Honestly, RG3 would be better in GB's system than Luck would, in my opinion.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Maybe he's a backup simply because rodgers is on the team...maybe he's good enough to start otherwise. Fact is all four guys are questions at this point.

Yeah, if you say you don't want to give up the farm to get Luck or RGIII, I respect that opinion.

I DON'T AGREE WITH IT! But I respect it.

However, paying free agent money to Flynn when we have Moore and could take a chance of a late round QB doesn't make sense to me.

And to you A & O, one can always cite historical examples of 2nd string QBs like Steve Young becoming great after they get a chance.

But the problem with examples like that are that they are the exception not the rule.

In other words, if you could point to 50 examples, if most 2nd string QBs behind great QBs were INVARIABLY great themselves, then I'd be on board.

The last thing I want to do at this point is to take in another Matt Moore who has not even shown the talent Matt Moore has.

And just because Philbin coached him, what guarantee is that of his greatness?

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Aqua&Orange Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Chyren,
> >
> > I think its the most likely scenario. Yes.
>
>
> Let me ask you a question. If you were Matt
> Flynn, considering all the variable including even
> (though not likely) the fact that Henne might
> stay, the fact that Moore performed well in spots,
> would you come here over some other place? Or
> even, since Aaron Rodgers was hurt in the
> divisional playoffs, would you really want to
> move?


You left out "What if he wants to quit football to pursue a career as a ballerina?"

Seriously...your question went off the tracks the minute you suggested he'd turn down financial security for the rest of his life to carry a clipboard as Aaron Rodgers understudy.





>
> Let me ask you another question, if you were
> Philbin and had a realistic chance of trading up
> to get RGIII or Luck, would you be satisfied with
> convincing Flynn to come over.

You'll never know.

Flynn will be signed by someone by mind march. Most draft trades won't heat up until mid april.




>
> What has Matt Flynn done that has you guys so
> mesmerized that you would even disregard a chance
> to get Luck or RGIII?


Good question. He really hasn't done much. But he's the one option with upside that wouldn't cost us a boatload of draft picks to go get. That's why he's attractive.

Frankly, it won't surprise me if we have ZERO interest in Flynn based on Philbin's inside info.



>
> That's crazy to me.


No comment

Chyren,

Here is the bottom line, if you are trusting in Matt Moore...which you basically just inferred, then I dont really have anything to say to you, my friend.

You made the comment:

"However, paying free agent money to Flynn when we have Moore"

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

By that I meant, A & O that at best Flynn is another Matt Moore without even having done what Matt has done in the past few games.

Next Post for the Truth.

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Chyren,
>
> Here is the bottom line, if you are trusting in
> Matt Moore...which you basically just inferred,
> then I dont really have anything to say to you, my
> friend.
>
> You made the comment:
>
> "However, paying free agent money to Flynn when we
> have Moore"

It really just comes down to this:

We KNOW Moore and Henne are NOT franchise QB's.

Flynn MIGHT be and we just hired the one guy who would likely know best if he has that kind of upside.

And our chances of adding Flynn to our roster are far greater than trading up for Luck or Griffin.

Its really going to be interesting to see who this plays out.

Bottom Line. Flynn is a Moore who has not shown what Moore has.

I'm willing to trade the farm for Luck or RGIII.

At least, they haven't been sitting on an NFL bench not proving anything.

You guys keep loading your arguments with words like "he has the most upside/"
How the hell do you know? Upon what statistics do you base that claim.

I could say that about Luck or RG given their college career.

But from what someone said on this board, Flynn didn't even show a helluva lot in College. He was mediocre on a mediocre team.

So why is he supposed to be great just because he back up Aaron Rodgers?????

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ChyrenB Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> ,
> > > would you come here over some other place?
> Or
> > > even, since Aaron Rodgers was hurt in the
> > > divisional playoffs, would you really want to
> > > move?
> >
> THE Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > You left out "What if he wants to quit football
> to
> > pursue a career as a ballerina?"
> >
> > Seriously...your question went off the tracks
> the
> > minute you suggested he'd turn down financial
> > security for the rest of his life to carry a
> > clipboard as Aaron Rodgers understudy.
>
>
> Ahhhh!! The Truth. My main man! But what makes
> you so certain that that security might not be
> matched or offered by Green Bay. I don't know the
> extent of Rodgers injury but if I were the Packers
> coaching staff (the ones who are not leaving with
> Philbin), I might want to look carefully at
> matching any offer made to Flynn. That's from the
> standpoint of the Packers.


Absurd. You just never know when to abandon a bad argument. You'll fight it to the death.

Flynn is in line to get a starting job paying 8-12 mill per for 4-6 years.

Show me one team that has a BACKUP qb with that type of long term BIG dollar commitment and I'll concede the point. When you can't I'll take your silence as your concession.



>
> From the standpoint of Flynn, I might figure on
> being more comfortable with a chance to be the
> "Steve Young" to "Joe Montana" as A & O says in
> another post, than to try to come down and beat
> out Moore and possible even Henne if he re-signs
> for peanuts with Miami.


1- Aaron Rodgers just turned 28. Matt Flynn is 27 in June. The montanna/Young comparison doesn't fly. Young knew he was getting the job in a year or two. Flynn isn't taking less money to be a back up for his entire career. The notion is so absurd it could only come from you.

2- Forget Henne. He's a FA like Flynn. We aren't signing both of them.

3- The idea that Flynn would be afraid to compete with Moore and/or Henne but would be comfortable fighting with AARON RODGERS for playing time is comical.





>
> THE Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > You'll never know.
> >
> > Flynn will be signed by someone by mid march.
> > Most draft trades won't heat up until mid
> april.
>
> RESPONSE: So what's to say he will be signed by
> us or any other team rather than Green Bay?


Economics. There are 10 or more teams in the NFL looking for a QB upgrade. He's the only possible one on the Market.

Someone will pay him many times the peanuts he would make carrying Rodgers jock in GB.

And in the era of a salary cap...you don't want to be left standing when the music stops...you take the best deal you can get within a reasonable time BEFORE the teams that are interested in you start spend that money on other players.

Flynn will be signed within the first 10 days of FA along with most of the top players on the open market.





>
> > ChyrenB Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > What has Matt Flynn done that has you guys so
> > > mesmerized that you would even disregard a
> > chance
> > > to get Luck or RGIII?
> >
> THE Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Good question. He really hasn't done much.
> But
> > he's the one option with upside that wouldn't
> cost
> > us a boatload of draft picks to go get.
> That's
> > why he's attractive.
> >
> > Frankly, it won't surprise me if we have ZERO
> > interest in Flynn based on Philbin's inside
> info.
> >
> RESPONSE: So you disagree with me ON EVERYTHING
> except the bottom line conclusion of my position.
> LOL.


Your conclusion that Matt Flynn is an unknown is sound. However, the logic you used to support that conclusion was flawed beyond belief.

But hey, even a blind squirrel finds an acorn now and then.




>
> I don't even think it is proved that he is an
> upside option. He is a free agent, just like
> Henne. However, unlike Henne, who at least began
> to show flashes at the end, he hasn't, as you say,
> shown much of anything.


He has two starts against playoff teams that are better than any single game Henne has turned in.

Its why he has POTENTIAL and henne does not.


>
> My whole point, Truth is, I don't want to hear
> these same people who are bitching and moaning now
> about Henne and Moore bitch and moan about Flynn
> and even having the nerve to come back and prove
> their moaning that "Flynn Sucks" by pointing to
> the fact that he never did do anything either in
> pro OR IN COLLEGE.


Fair enough. You are either on board with him or not. Ireland will make that decision at the end based on what he hears about Flynn from Philbin.

If they think that's the best way to go then so be it. their careers will be judged by that decision. They better be right.

But Flynn is clearly the one option we CAN go get. He's a free agent. We just hired his coach. We have deep pockets. The other options in the draft are long shots at best...not based on their ability but based on OUR ability to move up to select one of them.





>
> Wasn't it you that had to convince me from last
> year to this year that YEAH, LET'S DRAFT A
> FRANCHISE QB?


I say that every year...especially when I think there are franchise QB's in that draft.

But that's not always the case.

I said last year I'd take Newton...and I'd trade up for Mallett if he passed the sniff test off the field...which he clearly didn't.

This year I'd sell the farm for Luck or Griffin. I think they will both be big stars in the league.




>
> Now that I've finally got the Luck RGIII bug, you
> want to settle for another Matt Moore? Only one
> that hasn't shown even what Moore has shown?
> >


Nope. Everyone should have their favorites. No issues with that...but there's more than one way to skin a cat.

If Flynn is a franchise QB in Philbin's system then he's a no- brainer. He only costs money.

If he's not then we need to trade up.

The point is that NOBODY, except POSSIBLY those on the GB staff, can say with any certainty that Flynn is or is not that good.

If you want Griffin instead...that's great....but justifying that preference by saying Flynn is another Matt Moore isn't accurate. You have no idea what Flynn is or isn't.

Someone else said it here. Philbin isn't coming here to fail. He Knows Flynn, if he is willing to ride his career on this Kid , I'll certainly give him the benifit of the doubt.

I hope the Change of Atmosphere helps the family as well.

I was hoping McCoy got it though. WTF happened there? They all but officially reported it as a done deal this afternoon.......

I like the hire and I like the fact that he knows Flynn better than anybody. If Flynn's the real deal, we could be set at QB.

Good luck, coach!

I just don't understand the big love affair with Flynn. He could be the next Steve Young. Or he could be the next AJ Feeley. Or Kevin Kolb. Or Matt Cassell. He is as big an unknown as drafting a QB. I wouldn't want to give up the farm for him, only to find out he's the next Clint Longley.

While one game needs to be taken with a grain of salt, I don't think it's right to represent Flynn's performance against Detroit as coming in a game where the Lions phoned it in. The Lions were playing for a higher seed in the playoffs and a home game. Had they won that Packer game, they would have hosted the Giants in the first round. A loss sent them to New Orleans. The Lions wanted to win that game. It was not phoned in.

You have to look at salaries. Matt Moore, who had a beyond terrible 2010, signed a contract with us for $2.5M per year. Tyler Thigpen got a contract that pays him $3.5M a year. Chad Henne is not going to re-sign in Miami for peanuts. He will land somewhere with a deal around $2.5-3M. Flynn is going to get more money than that, because some teams are going to see him as a potential starter. We are not going to have 3 QBs under contract all making over $2.5M. Heck, we are going to have to restructure some contracts just to fit Flynn in under the cap.

Matt Moore is not a west coast offense QB. He is not accurate enough. Plain and simple.

We, as fans, do not know what Flynn is. He may be garbage. But, the whole point is, Philbin does know Flynn. Philbin has coached Flynn every day for the last 4 years. He is not basing his opinion on Flynn on the two games he has started. He is basing it on what he saw everyday on the practice field and in the meeting rooms. If Philbin goes hard after Flynn, it's a good sign that Flynn has his confidence. And as fans, we should feel great about that. It won't represent a coach making a guess, like trading a 2nd rounder for AJ Feeley. It will be a coach making an educated decision.

If Flynn is wanted here, we will have a huge advantage in luring him. In Miami, he would have a chance to continue playing in the same offense he has been in for 4 years, and playing for a coach that has his back. He would be in a much better position to succeed here with Philbin, and if he is smart, he would take that into consideration.

I don't believe the demand for Flynn is going to be as high as some are claiming. The Packers would be taking a huge risk by franchising him. If they franchise him, they guarantee him a $15M salary. That is crazy for a team to commit to for a guy who has started two games in 4 years. And if they franchise tag him, they expose Jermichael Finley and Scott Wells, two guys who are among the best at their respective positions. So, if Flynn isn't franchised, that's a huge burden lifted. Are the 49ers going to franchise tag Alex Smith? If not, he's a free agent. What about Peyton Manning? There's also Jason Campbell and Kyle Orton. It's not like Flynn is the only guy on the market. You will also have Luck and RG3 in the draft. And Ryan Tannehill is exactly the kind of guy who is going to work his way up draft boards into the first round.

And when it comes to Flynn's market value, you have to ask what West Coast Offense teams are in the market for a starting QB? Teams that aren't running west coast offenses aren't going to shell out big bucks for a guy like Flynn. So, the demand for Flynn may not be as great as people think. If Philbin believes Flynn is right to lead his offense, I wouldn't be surprised if we could get him for 5 years, $30-35M.

flynn is different than, say, feidler or kolb in that he's played 2 games as a starter, both wins, both very impressive---against the pats last year and a record setting game against a playoff team in DET. That's more than any of these other backup types ever did. The one guy who knows him better than anyone is about to be our HC. He's not going to hitch his fortunes to someone he has doubts about. So if philbin wants to sign flynn, then I've got to think he's got something special. He is installing the system that is best for him. If he's wrong, they are both gone in 3 years and we are the worse fot it. But if he's right, then we've got our QB, our full allotment of draft picks, and we are playoff bound. I will take that over no draft for the next 2 years and a "maybe" franchise QB in RG3 and Mike McCoy.
And to anyone who thinks Flynn is gonna re-sign in GB, or sign for anything less than his closest comparitor--Kevin Kolb---well you just don't know anything.

Mark, I'm not saying that Detroit laid down for Flynn but I am saying that Detroit had a playoff in hand, although maybe not a better seed, and that this has to be taken into account in the game.

Moreover, the score was what 45 to 41, looked like a free for all to me. Although Flynn was not playing defense for GB, doesn't look like there was much defense on either side.

Secondly, yes it is true that Philbin should know about Flynn. However, shouldn't our coaches have known about Flynn even if our choice had been McCoy?

Do you get me???????

I mean our choice for Flynn should not be dictated by the fact that we have a coach that has coached him because 9 times out of 10 you are going to have to make that decision without such a unique circumstance.

Moreover, even if he says that Flynn is great (you would hardly expect him to say, "Hey that guy I was responsible for coaching sucks big time eggs" is it worth enough not to sell the farm to get RGIII???

It all still comes back to the fact that here is a guy who was nothing in college, nothing in the pros, and had one good game.

Now we can't be SO PREJUDICED against Henne and SO DOWN ON HIM to say that he has never had a good game. I mean, come on.

Moreover, Henne did what he did handicapped by an obsession to run the wildcat.

Were they running the Wildcat in that Detroit-Packer game?

This is not to mention Moore who I think is better than Henne.

Now I don't know who is saying that the Packers will franchise Flynn.

Certainly not me. I would never contemplate that happening.

I'm simply saying, you want to hire Philbin, go ahead but even he will, I'd bet your dime against my dollar, be salivating to grab RGIII or Luck if he can and not want to risk the future of his coaching on a second string quarterback he coached.

if philbin wants another QB than Flynn, then at least we know Flynn is not the guy. No one knows Flynn better than Philbin. And Philbin isn't going to hitch his wagon to someone he doesn't believe in. At least with Philbin we'll know if Flynn is worth signing.

Chyren, one thing you must take into account is that there was once fellow who went by Phinsfan2, who actually believed that Trent Green was a savior brought in by his idol Cam.

I can't disagree with anything you said berk because every statement above is a truism.

Didn't remember that, Da Truuth. LOL.

The same Phinsfan2 also believed Jonathan Beck to be the answer. Once that became unpopular then hitched his wagon to Chad Henne.

See a pattern?

da truuth you are making comments only someone who's been on this board for 5 years would know, yet you just registered. who were you before? not mia1 I know....

DaMiaThunderThumperStunnerGoganVicTruuthTaylor#1.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Okay, a new HC. The cards have been shuffled and the cards dealt, now let's see those aces.

Congratulations Joe Philbin, this is a wonderful leadership opportunity. Make it happen.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mark, I'm not saying that Detroit laid down for
> Flynn but I am saying that Detroit had a playoff
> in hand, although maybe not a better seed, and
> that this has to be taken into account in the
> game.

Not just a better seed at stake, but a HOME playoff game was at stake.

>
> Secondly, yes it is true that Philbin should know
> about Flynn. However, shouldn't our coaches have
> known about Flynn even if our choice had been
> McCoy?
>
> Do you get me???????
>
> I mean our choice for Flynn should not be dictated
> by the fact that we have a coach that has coached
> him because 9 times out of 10 you are going to
> have to make that decision without such a unique
> circumstance.
>

I don't think the choice of Flynn is because of our coach. I am sure are scouts and coaches have ideas on Flynn. But, their ideas on Flynn are based on his career at LSU and what little film they have seen of him. Philbin's ideas of Flynn are based on 4 years of working with him daily. If Philbin says Flynn can be the guy to run his offense, his opinion means a lot. Think of it this way. When we traded a 2nd rd pick for AJ Feeley, it was a huge leap of faith. We were "hoping" that Feeley would be the answer. Philbin knows enough about Flynn that "hoping" is not part of the equation.


> Moreover, even if he says that Flynn is great (you
> would hardly expect him to say, "Hey that guy I
> was responsible for coaching sucks big time eggs"
> is it worth enough not to sell the farm to get
> RGIII???

Yes. Absolutely. With a salary cap, building a roster is a game of resource management. Getting RG3 is going to cost draft picks and big dollars. And he is completely unknown commodity. Flynn just costs money. And since Philbin has worked with him for 4 years, and that Flynn has played in NFL games, and played well, Flynn is a much more known commodity. RG3 doesn't play in a west coast offense. He doesn't even take snaps under center most of the time. RG3 holds on to the ball a long time and buys himself time to throw with his feet. The west coast offense demands quick reads and perfect timing. I'm not saying he can't do it, but it would be a large learning curve for him. Flynn already has 4 years in that system.

>
> It all still comes back to the fact that here is a
> guy who was nothing in college, nothing in the
> pros, and had one good game.

This is unfair to Flynn. Yes, he was behind Jamarcus Russell for 3 years. But, in his one starting season, LSU went 11-2, won the national championship, and he was voted the Offensive MVP of the championship game, throwing for 4 TDs. In his one other college start, he led LSU to a 40-3 win over Miami in the Peach Bowl, again winning offensive MVP of that game. In his first NFL start, he was 24 for 37 for 251 yards, 3 TD, and 1 INT in a 31-27 loss to the Patriots. In his 2nd NFL start, he was 31 for 44, for 480 yards, 6 TD, and 1 INT. So, two career starts, 55 for 81, 731 yards, 9 TD, and 2 INT. It is just two starts. And he did only start one season in college. But, when he has had the chance, he has played extremely well, at both levels.

>
> Now we can't be SO PREJUDICED against Henne and SO
> DOWN ON HIM to say that he has never had a good
> game. I mean, come on.

I certainly never said that, and am Henne's biggest supporter. Unfortunately for Henne, he is probably going to land in NY with Sparano, and while he will beat out Sanchez, he will continue to be handcuffed by the ultra conservative Sparano.

>
> Moreover, Henne did what he did handicapped by an
> obsession to run the wildcat.
>
> Were they running the Wildcat in that
> Detroit-Packer game?
>
> This is not to mention Moore who I think is better
> than Henne.
>
> Now I don't know who is saying that the Packers
> will franchise Flynn.
>
> Certainly not me. I would never contemplate that
> happening.
>
> I'm simply saying, you want to hire Philbin, go
> ahead but even he will, I'd bet your dime against
> my dollar, be salivating to grab RGIII or Luck if
> he can and not want to risk the future of his
> coaching on a second string quarterback he
> coached.

But, he knows Flynn. He worked with him every day. And Flynn knows his offense. He has broken down NFL film with Flynn and knows what Flynn can see and can't see. Philbin may not believe in Flynn. We will see when free agency hits. But, if Philbin believes in Flynn, then we should, too, because Philbin is the most qualified guy to judge him. Aaron Rodgers sat behind Brett Favre for 3 years. Tom Brady, a 6th rd draft pick, sat behind Drew Bledsoe, and got his shot because of an injury. Matt Schaub sat behind Michael Vick for 3 years. And he got a huge contract based on 2 starts that were much worse than Flynn's two starts. The fact that Flynn is a 2nd string QB isn't scary. He's behind Aaron Rodgers. And there is no question that Flynn needed time to learn. But, maybe he is ready run his own team. I don't know that he is. But, Philbin does.

DA TRUUTH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Chyren, one thing you must take into account is
> that there was once fellow who went by Phinsfan2,
> who actually believed that Trent Green was a
> savior brought in by his idol Cam.


Nonsense



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/2012 04:27AM by THE Truth.