Now that there's no tag on him, I wonder who'll bite.

Its not my #1 choice, but I think Flynn is going to be our new starter.

I'm hoping Cleveland takes him and they go after some other holes to fill.

Yeah, but that should not be a disqualifier. I followed Drew Brees all the way through his college career. He was a dink and dunk QB because they had a dink and dunk offense. He killed Big Ten opponents with those nickel and dimes and is continuing to do it in the NFL. Those nickel and dimes add up.

"All I want is the nickel and dimes." --Famous Mobster.

Well that Green Bay cacoom is now going to be a Miami cacoon.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

I'm having a tough time with my perception of Flynn and am absolutely relieved that our coaching staff has the most information on him. If they're sold on him, I guess I am.

However, from my untrained eye perspective I can't see a great difference between him and Matt Moore. When Moore hit his stride starting with the KC game, he played 9 games with a 15/5 TD/INT ratio. That translates to 27/9 over a full season. My biggest complaint/fear with Moore is that he didn't ever put the team on his shoulders and carry them to victory over a team they should have lost to...NE and Dallas were the closest he came, but he (they) came up short in both. I suppose one could argue that after starting 0-7 we should have been underdogs in all 16 games, but that's not how I see it. And, Flynn gets credit for posting a 100 rating (3 TD/ 1 INT) in a close loss to NE in 2010, where Moore's stats in last year's close loss almost mirror those (98.6 rating, 3/1 TD/INT ratio). I find it hard to ding Moore for something Flynn gets kudos for...and vice versa.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah, but that should not be a disqualifier. I
> followed Drew Brees all the way through his
> college career. He was a dink and dunk QB because
> they had a dink and dunk offense. He killed Big
> Ten opponents with those nickel and dimes and is
> continuing to do it in the NFL. Those nickel and
> dimes add up.
>
> "All I want is the nickel and dimes." --Famous
> Mobster.

And yet, Brees started his whole college career and was a high draft pick. Abd Brees set tons of passing records, with the Purdue attack being wide open, and it was hardly a dink and dunk offense. Flynn was a one year college starter who wound up as a 7th round pick.

tsstamper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm having a tough time with my perception of
> Flynn and am absolutely relieved that our coaching
> staff has the most information on him. If they're
> sold on him, I guess I am.
>
> However, from my untrained eye perspective I can't
> see a great difference between him and Matt Moore.
> When Moore hit his stride starting with the KC
> game, he played 9 games with a 15/5 TD/INT ratio.
> That translates to 27/9 over a full season. My
> biggest complaint/fear with Moore is that he
> didn't ever put the team on his shoulders and
> carry them to victory over a team they should have
> lost to...NE and Dallas were the closest he came,
> but he (they) came up short in both. I suppose
> one could argue that after starting 0-7 we should
> have been underdogs in all 16 games, but that's
> not how I see it. And, Flynn gets credit for
> posting a 100 rating (3 TD/ 1 INT) in a close loss
> to NE in 2010, where Moore's stats in last year's
> close loss almost mirror those (98.6 rating, 3/1
> TD/INT ratio). I find it hard to ding Moore for
> something Flynn gets kudos for...and vice versa.

You are using stats as a comparison, and they are really irrelevant. Moore does not have a great arm, isn't very accurate, doesn't have much pocket awareness, and does not make quick decisions. While his stats were fine, there was a lot less than meets the eye to his actual play. Why do you think everyone says they need an upgrade? Because his stats don't reflect his play. When Ireland says he needs to improve his footwork and his reads, that is not a good fit for a west coast offense. Precise footwork and quick reads are a must.

Got it. With the small body of work, only the Packers (or their former OC) really know whether Flynn is truly an upgrade. I didn't see the GB-DET game this year, but some commentaries I remember made it sound like the system and players around him were making him look much better than he is. Obviously the case for a 6 TD game, but I almost don't like that he had such an aberration on his record...almost certainly drove his price up. Again, glad our coaching staff knows him so well.

I wonder if the Hype about Flynn may be a bit over rated?

On the upside, he knows thew system Philbin will install.

On the questionable side is how much of the success he enjoyed was due to him versus the talent and machine around him?

- Both on offense and defense they were strong.

Are we willing to pay big money for a 7th rounder, who has played 3 significant times, in what may well have been more of a system friendly QB position, with a decent defense to make life a bit easier?

Just asking? Your thoughts?

Flynn is overfreaking rated. I hope we are not dumping big time money on a guy who did not show much at LSU, learned how to do a 3 step cha cha and release the ball in Green Bay, played one meaningless game and now folks are drooling over themselves. I am getting tired fast of all this 'he cann't work in a WC offense' when better qb's than Flynn are mentioned. Why are we tying an albatross of an offense and qb around our necks already. If Philbin is not a coach who can tailor an offense around his players like an NFL coach use to then screw him and his system. This system talk is an excuse 'I'm really not that good of a coach I just memorized the plays in this book'. That's all this system crap is saying.

This should be an interesting couple of weeks. Basically the future of the franchise for the next few years--maybe more--hangs on this one decision about the QB. Saban faced the same kind of choice between Culpepper and Brees and failed.

We go into this one better prepared. The choice of Philbin, who then hired Sherman, looks like a stroke of genius right now. Between them, they have a more accurate sense of the value of Flynn and Tannehill as potential franchise QBs than anyone else in the NFL. Ireland supposedly has good connections at Baylor so has insight into RGIII, whatever that's worth.

Ironically (or not), the one we're supposedly pursuing most, Manning, is the one we have the least knowledge of. And the team that does have inside knowledge on his health situation (Indianapolis) is getting ready to cut loose the most important player in franchise history. You can bet they don't think he's going to lead any other team to the Super Bowl.

Anyway, it'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

slipstream Wrote:

> Ironically (or not), the one we're supposedly
> pursuing most, Manning, is the one we have the
> least knowledge of. And the team that does have
> inside knowledge on his health situation
> (Indianapolis) is getting ready to cut loose the
> most important player in franchise history. You
> can bet they don't think he's going to lead any
> other team to the Super Bowl.


It's not entirely that simple. Number one, no other team will be on the hook for $28M this year for Manning, like the Colts would be. His health is a risk, and paying 25% of your salary cap towards him is very hard to take. Number two, the Colts are rebuilding. They are faced with losing much of their core. As such, does it make sense to spend so much money on Manning? And number three, they are in the rare position of being able to draft an elite QB prospect to build around. I don't know how good Luck will be, but he is considered the best QB prospect coming out of college since Manning, at least, and maybe since Elway. Normally, a team with an elite QB is never in position to make such a draft pick, but because of Manning missing all of last season, the Colts are in that unique position.

There are reasons it makes sense for the Colts to do this. It is a difficult business decision. But, it is not necessarily an indictment that they think Manning is done. They may just believe it is in their best interest to save the money, draft Luck, and build for 2014.

As Gil Brandt said on Sirius last night, he would never underestimate what Manning will be capable of.

Chyren not sure where it said the Purdue offense was dink and dunk. Nor did I see where it says that Brees didn't throw deep passes. All your post proves is that when Brees threw deep, he had some accuracy issues. That can be said about a QB in the spread, pro offense, and option offense. That could also be said of just about any college QB. Deep accuracy is rare for any QB much less a college QB. Lots of NFL QB's struggle to accurately throw the deep ball. Even Tom Brady struggles to consistently throw deep with accuracy. This is part of what makes RGIII so intriguing, his deep accuracy is uncanny.

i think flynn would make a good qb to step in for 5 or 6 games when your starter goes down, but i dont know that he would be that good going for 16 or more games a year. As much as i was on the fence about it in previous weeks, i have grown to like the idea of bringing in Manning he has the ability to almost single handedly make us super bowl contenders, plus i feel his surrounding cast here is much better than what he had in indy, and I would love to have our #8 pick to spend on a atud for either our offensive or defensive line

"It's been fun to get the reaction of visiting coaches to the color of their locker room. Most don't notice it, but those that do are in trouble. . . . When I talk to an opposing coach before a game and he mentions the pink walls, I know I've got him. I can't recall a coach who has stirred up a fuss about the color and then beat us.” Hayden Fry

I just wish we traded up and got giffin3 and get it overwith.

Manning can either be a good option or he can be a ticking timebomb with the injury. I personally would not take my chances of adquiring a player whose best years are ahead of him and he carries the injury bug at his age.

Do you remember how well marino played in his last year with the injury?

Thats the picture i keep picturing in my head.

And unless jake long can show he can stay healthy for once and we improve this OL you just know he is going to get pounded.

How long you think manning will last healthy on this team?

Id give it one or two games.

_______________________________________________________________________

thats why i believe rober griffin can make it on this team with his ability to scramble and make thing happen with his feet. Unlike manning.

Agreed. If he does make it through this year, we absolutely need to go after a top talent QB in round 1 next year. Manning will give us at best maybe 3-4 years. In reality i see him giving us 2 maybe into a 3rd year of productivity.

"It's been fun to get the reaction of visiting coaches to the color of their locker room. Most don't notice it, but those that do are in trouble. . . . When I talk to an opposing coach before a game and he mentions the pink walls, I know I've got him. I can't recall a coach who has stirred up a fuss about the color and then beat us.” Hayden Fry

Manning won't get pounded. The last year he played in Indy he was sacked only 16 times. That Oline was one of the worst in football.

Manning has incredible pocket presence, moves well, and gets the ball out quickly. He doesn't take many hits. Besides, the officials will be all over any defensive player hitting Manning. With the bounty news breaking, the new rules to protect the QB, and the fact that a healthy Manning is good for the NFL, I would suspect that officials will be watching any hits on Manning very, very closely.

A 75% Jake Long is still a top 5 LT in the NFL. Pouncey will be a top 5 C next year. Incognito is underrated. If we can get average play on the right side, we will have a good Oline and that is all you need with Manning under center. If we get Manning then getting another pass rusher is paramount. We will be playing with a lead more often and our pass rushers will have more opportunities to pin back their ears and go after the QB. A great bookend with Wake would take our D to the next level.

Ideal off season:

Sign Manning
Sign Reggie Nelson FS
Sign Reggie Wayne

Draft Pass Rusher in 1st
Draft BPA of these positions for the rest of draft: OG, OT, 4-3 LB, DT.

dolphin1423 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Chyren not sure where it said the Purdue offense
> was dink and dunk. Nor did I see where it says
> that Brees didn't throw deep passes. All your
> post proves is that when Brees threw deep, he had
> some accuracy issues. That can be said about a QB
> in the spread, pro offense, and option offense.
> That could also be said of just about any college
> QB. Deep accuracy is rare for any QB much less a
> college QB. Lots of NFL QB's struggle to
> accurately throw the deep ball. Even Tom Brady
> struggles to consistently throw deep with
> accuracy.

I watched almost every Purdue game. Trust me. It was a short yardage offense. I'm not saying he sucks as a long passer either. But what I am saying is that he will be short to intermediate passer for us.


This is part of what makes RGIII so
> intriguing, his deep accuracy is uncanny.

alright Chyren. I'll trust you this one time.

IMO...I dont think Flynn is an upgrade over Moore, other then he knows Philbin's system... Moore has been tested and wins more then he loses over a decent stretch of games in positions that were not easy with teams that were to be top ten draft picks, and not becasue of him... Flynn was plugged in, in games that didnt matter, he had nothing to lose, and his team without him won a superbowl and 14 games in 1 season.... If I had a choice of Flynn or Moore, I would choose Moore

The true test of a man is how he handles adversity, Moore has impressed me and proven himself against adversity.. Flynn hasnt faced adversity, he was carried... And FLynn has no stronger arm then Moore, he is limited and not a guy that can make every NFL throw.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2012 02:31PM by Crowder52.

Flynn has faced adversity. He was a 7th round draft pick and look where he is now. He didn't start in college til his senior year (stuck behind JaMarcus) and lead the team to a national championship in his first year starting. I'm not saying Flynn is great but give the man some credit.

But I would be thrilled as hell to get Drew Brees and a thousand times more relaxed about him making it through the season healthy than if we had to go with Peyton.

dolphin1423 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Flynn has faced adversity. He was a 7th round
> draft pick and look where he is now. He didn't
> start in college til his senior year (stuck behind
> JaMarcus) and lead the team to a national
> championship in his first year starting. I'm not
> saying Flynn is great but give the man some
> credit.


Flynn was drafted in the 7th rd, had zero pressure placed on him, zero expectations, and was able to carry the clipboard behind Farve, and Rodgers and won a superbowl on the bench... What adversity has he faced? College dont count... Lots of guys face adversity in college and fall flat on their face in the pro's after pressure is applied... I would pay Matt Flynn, the same deal Moore got, as a backup, and that is it..

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> IMO...I dont think Flynn is an upgrade over Moore,


Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Crowder52 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > IMO...I dont think Flynn is an upgrade over
> Moore,
>
>
> Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But, Flynn is experienced in the West Coast Offense, and Moore is an incredibly poor fit in the WCO. It demands precise footwork, quick decisions, and very accurate throws on short timing patterns. Those are not Matt Moore's strong suits. In particular, he really holds on to the ball too long and has a poor sense of the pocket. If they get Flynn, I would not be surprised to see Moore traded, and have a veteran WCO guy brought in as a backup.