. He has (basically) admitted as much in his recent interviews at the Senior Bowl.

If Ireland gets canned, what will happen with Philbin? A new GM generally comes in and wants his own people.

Ireland and Philbin both better put a winner on the field this coming season. Their first major step is free agency--will they get that #1 playmaker? (By that, I mean Wallace as I don't see any other bonified playmakers out there).

So Yes, I agree with Truth in that with this offseason (if the choices are good ones) it will take a good two years to jell. This season I would expect to have a winning season with the team playing well in every game, and the following season seeing the players come together and form a good, winning nucleus and challenging for the Division.

Ireland has messed up so many times and philbin has not.


It might be the second option chren.

And the coaching staff, in one year, has seen the improvement of a few players that have failed to take the next step under the previous staff.

Brian Hartline, Reshad Jones, John Jerry, Koa Misi, Chris Clemons

Players that have declined....Charles Clay, Sean Smith.

I think it would be a lot easier to find a new GM that would want to work with Philbin than it would be to find a quality HC that would want to work with Ireland.

Unfortunately if Ireland fails this off season, many of the up and coming GM's and personnel people have been scooped up by other teams this year. Pickens will be slim.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

If the GM gets fired, the coach isn't far behind (unless your name is Rex Ryan). Their fates are tied together

For some reason Ross has confidence in Ireland or he would not have entrusted him to an offseason with 45 million dollars to spend. Ireland says the fact that we have the money is no accident and that it was very calculated.

Why he didn't bother to replace our WR and CB last year is beyond me but he says he has a plan for this year. He didn't like the available players last year? Maybe. He knew who was going to be available this year as comparison? Most likely. He would have to...but then again he spent a pretty big chunk of JR's money on another teams "trash" and valued it as treasure (Dimitri).

I am curious as to why Ross met with the scouting consultant. Was it for them to work with Ireland or for Ross to have some frame of reference for Ireland's personnel plan. What I wouldn't give to take a look at Ireland's draft board/FA rankings right now.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Why he didn't bother to replace our WR and CB last
> year is beyond me but he says he has a plan for
> this year. He didn't like the available players
> last year? Maybe. He knew who was going to be
> available this year as comparison? Most likely. He
> would have to...but then again he spent a pretty
> big chunk of JR's money on another teams "trash"
> and valued it as treasure (Dimitri).
>

What big chunk of JR's money? He cost the Fins about $380k, as they only had to pay him two game checks, out of a 2.95M yearly salary. And he as no guaranteed money on the books for next season, so can be cut at no cost.

If anyone thinks the Dolphins organization was building to be competitive in 2012, it's crazy. So, why worry about replacing Marshall or Davis immediately? They had a new head coach who has a totally different philosophy than the old regime. Bill Parcells believed in bigger players, all across the field. He believed in a physical running game that sets up play action passing, behind a straight ahead man to man blocking scheme. He believed in a 3-4 defense with the pass rushers at LB, big run stuffing DEs, and traditional safeties. The new coaching staff wants quicker, more athletic players. They believe in the West Coast offense, which depends heavily on the pass, spreads the defense horizontally, and uses a zone blocking scheme. Kevin Coyle believes in a 4-3 defense, with pass rushers at DE, more versatile LBs, and safeties that can be interchangeable.

You know what that means? It means a good chunk of the roster is made up of the wrong kind of players. That takes time to fix. When they hired Philbin and drafted Tannehill, 2012 became a rebuilding year. It became about stockpiling draft picks and salary cap space. And guess what? It's going to be 2014 before the roster really looks like Philbin wants it to. That's not to say they can't compete in 2013. But, they will still be dealing with turning over the roster from Parcells' type players.

dolfanmark Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> eesti Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > Why he didn't bother to replace our WR and CB
> last
> > year is beyond me but he says he has a plan for
> > this year. He didn't like the available players
> > last year? Maybe. He knew who was going to be
> > available this year as comparison? Most likely.
> He
> > would have to...but then again he spent a
> pretty
> > big chunk of JR's money on another teams
> "trash"
> > and valued it as treasure (Dimitri).
> >
>
> What big chunk of JR's money? He cost the Fins
> about $380k, as they only had to pay him two game
> checks, out of a 2.95M yearly salary. And he as no
> guaranteed money on the books for next season, so
> can be cut at no cost.
>
> If anyone thinks the Dolphins organization was
> building to be competitive in 2012, it's crazy.
> So, why worry about replacing Marshall or Davis
> immediately? They had a new head coach who has a
> totally different philosophy than the old regime.
> Bill Parcells believed in bigger players, all
> across the field. He believed in a physical
> running game that sets up play action passing,
> behind a straight ahead man to man blocking
> scheme. He believed in a 3-4 defense with the pass
> rushers at LB, big run stuffing DEs, and
> traditional safeties. The new coaching staff wants
> quicker, more athletic players. They believe in
> the West Coast offense, which depends heavily on
> the pass, spreads the defense horizontally, and
> uses a zone blocking scheme. Kevin Coyle believes
> in a 4-3 defense, with pass rushers at DE, more
> versatile LBs, and safeties that can be
> interchangeable.
>
> You know what that means? It means a good chunk of
> the roster is made up of the wrong kind of
> players. That takes time to fix. When they hired
> Philbin and drafted Tannehill, 2012 became a
> rebuilding year. It became about stockpiling draft
> picks and salary cap space. And guess what? It's
> going to be 2014 before the roster really looks
> like Philbin wants it to. That's not to say they
> can't compete in 2013. But, they will still be
> dealing with turning over the roster from
> Parcells' type players.