eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm sure if you compare him to the all time greats
> it looks a lot worse but that's not fair since
> they are no longer around...Ron Wolfe, Bill
> Polian, etc...So who are the elite GM's working
> right now?
>
> 1st tier
> Ozzie Newsome, Brian Belichick, Kevin Colbert,
> Jerry Reese
>
> 2md tier
> Thomas Dimitroff, AJ Smith, Howard Roseman, Ted
> Thompson, Mickey Loomis
>
> These guys are probably some of the top GM's
> today.
>
> Allmost all would not be considered that great had
> they not found a franchise QB. Look at AJ
> Smith...he keeps bringing in talent and the
> Chargers are still up and down every year.
> Dimitroff hasn't yet fielded a good defense, he
> just has Matt Ryan and a couple franchise
> receivers.
>
> Ireland takes all the heat but he will be judged
> by Ryan Tannehill success or failure.
>
> Where would we be placing Belichick if he hadn't
> got lucky with Brady?
>
> It's been talked about before on this site but
> Ireland thus far has only brought in a few good to
> very good starters. He hasn't found any
> superstars/playmakers yet (other than Jake Long).
> The jury is still out on this years crop. We still
> have to wait and see on other players that still
> may be studs...
>
> Cam Wake, Reggie Bush, Jared Odrick.


Two are free agent signings.

If there is one area where Ireland has been OK, its the FAs.

But with players like Wake, Hogan, and Bess it is because our drafting is so bad. These guys just wouldn't get a shot on teams that draft well.

------------------------------------------------------------

Miami Dolphins. Always Perfect.

Free agents are part of the job description last I checked.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm sure if you compare him to the all time greats
> it looks a lot worse but that's not fair since
> they are no longer around...Ron Wolfe, Bill
> Polian, etc...So who are the elite GM's working
> right now?
>
> 1st tier
> Ozzie Newsome, Brian Belichick, Kevin Colbert,
> Jerry Reese
>
> 2md tier
> Thomas Dimitroff, AJ Smith, Howard Roseman, Ted
> Thompson, Mickey Loomis
>
> These guys are probably some of the top GM's
> today.
>
> Allmost all would not be considered that great had
> they not found a franchise QB. Look at AJ
> Smith...he keeps bringing in talent and the
> Chargers are still up and down every year.
> Dimitroff hasn't yet fielded a good defense, he
> just has Matt Ryan and a couple franchise
> receivers.
>
> Ireland takes all the heat but he will be judged
> by Ryan Tannehill success or failure.
>
> Where would we be placing Belichick if he hadn't
> got lucky with Brady?
>
> It's been talked about before on this site but
> Ireland thus far has only brought in a few good to
> very good starters. He hasn't found any
> superstars/playmakers yet (other than Jake Long).
> The jury is still out on this years crop. We still
> have to wait and see on other players that still
> may be studs...
>
> Cam Wake, Reggie Bush, Jared Odrick.

*********************************************************

That's BILL Belichick, not BRIAN, but that's OK, we know who you meant.

lol..I alwasys get those BB's mixed up. Brian Billick etc.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

> have we drafted one player that out performed his draft positon?
No.

You have to give Ireland credit for the ones he brought in outside of the draft for even less cost. Both of these guys out performed their draft positions.

1. Bess
2. Wake

"This isn't hindsight, it was obvious at the time."

You're mistaken. It is hindsight.

Rick



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/21/2012 01:23PM by dolphan4545.

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sean smith has yet to be a great cb during his nfl
> career... End of story... Sean smith is great in
> training camp and has been awful after that... He
> was rated as the 74 cb last year, behind Nolan
> carroll by twenty spots and fifty behind davis. I
> promise you Sean smith will not grade out this
> year as the best cb on the team.. During his
> career with us he normally grades out as the worst
> cb on our team....


According to profootballfocus.com, Smith ranked as the 9th best CB in the league in 2010, and would have been higher had he been able to hold on to interceptions. 2011 was a disaster for Smith, and that may be what sticks in people's minds, but he really had a great 2010.

DolfanKing Wrote:

>
> But with players like Wake, Hogan, and Bess it is
> because our drafting is so bad. These guys just
> wouldn't get a shot on teams that draft well.


We outbid four other teams for Wake.
When Bess agreed to sign with Miami after the draft, Ireland exclaimed "we just got our Wes Welker." Ireland knew Bess would go undrafted, and wisely didn't waste a pick on him, but he knew that he was a player.

You have to give credit where credit is due.

berkeley223 Wrote:


> Pouncy--highest drafted C in history. He better be
> Hall of Fame worthy. We shall see.

Steve Everitt is the highest drafted C in history.

berkeley223 Wrote:

> Jones was a 6th round pick and he's contributing,
> so I will give you that one. But he's not an
> impact player.

You don't expect 6th round picks to be starters. So, the fact that he is means that he is outperforming his draft position. The same goes for Chris Clemons. And it will also apply to Jimmy Wilson.

>
> Bess wasn't drafted so doesn't count. But yes he's
> been a good player for us.
>
> Hartline? if he can ever get on the field he is
> OK--not a great player.

He has led the team in yards per catch and run after catch each year of his career. You don't expect that from a 4th rd pick.

>
> K Langford. No longer on the team. Another solid
> but not difference making player.

He's an outstanding run defender in a 3-4 scheme. It may not be glamorous on the stat sheet, but he was more than solid for us.

>
> Contrast your list with all the of many players
> who totally underperformed where they were
> picked----Turner, White, Jerry, Murphy, Misi,
> Edds, Odrick..

White was Parcells' picks. Ireland was dead set against taking White, but White was the apple of Parcells' eye. It's also been said that Parcells overruled Ireland on Turner, too, because Ireland didn't like Turner's lack of production at USC. Odrick was excellent last season. 3-4 DEs don't put up big sack numbers, because they are mainly run defenders.


> Where are the Jason Taylors (3d rounder) Zach
> Thomas (5th Round) Mark Clayton (8th
> round)---those are the kind of things I am talking
> about when I mean out performing your draft spot

So you are talking about flukes or dumb luck? Guys that exceed expectations by that much are not common (the 3 guys in your example cover 30 years of drafting). Jason Taylor was an athletic freak. Zach Thomas was pure luck. Heck, we drafted another ILB ahead of him in the 5th round (LaCurtis Jones), so even we didn't think he was going to be more than a special teams guy. We desperately need another Mark Clayton, a WR who has that burning desire to be great, the toughness to battle for every pass, and the athleticism to do it against anyone. We have't found another one in 30 years. So, it's not an easy thing to do. In any round.

dammit mark, you are very intelligent but I think the expression "can't see the forest for the trees" applies to your analysis.
ireland has drafted horribly and if wilson, clemons, and rashad jones are your counterpoint then I think you have proved mine

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Maybe if you want to judge a wet t-shirt contest before they even bring the water out.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

really etsi? some of these guys have been on the team 3 years. the water has dried already

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

"Some of these guys" does not consitute the entire team. You can give them a progress report but not a final grade.

It aint over til its over.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Bess counts even more because he wasn't drafted. As stated above, he chose not to waste a pick, because he knew he would go undrafted, but got him signed.

Credit where due. Good work!

That said, need to see something out of this year's draft and not seeing it in the other WRs yet. Who knows fuller, clay, ... not coming from egnew or cunningham yet.

I get that you can't solve all positions in one year, but WR should have been addressed in FA market.

I think Miami should have pursued Brayon Edwards.

Hoping they can make something out of those in the fold, but I sure don't see an oiled machine yet. Hopefully when we get the run game mixed in we see some traction in the passing game.

This next pre-season game should show us something. In even my most optimistic view, we need to see more chemistry with the OL and also see the defense sho up.

Not quite banking on the idea that we are hiding our strengths for the real season ...

No and we have been passing the ball almost 4 to 1 to get a handle on pour QB situation.

Now that QB is ironed out we can get more balanced to keep defenses from keying off on us passing every down. (batted balls & sacks)

RT took some serious abuse last week. We can't have that.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Some of these guys" does not consitute the entire
> team. You can give them a progress report but not
> a final grade.
>
> It aint over til its over.


So the ENTIRE TEAM down to every man has to be a diaster before anyone can say that Ireland has done a crappy job.

No when he referred to some of these guys...the discussion was about guys going into their 2nd and 3rd years. Just saying it's not over yet. It may very well turn out that way but you have to measure him on the total body of work and we don't even know what happens with this years crop or even last years. Were still waiting on Jared Odrick for instance.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Ireland has had a major (and for year only) hand in picking players for this team for 5 year now. Yet we have very little talent and one of the worst salary cap situtations in the league (I think I read somewhere we are in the bottom 3 in terms of cap room).

There is no objective standard by which you can say Ireland has been anything but terrible as a GM. He has had plenty of time and the results are bad.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

I do know one thing. Franchises that suck year after year, decade after decade, are the ones that hire and fire upper management like they are changing underwear.

Sometimes owners are too quick to pull the trigger and never really upgrade.

Could be worse. We could still have Rick Speilman or Nick Saban doing evaluations.

Ireland may have had a hand in picking players when Parcels was here but there is no way you're gonna convince me he had a major hand in it while the egomaniac was still in Miami.

I believe he did more so in 2010 when the quitter was quitting again but not a huge part until then. Ireland may have put potential players on Parcels desk but BP had the final say and he stuck to his hard and fast rules.

I don't think blaming Ireland for Parcels moves is objective. Ireland has had final say for two years. That is a fact.

Saying he had a major hand in every decision for 5 years is speculation.

I'm not even an Ireland fan. Personally, I don't really like him but I'm not going to blame the cook because the grocer was a pig headed, egomaniacal, fat quitter.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Shouldn't that be the other way around? Shouldn't it be don't blame the grocer for the way the cook makes the meal?

And wouldn't Ireland be the cook with Parcells being the grocer thus higher up on the food chain?

I'm just playing with the analogies here.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Shouldn't that be the other way around? Shouldn't
> it be don't blame the grocer for the way the cook
> makes the meal?
>
> And wouldn't Ireland be the cook with Parcells
> being the grocer thus higher up on the food
> chain?
>
> I'm just playing with the analogies here.


Chren i always since iam cuban have a hard time understanding your analogies...

But i the same time i almost pee myself laughing and reading them.

Thanks for not getting mad at me playing the clown.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for not getting mad at me playing the
> clown.


I dont think you are making the clown....Everybody have different views about everything. Its fun.


If you wanna talk about a clown. Talk about mia1.

dolfanmark Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> According to profootballfocus.com, Smith ranked as
> the 9th best CB in the league in 2010, and would
> have been higher had he been able to hold on to
> interceptions. 2011 was a disaster for Smith, and
> that may be what sticks in people's minds, but he
> really had a great 2010.

Oh you mean the year he lost his starting job to Jason Allen and didnt get it back until Allen floundered so bad he was cut from the roster...? Following the 2010 season Smith only had 1 interception for his entire career....What are you talking about?

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dolfanmark Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > According to profootballfocus.com, Smith ranked
> as
> > the 9th best CB in the league in 2010, and
> would
> > have been higher had he been able to hold on to
> > interceptions. 2011 was a disaster for Smith,
> and
> > that may be what sticks in people's minds, but
> he
> > really had a great 2010.
>
> Oh you mean the year he lost his starting job to
> Jason Allen and didnt get it back until Allen
> floundered so bad he was cut from the roster...?
> Following the 2010 season Smith only had 1
> interception for his entire career....What are you
> talking about?

Mark was using the same rankings system that you used when you proclaimed how horrible Smith was earlier in this thread. You just cherry picked Smith's worst year, via those rankings, to bash him. Mark just showed that Smith also had a very good year in 2010 according to those rankings. The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. You can't just cherry pick rankings from a site and not expect someone else to use those same rankings. Either dismiss the rankings as inconclusive and stop using them or man up and accept those rankings, even when it means you're wrong.

Dolphin 1423, You are wrong they are not the same ranking system. I used top 100 cb from the top 1000 nfl players... It is not the same ranking system as profootall focus. So before you choose to chastise someone in a conversation you werent even in, it is best to have your facts straight, which yours are not...try again

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Could be worse. We could still have Rick Speilman
> or Nick Saban doing evaluations.
>
Or Wanny!