You make me laugh even when I disagree with you, BNF. But the issue is not the move, only the political communication skills.

Does it really make sense that the reason Vontae was traded is he was "up and down" Yet Sean Smith has clearly been down more then up and he wasnt traded.... Sorry it doesnt make sense, nor does Irelands explanation of that being the reasoning he gave Vontae...
The GM told me I was traded for up and down play...lol...ok

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Whatever (quote unquote) impact Vontae “can I go poddy now coach” had on the field he MORE THAN negated with his incessant calling grandma in the middle of team meetings and at least “3 times per quarter” according to reliable sources Darth Ireland invaded Scotland and took away Vontae’s bladder control meds. How sinister is THAT!

This freaky Ireland guy will do anything to stock pile draft picks including calling Vontae’s granny a hoe and maybe a shovel as well. I like gardening as much as the next finhead but this Ireland cabbage has got to go!

I think our next GM should be a Russian or at least a Bolshevik or maybe a Kardashian. Personally I loved their pointed ears on Star Trek and that Kirk dude would be a wicked good HC!

God dangit draft some Klingons on the OL! Those dudes are serious bad ass!


BNF.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2012 12:25PM by BigNastyFish.

BNF- did you forget to take your medication again? can you try and contribute something of value rather then nonsense... Every now and then it is funny, but every post is just gibberish as of late... I know your post and insight has value but lately I am just getting nothing, like trying to read ramblings from a mental institution.. good luck getting back on track

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

BigNastyFish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> God dangit draft some Klingons on the OL! Those
> dudes are serious bad ass!
>
Nah. Klingons would be better at LB. I want a few Hortas on the O-Line and D-Line, although maybe not at Center...because they won't be able to hike the ball without hands. Our QB should be a Vulcan. Safeties and CBs would be Betazoids, so they could read the opposing QB's and WRs minds to know where the ball is going before it's thrown. How about androids at WR and RB...so they never get tired and can run faster than anyone else on the field.

Oh, and our GM should be a Borg...so he can get players to sign to ANY contract ("resistance is futile".

You took the words right out of my mouth, Montequi. The Klingons GOTTA PLAY DEFENSE!

P.C., B.S. is not doing anyone any favors. Ireland did it the right way because these guys are professionals and they will respond better to honesty. Davis was not good enough and his attitude was not where it should have been. You tell the player the truth because you may be getting that player on your team again at some point in the future.

Davis was making too many stupid mistakes, being cute by leaving the practice field to use the bathroom (because he was out of shape and needed a break), had far too many mental errors, didn't respond to the coaches when they told him to get it together, didn't respond when they demoted him, made stupid penalties, dropped interceptions, was inconsistent in his play, and took his job for granted...he needed a heavy dose of honesty.

Davis was, as Ireland told him inconsistent, and that fact more than anything was impeding his progress as a player, but that the team liked him and apeciated him and his contribution to the team.

This coaching staff seems to value integrity, selflesness, commitment, self motivation, sacrifice, and mental toughness. Davis was lacking in a few of these areas.

Philbin and the rest of the staff were also obiously on the same page with respect to trading him...his issues were simply setting the wrong tone and example, especially for team leader. I doubt what hard knocks showed was how it really went down. The discission was probably a lot more lively.

Davis walked out like he didn't care one way or the other...give me a player like Les Brown any day because he really cared.

Again Ireland did it right...honesty is always the best policy.

What are you talking about Chyren? How is being honest with a player "proving your manhood"? Ireland gave it to him straight, told him he appreciated his contributions, and wished him luck. I doubt Vontae wanted to hear much more than that considering he was already looking ahead to calling his family. Ireland handled this well and didn't put a bunch of fluff in there.

Crowder, I agree that Vontae has been our best DB the last two years. However, that's also why we traded him and not Sean Smith. We traded Vontae because we got really good value on a troubled and inconsistent player. Sean Smith would not fetch nearly as much and, apparently, he has impressed the new staff. Plus, Vontae isn't a great fit in our new press man scheme so I'm not sure they saw Vontae in their long term plans. Also, they are obviously looking for a certain kind of player in their locker room.

Dolphin1423, I was talking about the posters on the board, not Ireland. A lot of them said that Vontae was a jerk and basically deserved to be told he was a jerk.

On the other hand, I criticized Ireland for his speech which really made it about Vontae's performance instead of it being a business deal.

It was unnecessary to say anything but simply, they wanted you bad, we couldn't pass up the offer, this is a business and you should be proud of how highly they regard you.

Ah, I can see your point now. I think that would have worked, but I think telling him why they are willing to part with him at all is a good bit of honesty that may help Vontae. I just don't have a problem with it and I don't see why Vontae would have any additional animosity towards the Fins besides the fact that we traded him.

At first he might not. But there's always a danger that when he gets to Indy he will do two things 1) he'll clean up his act and 2) he will forget how sorry his act was at Miami.


Then number 3 will be revenge the next time he plays Miami.

And there simply is no need for it.

Somebody give me One reason as to how it advantages our team to piss off this Colts player.

Still not sure how we pissed him off? If he is going to be upset about the trade then he will be upset about it. Nothing Ireland said added to that animosity in any way.

Well the pissing off doesn't come to you immediately. It takes a while.

But at some point, you're on the new team and you think "Hey those guys didn't want me. I wasn't good enough for them."

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well the pissing off doesn't come to you
> immediately. It takes a while.
>
> But at some point, you're on the new team and you
> think "Hey those guys didn't want me. I wasn't
> good enough for them."


Obviously. We traded him. So many things to get pissed at with this team it's amazIng your getting worked up about this

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Crowder? My man. I mean. Like I wrote that FYI Dude. I know you love Chinese and all that kung phooey chop chop. Speaking of that did you notice #95 tearing it up like a kung pow freaky football ninja! Dude. Or, in your case, should I say “douche” I’m like all lathered-up with football razzmatazz. Bottom line, And I’m sure you’ll agree.
Miami Dolphins = real good chop chop. No

freaking way you clam Crowder!

Upon further review, we need another preseason.

The following games could be like really bad pigeon or funked squirrel…

Oh and six teenie? I’d wager a martini!

All things considered – we have to laugh because it’s too ridiculous otherwise.

BNF. And seriously depressed.

But berk. If you go away with the message that it was the Colts who wanted you and came up with the idea. That we tried to resist but they made it too good. Do you really have the same attitude?

But when the GM gives you the same speech he gives people cut, it's kinda hard to take it anyway but a slap in the face.

And to answer your question, to me it's like "Is your mother a crack whore?"

Chyren, you lost me with your initial post.
Your "how he should have told him" dialog was a pathetic attempt of lying to him, to avoid "pissing him off"? Seriously?!
Coming from a place of fear shows weakness and a lack of confidence.
Your argument against how Ireland handled Vonte is just flat out ill-conceived and annoying.

Bob,

I know this. If I were traded, I would like to know the truth as to why. Not knowing why would eat me up and I would have resentment if you fed me some standard line. I believe in the adage, "Say what you mean and mean what you say." As a mature adult, I can handle constructive criticism and I look at it as an opportunity to learn. Therefore, I would have appreciated the input from Ireland.

Perhaps Vontae is weak-minded and can't be receptive of constructive criticism and, therefore, would rather have had it handled in your way. If that is true, then that speaks volumes about why he behaves the way he does and has yet to reach his potential consistently. It certainly seemed like he was more interested in his trade value. Rudely calling his family in Ireland's office spoke volumes too.

For the record, no matter what you said to me, I would be very eager to prove myself against my former team. However, if Davis' received the message, recognizes his mistakes, admits them to himself, learns from them and then puts them behind him, he will become a better player having had this experience, and thus be more dangerous as an opponent.

Ultimately, my point is that I believe Ireland cared enough for the young man he selected and formed a relationship with to be honest with him and leave him with one last piece of food for thought before he wished him well. Never did I see it as an attack.

If you don't agree, then we simply have some major differences in our sets of values.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/2012 02:44AM by Jonathan Twilley.

Extremely well said Jonathon.

ChyrenB Wrote:

> Yes, all players try to play their best in all
> games.
>
> But if anyone who thinks that Tom Brady will not
> play a little extra harder when he next plays the
> New York Giants, is young and immature and has a
> lot of growing older to do.

Sometimes trying too hard leads to poor execution.

Also you missed my point. Vontae may have been a Colt, but Ireland had been a mentor of Vontae's and respected him enough to let him know the reason he was traded, thus providing one last piece of advice. What he was doing, at that point, wasn't about business at all. It was personal and what I saw was Ireland passing on some advice before kicking Vontae out of the nest, in hopes he will fly. Your perception is that he was being kicked while he was down.

That essentially is the difference in this argument. Some of us see it as constructive criticism and you see it as ridicule. There is no point arguing this any further.

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When you lead the team in interceptions you are
> doing better at it then every other player on the
> defense since you were a part of the team. An
> interceptions is an impact play, and last time I
> checked, Vontae had the same amount of
> interceptions as Revis did last year......
> If Vontae is a dissappointment with 9
> interceptions and a first rd pick, how big of a
> dissappointment is Sean Smith selected in the 2nd
> rd with only 3 interceptions, yet he was valued by
> the GM more then Vontae..


And we still lost many games and stunk as a team. Vontae did not make a difference in games......

Comes to camp out of shape and loses his job to a free agent signee.

So long vontae.

If it was that, Jonathan, it really was no longer his business and most likely to backfire on the organization. You saw Ireland as trying to be helpful. I'm not sure he just did not have the intelligence to realize the difference in how you talk to someone you're cutting and someone you're trading.

Vontae is not very good anyways. Its not like he is going to make a difference on the colts.

I just saw the hard knocks scene and I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about ChyrenB. Ireland gave it to him straight, told him what he needed to improve on, and told him he thought he'd have a good career. He said nothing wrong. I can't believe this got you so worked up. You wanted him to lie to Vonte and tell him they were trading him because he was the best CB in the NFL? I mean who gets fired and gets smoke blown up their ass, or wants to/needs to hear that?

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Chryen-

I am a small business owner. I make an investment in every employee I hire. Some of them don't work out. I don't like to let them go, but sometimes I have to. When I do, I don't wish ill will on them, but they deserve the right to know why I'm letting them go, and I hope they'll do better elsewhere. Even if they go to a competitor. I think that is being a man. I see absolutely nothing - nada, zero, zilch - with the way Ireland handled it. He handled it like a man to a man, and if Vontae can't deal with it, so be it; it's only because Vontae isn't a man yet, and maybe never will be. He needs to learn to grow up and take his profession seriously.

Anemone1, you have described perfectly what you do to someone who you are letting go.

Berk, like Anemone1, again Ireland talked to him softly and described where Vontae needs to improve.

What you both missed, perhaps because you don't want to read my long posts, is the essential point that this was a trade and not a cut.

And berk, you are not LYING to him, you are telling the truth IF YOU SAID, as I suggested that The Colts INITIATED THE TRADE TALKS. That was true unless I completely mis-heard Hard Knocks.

So you tell him 1) the Colts wanted you 2) they made a deal we could not resist, 3) Good Luck and 4) you should be proud that the Colts thought that highly of you.

What part of that is a lie.

When you say "lie" Berk. You must be talking about the sin of omission. You are probably saying I'm lying because I am concealing that we are happy to get rid of him.

But that's my whole point, it's stupid to tell him that even if you couch it in terms of fatherly advice for the future.

It's no longer your business.

It's just none of your business.

You put on the most positive spin and you keep on going.

Now if you were cutting him then what Ireland said would have been perfectly okay.

Anemone1, you talked about someone you were letting go. You didn't talk about someone that another company wanted and brought out the contract of your employee.

If you would have given that guy a list of all his deficiencies when you told him his contract was brought out (particularly where he would be competing against your salesmen or employees) then I have to disagree with you as much as I did with Ireland.

This seems to be a point that seems to be harder to get across than one would imagine.

My best friend was a Deputy Attorney General who had retired years ago because of a stroke and without mentioning the chatboard, I talked to him and told him what Ireland had done and he laughed. I asked why he was laughing and he said (difficult as it is for him to speak) "Why did he do that? He traded the guy."

But maybe you need to drink the California water to see clearly.

I just noticed, berk, you even used the word "fired." You guys are so used to the cuts that you actually think Vontae was cut. He wasn't cut! He wasn't fired!