If Cleveland offers a no. 4 and the no. 22, then it is hard to see how STL could resist. You only lose one spot (to no. 3) AND you get an extra pick at 22. We'd have to come up with probably an stupidly high price to beat that.

I agree Chyren, the only way were getting RG3, is if Cleveland signs Manning, Flynn or doesn't want him.

And the odds of either Manning or Flynn wanting to go to Cleveland, a relatively small market, instead of Manning coming to the Dolphins, a storied franchise, or Flynn wanting to come with Philbin, unless something is true behind the scenes that we don't know about, are small.

All true.

Here is another scenario: The Browns may not want to give up two first rounders. Instead they could draft Blackmon and Tannehill. If they fall in love with Tannehill that would be a much better haul than just RGIII. They would probably need to move back up to the early teens to get Tannehill but that will only cost them a 2nd and 4th, I am guessing.

Tannehill's draft stock is rising and someone is going to fall in love with him and take him in the first half of the first round. I just hope it is Washington or Cleveland.

Cleveland would pounce on Flynn by the way. He is a perfect fit for their system and doesn't cost them either of their first round picks.

If Flynn goes to Cleveland and Washington sits tight to get Tannehill, then the competition is lessened significantly for RGIII. We could get him for a reasonable price even if we already signed Manning. In that scenario it would cost us our 1st this year, 1st next year, and 2nd this year or next year. That is not that steep. At that point the Rams will just be looking for another 1st rounder and a little bit extra for sweetener.

No way we end up with Manning AND RG3. It makes no sense.

montequi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No way we end up with Manning AND RG3. It makes
> no sense.


I agree it won't happen.

But it makes plenty of sense.

If you sign manning you are addressing QB for the next two years at a very high level if he's healthy.

Two years from now (or sooner) you'll be looking to draft his replacement and that isn't going to be easy from the bottom 1/3 of the draft.

If RG3 were to magically fall to you, or you could trade up to get him for peanuts, then you'd be addressing our QB play not just for the next two years but for the next 12-15 AND RG3 would get to spend a year or two learning his trade from the best/hardest working QB of his generation.

Some things should be kept to one's self.

Rick

And I think at this point, based on the wild speculation of how much it might take to get RGIII, two 1st rounders and one 2nd rounder IS peanuts for RGIII.

Cleveland or Washington will land RGIII unless we think he is worth giving up the next few drafts

Flynn is still a possibility, as is Tannehill

dolphan4545 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some things should be kept to one's self.


LOL. TMI Huh?

jlyell13 Wrote:
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> Cleveland or Washington will land RGIII unless we
> think he is worth giving up the next few drafts
>
> Flynn is still a possibility, as is Tannehill

---------------------------------------------------

The scenario that one of our posters put out is a good one, i.e., Manning signs with Miami and Miami moves up to 2nd and grabs RG III.

This is great for "right now" and in the future.

The only way Miami can get Tannehill (if they are really interested) is either takeing him at #8, or trading down to maybe #11. However, reports are hot that he will go in the top 10, so...

With only one year to his credit (as Q is it really worth taking him at 8?

And on top of it, if I'm RGIII, I might cause "signing problems" if Manning goes to where I was drafted. If all I have to do is wait a year under Matt Moore, that's one thing. But if I, RGIII, figure that Manning will be the Miami QB for the next 2 to 5 years, then I get difficult and demand the moon to be signed. I thereby force Miami to trade my signing rights and once that is done, sign with the new team who buys my rights for a much more REASONABLE price.

Secondly, from Miami's standpoint, having RGIII, Manning AND Moore is simply too much devoted to the QB situation. Yeah, I know we need Qb but there is still something called going too far.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2012 03:17PM by ChyrenB.

RGIII has said in all interviews that he would be honored to learn behind Peyton. So if he flips the switch and demands to be traded then I think that would be a)shocking and b) that would show something negative about his character that has not been evident at all.

I think RGIII would be ok learning behind Peyton and it would only help him in the long run. Also, the draft compensation is slotted so he can only make so much. He might want Andrew Luck type money but I think there is a limit on how much rookies can be paid depending on when they were drafted.

He could still hold out because he doesn't want to sit for a few years but that would be a shocking development based on everything he has said so far.

I think if RGIII said that, he means if he goes number 1 in the draft ahead of Andrew Luck and is drafted by Indy.

Ha. Ha. If he can pull that off then more power to him. I don't think so though.

But besides that. It's one thing to go to Indy and sit behind Peyton for a short time and another to go to Miami and sit behind Peyton when the Dolphins have paid a lot for Peyton and then paid a lot to get up to number 2, 3, or 4 to draft you.

Then, you, as RGIII, would begin to wonder how long will Peyton be here given the money Miami spent on getting him (Peyton).

I don't see it as the same as sitting behind Peyton at Indy as the acknowledged successor.

And if you (RGIII) DO come to Miami with Peyton, what is going to happen to Moore?

You think that Miami is just going to cut him or do you think that he will be kept in reserve as a sub? Ireland's pretty stupid but even he is not stupid enough to let Moore go when his other QBs are an injury ridden ole man and a rookie who has never taken a snap in the NFL.

Add Flynn to the equation and you come up with a different scenario but still there will be no RGIII PLUS Flynn PLUS Moore.

You don't have to sit out. You have to reach a contract with the team that drafts you.

By demanding a high price, that team is either forced with the choice of a) not signing you and sitting on your rights or b) trading your rights. That's the power a draftee has. Few have the ability to exercise it but it can happen.

Bo Jackson

Chyren. The point I made is that RGIII can only demand so much money. There is a rookie wage scale that he must abide by. He can't sit out because he wants more money because that is, more or less, determined by draft slot. He can ask for the highest possible amount in the range for his draft slot but there is a limit to how much he can possibly sign for. Also, He can choose not to sign if he doesn't want to play behind Peyton.

Peyton is likely to be signed to a two or three year deal. Same length as his current deal with Indy. I don't see a big difference between sitting behind Peyton in Indy or here. Indy will have a big financial commitment to Peyton same as any team that signs him.

We will keep Peyton for the length of his contract as long as he is playing at a high level. Remember that Philbin coached Favre and Rodgers for three years. I think he would know how to manage the expectations of RGIII and point out the benefits that Rodgers took from that situation. If RGIII is developing nicely and Peyton is still playing at a high in two or three years then we cross that road when we get there and how is that a bad thing? That would be a great situation to have two very good QBs on our team.

RGIII would obviously be the acknowledged successor in Miami, same as he would be in Indy.

In that situation it would be likely that Moore becomes trade bait. I think we could get a 3rd rounder for him. If Charlie Whitehurst is worth a third rounder, then I think Matt Moore is worth a 3rd rounder.

Obviously if we sign Manning then there are no injury concerns. RGIII is a logical backup as Manning could get hurt same as any player in the NFL. RGIII won't go #2 overall if he is too much of a project to play in his first season anyways. One thing that would be a hurdle is if we kept Moore and moved RGIII to 3rd on the depth chart. I think he wouldn't be happy with that and we would be stupid to do it. RGIII would need reps as the #2 QB.

The bigger question is if Peyton would want the Fins to spend so many resources for a QB of the future since he wants to win now. RGIII has said he would be fine with that situation in Indy and since it would be the same situation in Miami, I am inferring that he would fine with that as well.

Getting back to the point of the Rams making it clear that the pick is for sale, they're clearly trying to get a bidding war going on this pick while there's still 3 or 4 teams in the market. If I were Ireland, i'd slow play this one, wait and see what Washington and the Browns do in FA first (if we're not sold on Flynn ourselves that is), if Manning and Flynn go to the right teams (Washington/Browns/Miami) the price for this pick drops dramatically IMO.

dolphaholic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Getting back to the point of the Rams making it
> clear that the pick is for sale, they're clearly
> trying to get a bidding war going on this pick
> while there's still 3 or 4 teams in the market. If
> I were Ireland, i'd slow play this one, wait and
> see what Washington and the Browns do in FA first
> (if we're not sold on Flynn ourselves that is), if
> Manning and Flynn go to the right teams
> (Washington/Browns/Miami) the price for this pick
> drops dramatically IMO.


I wouldn't slow play this if I'm Ireland. I'd push them to make a deal before manning hits the market and I'd make it clear to them that if we sign manning or Flynn we will be out of the bidding for that pick.

St Louis needs at least two teams in on the bidding to get a lot for that pick. They'd prefer 3 or 4 teams so the price goes up.

Right now they have that. They have Cleveland, Washington, Miami and Seattle at least. It's their best shot to get the most.

When manning gets cut next week they lose one of those teams. When free agency starts and Flynn signs they lose another.

The best deal they are going to get is in the next 10-14 days. After that they lose bidders and if things shake out the way it's been reported so far....manning to Miami, Flynn to Cleveland and the redskins sitting at 6 to draft Tannehill, then st Louis only has one real trade option left in Seattle and they pick 12th. Hardly an ideal spot to trade down to.

This may all play out until draft day but if it does st louis will have missed a chance to get its best deal.

Depends on how you look at the Rams angle Truth, if they want to give it away at a bargain now (which I don't think they do) then yeah, i'd make the trade now, but if they are trying to jack up the ransom because there's still 4 possible teams in the mix, then i'd wait em out. Right now we still have Manning, Flynn and Tannenhill as options, if Synder want's to overpay then let him.

dolphaholic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Depends on how you look at the Rams angle Truth,
> if they want to give it away at a bargain now
> (which I don't think they do) then yeah, i'd make
> the trade now, but if they are trying to jack up
> the ransom because there's still 4 possible teams
> in the mix, then i'd wait em out. Right now we
> still have Manning, Flynn and Tannenhill as
> options, if Synder want's to overpay then let him.


I'm not sure I follow you.

The way I see it the rams are going to get their best offer before free agency starts. Once that kicks off two of the teams they are talking to will drop out after signing manning or Flynn.

Once that happens I think the offers start to drop frm the remaining teams. If one falls in love with Tannehill then there could well be only one team left in the process and st Louis loses all its leverage.

If you think they will get their best offer AFTER Manning and flynn sign because there will be two desperate bidders that's fine. I disagree.

It could play out that way but if they wait to long the run the risk of having only one interested team and no leverage to get a good deal. They can't risk that unless they are perfectly happy taking kalil or Blackmon #2.

If I'm the st Louis gm I have leverage now to get my best deal and 4 teams interested. Once manning and then Flynn hit the market I start losing leverage that I might never regain.

We should know soon if RGIII is on our Horizon at all. It behoves the Rams to trade the pick before free agency starts.

Truth, I think we're saying the same thing basically, but we're just looking at it from 2 different perspectives, I agree with everything you just said about the Rams wanting to get more now, but from our perspective, why would/should we jump on that? Unless they're shopping it at a bargain basement rate we should just wait em out, I guess we're really playing poker with the Browns, Skins and Seattle at this point, with the Rams being the dealer.

My point is, don't overpay now for 2 reasons; 1. We have other options, and 2. We might be able to get the same trade cheaper in a month or so.

dolphaholic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Truth, I think we're saying the same thing
> basically, but we're just looking at it from 2
> different perspectives, I agree with everything
> you just said about the Rams wanting to get more
> now, but from our perspective, why would/should we
> jump on that? Unless they're shopping it at a
> bargain basement rate we should just wait em out,
> I guess we're really playing poker with the
> Browns, Skins and Seattle at this point, with the
> Rams being the dealer.
>
> My point is, don't overpay now for 2 reasons; 1.
> We have other options, and 2. We might be able to
> get the same trade cheaper in a month or so.

Ok. I get it now.

I just don't think we can wait them out. That would mean passing On manning and Flynn. We cant really do that.

Think of it like a high stakes game of musical chairs from our perspective. We can't get left without a chair when the music stops.

It would be hard for us to pass up manning unless we had already committed to someone else. The only way we could pull that off would be if everyone in the world believed we were taking Tannehill AND Manning went to the redskins. No impossible but very very risky on our end.

It’s a guarantee Philbin & Ireland already know what it will take to move-up to get RG3. So if there’s legit interest they’ll put an offer on the table to STL and “take it or leave it” because there are many other options available.

And I’m firmly in the camp that RG3 is NOT that hot of a commodity for a number of teams for the same reason – there are too many options available.

As far as Manning, I would strongly suspect he would want to play in Miami (as opposed to say Washington) for a number of reasons including the weather, the core program we have going on, and the OL that will be solved @RT and RG.

But I’m not so sure he’s exactly what we want. The health issue is serious and he’s not a WCO type of QB – tho I’m pretty sure he can hang. But 36 with all that mileage and a bad chassis is nothing to take lightly. I just don’t think Philbin is going to be all that hot about taking that kind of swing for the fences right out of the box. But Ross might…

I also think Flynn would love to play in Miami for the same reason + he’d be coming into a perfect system with a coach that believes in him and knows his game inside and out. That’s hard to ignore. So there you have it. Flynn + Moore = QB dilemma solved with good long-term viability. Just add a QB development project via the draft and suddenly we’re not talking about the same thing anymore.

Get a grip because it makes too much sense.

My opinion. Of course.

BNF.

I do agree generally with TT that time is the enemy, not friend, of STL. But I agree with BNF on everything else stated above.