Ross needs to make this happen. Order the staff to do what it takes. Of all the teams that want him, we can afford to give up a few picks becuase we are much more a complete Team. Address needs in free agency , the missing draft picks will only hurt for a year of two.

Heck, I watched a decent amount of video last year this time and it was obvious Gabbert was the better prospect! So it seems someone in Pantherland is either lucky or got knows how to evaluate college QB’s. But I suspect a bit of both.

Mayock’s overall tack record is excellent and IMO he’s highly credible. And I believe his analysis of Luck is 100% dead-on, which I posted in another thread. As far as RG3, some of his flaws are blatantly obvious to an NFL talent evaluating neophyte like me.

First and foremost, RG3 tends to go sidearm and his mechanics are just awful. Does that matter if you can run a 4.4? I still think it does. Right now the kid is HOT. And he’s only going to showcase his best talents and workout in a pre-scripted, highly controlled environment. That doesn’t exactly inspire confidence in me, in fact I think the kid is “hiding something,” and that’s the fact he’s got some serious issues with mechanics and CANNOT make all the NFL throws accurately. He’s got “PROJECT” written all over him. The question is, can a great coaching staff “fix him” in a year and get his superior athletic skills on the field? That’s NOT the kind of deal you look for when you’re trading up and selling the farm.

My opinion of course.

BNF.

Its all about what an individual see's. No way was Gabbert a better prospect than Newton last year. Regarding Mayock and RGII, a Mayock quote from espn:

" ”He doesn’t throw with anticipation, mostly because he doesn’t have to,” said Mayock. “In that offense, there’s minimal footwork and they spread it out so wide. He’s got some talented, gifted receivers, and he’s got great touch and accuracy in medium and deep (throws). He’s got arm strength, he’s got athletic ability, he takes hits, but he doesn’t anticipate throws".

He is correct but the last statement he talks w/ his head up his butt. How can he have such a high completion rate w/ out great timimg which is anticipation? I agree the WCO is not the best for the kid would waste the talent he has on getting the ball downfield.

You don't want/like the guy then you don't want him. Making dumb comments and putting them out as accurate and astute commenting/reporting is for the stupid.

The guy is as much a project as Dalton and Newton.

BigNastyFish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> First and foremost, RG3 tends to go sidearm and
> his mechanics are just awful. Does that matter if
> you can run a 4.4? I still think it does. Right
> now the kid is HOT. And he’s only going to
> showcase his best talents and workout in a
> pre-scripted, highly controlled environment. That
> doesn’t exactly inspire confidence in me, in
> fact I think the kid is “hiding something,”
> and that’s the fact he’s got some serious
> issues with mechanics and CANNOT make all the NFL
> throws accurately. He’s got “PROJECT”
> written all over him. The question is, can a great
> coaching staff “fix him” in a year and get his
> superior athletic skills on the field? That’s
> NOT the kind of deal you look for when you’re
> trading up and selling the farm.

last time i checked luck did not throw at the combines either, so what does that mean about him? The fact is when you work your butt off for 3 years and you get to be a top prospect and heisman winner you would be a fool to let one day ruin all of that and allow another guy that might have a better day than you on that "one" occasion and suddenly you are no longer the top prospect... What do you stand to gain by throwing if you are already the top passing prospect?

Because Luck's arm isn't all that great! He's a technician type with very good athletic skills and he's been incredibly well schooled etc. But he isn't anywhere near a Manning or a Marino. Not even close. But he is NFL ready and should be quite effective in the right system. But he isn't a "system" onto himself.

So WHY risk anything at the combine when your weaknesses are going to be put on display? Same for RG3. It's a cop out for obvious reasons.

As far as Gabbert, the kid had some great looking athletic chops and seemed smart, coachable, and so forth. So far he's a flop, but I'd still like him in our stable with the new coaching staff. I'm just noit going to pay a huge price.

Same for RG3. He's got a lot to like. But I'm not buying at a certain price because there are alternatives.

I would be shocked if we seriously tried to get RG3 because I think we'd have to give a kings ransom.

Getting #8 is a great start for the Fins. Manning and Flynn are still the priority, but I have also read if Mia is serious about RG III, they should put together a pkg and give a deadline for the move. I am taking it for granted that's if Manning and Flynn are off the market.

If the dolphins plan to run the west coast then I would get Flynn. That is the first time I ever said that I would want Flynn. If he fails then they deserve what they got.

I would prefer to get RGIII but tailor the offense around him not run the wc. I would not give more than a 1st and 3r round this year and a 1st in 2013 to get him. Might throw in a player but the rams would have to give up a draft pick.

To many questions w/ Mannings injury for me.

BNF, RGIII doesn't have horrible mechanics. His throwing motion isn't sidearm. Watch the tape.

RGIII doesn't throw all the way over the top like Manning but he throws almost over the top. His release is quick and his passes hardly ever get batted down. The whole point to throwing over the top is to reduce balls batted down.

His feet are great and he should be able to master NFL footwork with good coaching. He is not a project, he just will need time to master the NFL game like every other rookie QB.

RGIII can make all the throws as well. He has great accuracy and has displayed the ability to throw from different platforms as well. I see no reason why he can't make all the throws.

His mechanics and footwork aren't as good as Andrew Luck but they surpass most QB prospects. And remember, he is extremely coachable. Look at his strides since arriving at Baylor. He will improve with good coaching.

I'm sure RG3 will improve with coaching. I mean that better be the case. Not sure what video I checked but his motion (at least in the tape I saw) was almost Vince Youngish (sidearm) - and he looks like he's aiming.

For contrasts sake, there's no way his arm looks as NFL sexy as Mallett's did this time last year. Yea yea I know the other stuff, but the arm matters a lot and...maybe he can, but MAYBE he can't.

Let's put it this way, if we can't bring RG3 in for a private workout - where our coaching staff puts the program together, then I'd pass on him for sure. If we can do that, and they love what they see, and believe they can easily correct the discernable flaws, then make a play - just not an insane one.

Other than that, I don’t want anything to do with Manning. This team has been looking for easy quick fixes and that shit has got to stop. Get back to the basics. Draft some college QB prospects when you the have the chance and develop them.

Not a lot of action in video #1 but #2 shows more... It's interesting to note the "highlights" don't showcase his release and motion in any way whatsoever - in fact it seems to be "hidden" to a certain degree.

Anyway I STILL SEE what I was talking about - the protracted side-armed wind-up etc.
Bottom line this kid does not have classic NFL quality mechanics. Are we at a point in the game that no longer matters? Maybe. But the kid definitely shows signs of aiming (and therefore cannot anticipate throws) and his release point varies depending on the type of pass he’s throwing (note the short dump-off stuff is VERY side armed whereas the deeper stuff in about 3/4.

Again, does this matter in relation to the game this kid is offering? I’m not sure but you better be ready to craft a very specific offense around this guy because he’s never going to be a Marino Manning type of QB.

My opinion.

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ross needs to make this happen. Order the staff to
> do what it takes. Of all the teams that want him,
> we can afford to give up a few picks becuase we
> are much more a complete Team. Address needs in
> free agency , the missing draft picks will only
> hurt for a year of two.


It's not quite that simple. If we trade up to get RG3, you can forget being a contender in 2012 or 2013. He didn't play in an NFL style offense. He didn't take a lot of snaps under center. He made a lot of big plays with buying time with his feet. That's not the West Coast Offense. He'll need to work on his footwork, and become proficient at 3 and 5 step drops and timing routes. He's a super smart kid, and he will learn it. But, he's not going to lead us to a Super Bowl in the next two years.

So, losing the draft picks, which will be at least this year's 1st and 2nd, plus next year's #1, will hurt for the next year or two. But this is what makes that difficult for us to do. This team was built for Parcells' 5 year window, which is now coming to an end. Between now and the end of 2013, the following players' contracts are up: Jake Long, Richie Incognito, Reggie Bush, Anthony Fasano, Davone Bess, Brian Hartline, Randy Starks, Tony McDaniel, Phillip Merling, Koa Misi, Vontae Davis, Sean Smith, and Yeremiah Bell. And you have the natural aging of players, too. By 2014, this team needs to restock at a number of positions, and losing those picks in the RG3 trade will hurt.

I think RG3 is a great prospect, and I'd be happy with him. But, if they do it, they need to blow the team up now and acquire more picks to help build around RG3 for the future. Marshall and Dansby are both getting their last guaranteed money this year. Restructure their deals and ship them off for draft picks. Given the nature of how running backs age, you have to trade Reggie Bush before he hits free agency after this season. Ireland would have to try to lock other guys up long term. It would dramatically change the approach for this season.

Mark, I agree with the change in strategy but you don't want to blow up the whole team. For RGIII to develop successfully it will be extremely helpful to have talented players around him. Look at how Sam Bradford's progression has stalled with no talent around him.

I would not move both Marshall and Bush this year. A #1 WR and pass catching RB will do a lot to help RGIII's progression. Coverages will suffocate the offense if we are trotting Hartline, Bess, and Clyde Gates out at WR. The running game won't be of much help with only the oft injured Daniel Thomas in the backfield. Obviously we could use veteran stop gaps but if we do that why don't we just keep our own guys. Our guys will be more talented unless we sign a top player.

I agree in principal but I think a more subtle shift towards youth would be better. Let older players walk when their contract is up or cut them if they decline in production. Trade selectively and only when the deal is in your favor (JT for a 2nd rounder). We can still win in a few years if some of our old guys are declining as long as we hit on our mid round picks, sign key FA's, and RGIII turns into a stud. We just don't want to get tied up in big financial commitments to older players. For goodness sakes, Dansby is only 30, Marshall is 27, and Bush is 26 with very limited mileage. They will still be productive in three years, though Dansby will likely start to decline.

A problem is that it takes young players time to develop. WRs take 2-3 years to learn to read defenses, run option routes, and beat press coverage. If you get a rookie QB, the best thing to do is to get a young WR to grow with him. Marshall is about the last guy you would want around a rookie QB. You want a young QB to read defenses and throw the ball where coverage dictates it should go. You don't want some guy harassing him about not getting the ball enough and insisting on getting the ball even when triple covered.

Will Marshall, Dansby, and Bush still be on the team in 3 years? The answer is no, most likely for all of them. Marshall's guaranteed money is done at the end of this year. We pay him like a top 5 WR, and he's not one. He will be a cap casualty eventually. Same for Dansby. He counts almost $12M against the cap this year, but his guaranteed money is over after this year. He has missed time with injuries each of the last 4 seasons. He has never even been selected for a Pro Bowl. And in spite of being a team captain, he showed up at 270 lbs this year. He will be a cap casualty as soon as the guaranteed money is gone. Bush has missed time with injuries 5 years in a row. The average RB has a career of 3 years. Bush's contract is up at the end of the year. And RB is now considered an almost disposable position. The odds of him being re-signed are very slim.

If you go with RGIII, you have to totally revamp the roster. This core of players is not going to be here in 3 years. So, you move the big name guys in trades to try to acquire more draft picks to fill in for the picks you traded for RGIII.

Dolfanmark, I agree with alot of your insight, I think depending on how Bush performs this year will dictate his future value with the team... If he has a repeat performance as last year, I would think Ireland resigns him. He made Ireland look good, the best way to keep your job is keep making the boss look good.... Dansby is in trouble, and I agree with your assesment of his injuries, lack of probowl play, and being in horrible shape last year... Marshall, surely will not get paid what he was getting paid, however with a new offense, system, and most likely Qb, who knows how he will perfrom this year...
I agree with you that a young core needs to be established on offense if you go with RG3, but we do have some young players on offense that are still developing, and who knows who will shine... A big target in Marshall and a dump off option like Bush and a versatile player like Clay, could be great options for a young QB. Gates really need to step up a bit this year.... Dont forget these are all Ireland guys, so how he will handle them is up in the air...

I really don't have a strong conviction in RG III that is he is going to be that next great QB, and that is what is needed if a team is going to give up what they will have to give up in this draft to get him.

It will be at least two #1s, a #3, and others. That is a pretty hefty price to pay. Granted, if Miami did give all that up and he became that elite QB, then sure, it was worth it. But it sure is a gamble.

Peyton and Tannehill are better options.

Tannehill is a better option??????


Wow.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dolfanmark, I agree with alot of your insight, I
> think depending on how Bush performs this year
> will dictate his future value with the team... If
> he has a repeat performance as last year, I would
> think Ireland resigns him. He made Ireland look
> good, the best way to keep your job is keep making
> the boss look good.... Dansby is in trouble, and I
> agree with your assesment of his injuries, lack of
> probowl play, and being in horrible shape last
> year... Marshall, surely will not get paid what he
> was getting paid, however with a new offense,
> system, and most likely Qb, who knows how he will
> perfrom this year...
> I agree with you that a young core needs to be
> established on offense if you go with RG3, but we
> do have some young players on offense that are
> still developing, and who knows who will shine...
> A big target in Marshall and a dump off option
> like Bush and a versatile player like Clay, could
> be great options for a young QB. Gates really need
> to step up a bit this year.... Dont forget these
> are all Ireland guys, so how he will handle them
> is up in the air...

I agree that Bush is a great option for a young QB. I disagree on Marshall. Yes, he is a big target. But, his constant demand for the ball is not good. A guy like Manning wouldn't put up with it. A young QB may not stand up to an established veteran player like Marshall. Over the last two years, when you've seen Henne and Moore hold on to the ball too long, who are they locking on to? It's Marshall, because they are waiting for him to get open, because he gets targeted on almost 30% of our pass plays.

If they got RGIII, you have to forget about 2012 and 2013. You are looking at 2014 or 2015. He's a great athlete, with a great arm, great speed, and is really smart and a hard worker. But, he didn't play in a pro style offense. He rarely played under center. He did not play anything close to a west coast offense. It is going to take him time to learn the craft at the next level. And unfortunately, we play in a division where the Patriots have Tom Brady, two unstoppable TEs, tons of salary cap room, and lots of high draft picks. RGIII is not leading us past Tom Brady in the next two years, maybe 3. Peyton Manning might, but a rookie is not.

In 2014, Reggie Bush will be 29, with 8 years under his belt. He is undersized and dealt with injuries his whole career. Running backs have short shelf lives. He makes $6M this year, and if he has a good year, he will be looking to get paid again. But, big money to running backs approaching 30 is not money well spent. It is extremely unlikely he will be on the team in 2014. It's not anything against him. It's just a fact of the NFL.

In 2014, Brandon Marshall will be 30 years old. He has already had one knee surgery and two hip surgeries. He is one off field incident away from a year long suspension. And he makes more than $9M per season. His salaries are not guaranteed after 2012. So, after 2012, he can be cut and free up a lot of cap space. That becomes important if the team wants to keep Jake Long, Cam Wake, and Vontae Davis. I think the odds of him being on the team in 2014 are very slim.

At most positions, this is a team that was built with the intent of contending now. In the next two years, you are faced with losing Long, Bush, Fasano, Bess, Hartline, Starks, Wake, Davis, Smith, and Bell. The core could be breaking up very soon. And you will need a new core by the team 2014 rolls around. So, you start planning for that now.