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          Our New Offense
Miami Dolphins Civilized Discussion :  Phins.com Phorums The fastest message board... ever.
This is a moderated phorum for the CIVILIZED discussion of the Miami Dolphins. In this phorum, there are rules and moderators to make sure you abide by the rules. The moderators for this phorum are JC and Colonel
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Our New Offense
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: August 05, 2011 09:34AM

I have heard Reggie Bush describe it as a West Coast style offense.

I have heard Sparano repeatedly talk about doing things on offense so we are not predictable...

For instance if we send a package in with Bush, because of Bush's flexibility of where he can line up, will create problems for defense's matching personel with us and calling the right defensive formation based on our personell

Sparano said it is also a reason for Charles clay, he can go in, and dfenses will have no idea, where he might be at...
They could send Bush and Clay in and run a power formation or they could spread it out with those guys and run a shotgut with no RB in the backfield at all...

The offense is suppose to be a quick read offense which will fit with Henne great. Quick read and throw...Quick read and throw...

I am telling you guys I am starting like what I am seeing, reading and hearing from and about our offense..

It is gonna be smart fast paced offense that spreads the ball around..
I think that is main reason they are using Reggie Bush as the primary back is to create that unpredicatablilty. It sounds like Sparano son is doing a good job with this idea of offensive quality control



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2011 09:38AM by Crowder52.

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Re: Our New Offense
Posted by: Aqua&Orange ()
Date: August 05, 2011 09:37AM

Thats fine and dandy.

My still lingering concern is, if we are down by 3 points with 2 minutes left, are we gonna be able to win the game...or atleast send it to overtime?

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

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Re: Our New Offense
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: August 05, 2011 09:50AM

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
if we are down by 3 points with 2 minutes left, are we gonna be able
> to win the game...or atleast send it to overtime?


I would like to think so. But as you and I both understand that is gonna be impossible to tell until the season actually starts and we are down by 3 with 2 minutes left.

The offense and Henne are gonna be better then last year. Your boy Henne has put together some solid practices since the monday night booing. Omar Kelly, who hates Henne said the last 2 days are his best days he has ever seen Henne practice... That is encouraging... I have read every receiver from Gates to Bush to Hartline,etc have caught long 40 to 50 yards TD passes from Henne the last couple days.
Sparano points out that Daboll, came from defensive coaching with Belichick, and he comes from the ideas with his offensive cordinating and coaching Henne, how to pick apart what the defenses and coverage unit is trying to do to him, where he needs to be and put the ball to bust their coverage.....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2011 10:19AM by Crowder52.

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Re: Our New Offense
Posted by: berkeley223 ()
Date: August 05, 2011 11:17AM

yes, Daboll is installing his high-flying Cleveland Brown's offensive system! spinning smiley sticking its tongue out

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Re: Our New Offense
Posted by: eesti ()
Date: August 05, 2011 12:25PM

West coast style prob a mix of NE offense with multiple packages. I do like the versatility of our new players and formations. I hope Henne can pick it up in the next month. He had somewhat of a head start but with his own interpretation of the playbook.

The WCO is know for taking years for qbs to learn.

Now I understand the flirtation with Carson Palmer and him being our first choice on the wish list. Would be nice if we could make a big move and get Brown to realize it would benefit him to move Carson. He could make his point with the next cincy holdout.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

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Re: Our New Offense
Posted by: dolfanmark ()
Date: August 05, 2011 01:16PM

Henne played in a version of the west coast offense at Michigan. It used many west coast concepts, but featured deeper drops and deeper routes than a traditional west coast offense.

As we read earlier this offseason, on a breakdown of tape, the Fins used a 5 step drop on 95% of pass plays last season. Having an offense that varies, using 1, 3, 5, and 7 step drops will make it more QB friendly. With all 5 step drops, you make it easy on pass rushers, make it easier to bat passes at the line, and make it easier on DBs because the timing of the 5 step drop limits what routes you can use.

IMO, a mistake to this point in his career is that the Fins have tried to force Henne into being this short to intermediate range game managing QB. That is not how he played at Michigan. Henne was at his best in college when he was airing it out downfield, with the defense spread out. And I don't necessarily mean fly routes down the sideline. I mean deep outs and post routes, too. They have changed his playing style, in part, because of other limitations. If you don't have deep threats at WR, or the line to block, or the running game to keep the defense honest, you can't throw the deep ball. How many times have we heard Sparano say, "we had 2 deep passes called, but we didn't get the protection up front", or "we didn't get the matchup we wanted." Ok, number 1, you need more than 2 deep passes. If you want to have success throwing deep, you need to keep trying, and do it more often so that you get better at it. And secondly, they need the rest of the pieces of the puzzle to come together to help allow the deep passing game to succeed. This is where Henne is at his best. Just ask Mario Manningham and Braylon Edwards.

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Re: Our New Offense
Posted by: dolphaholic ()
Date: August 05, 2011 01:39PM

Tony S was just axed in his press conf if we are running a version of the West Coast O and he flatly said no!

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Re: Our New Offense
Posted by: jlyell13 ()
Date: August 05, 2011 07:48PM

As long as henne can hit receivers and execute in the red zone

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Re: Our New Offense
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: August 06, 2011 02:12AM

dolphaholic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tony S was just axed in his press conf if we are
> running a version of the West Coast O and he
> flatly said no!


Dolph- the reason TOny said that is becasue the west coast offense is a pass first offense. So in theory Sparano is right. He will never have a pass first offense..

But Reggie Bush is right as well when he described it as a West Coast offense because the Dolphins and Daboll are emphasizing a short, horizontal passing attack to help stretch the defense out, thus opening up options for longer running plays and longer passes that can achieve greater gains. And that is a core philosophy of a West Coast Offense Bill Walsh Style...

SO TOny is right you can not have a West Coast Offense if you run first or emphasize the run opening up the passing game..
But the spread attack and quick passes could be considered a spread or West Coast passing attack. WHich is what Bush was obviously refering to IMO. Cause that is what the Saints do, a Spread passing offense that draws from those same passing pricinciple as the West Coast offensive style.

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Re: Our New Offense
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: August 06, 2011 02:17AM

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> yes, Daboll is installing his high-flying
> Cleveland Brown's offensive system! spinning smiley sticking its tongue out


I am going to Venture a guess that if Daboll, had our offensive players, from Bess, TO Marhsall, to Fasano, Gates, Reggie Bush, it might have been a much more exciting high flying offense...
Just out of curiosity did any of you watch the game last year, where the Browns absolutley crushed the Patriots... Also didnt Daboll have the RB who performed so well he made the cover of madden from his performance last year.... Ok, just checking...

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Re: Our New Offense
Posted by: dolphaholic ()
Date: August 06, 2011 02:46AM

I wasn't thrilled with the Dough-ball hire, but the more I'm seeing he's the anti Henning, the more I'm gettin a mini chub over our new spinning smiley sticking its tongue out.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/06/2011 03:20AM by dolphaholic.

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Re: Our New Offense
Posted by: berkeley223 ()
Date: August 06, 2011 04:41AM

they ranked lower than us in offense last year. so I am taking a wait and see approach with this guy before I assume he has any offensive cred. he used to be a D coach with the pats if I recall

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Re: Our New Offense
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: August 06, 2011 04:59AM

Berk,
He was brought in by Belichick in 2000 and was a Defensive assistant coach. Then by 2002 he was the Patriots WR coach, he stayed with the team for six years. Then he was hired away to be the Jets QB coach when Mangini went to New York. Then when Mangini was fired, Daboll went to Cleveland with him in an ungraded role as OC... Mangini was a good cordintor, just not a good head coach. Mangini got screwed over in New York by Tannenbaum, with him drafting Vernon Gholston and the Brett Farve debacle among other things.
All of Dabolls roots, are Belichick roots, every job he had, he worked for either Belichick or one of his excoaches from New England...

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Re: Our New Offense
Posted by: dolphaholic ()
Date: August 06, 2011 05:30AM

Like I said, he's not Dan Henning........that makes him alright in my book.

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Re: Our New Offense
Posted by: Jim B ()
Date: August 06, 2011 05:43AM

Our offense will contain a new system w/ new terminology.

1) More 3 WR sets
2) Multiple role receivers --- Everyone is interchangeable
3) Contains some spread elements to get the RB in space /w mismatch
4) Increased Usage of the H-back & TE
5) Variation of QB drops and timing


It is basically a blend of the New England and New Jersey Jets offenses.

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Re: Our New Offense
Date: August 06, 2011 05:47AM

At this point Its apparent that Henne is our QB. I'll stop crying about it now. I have no faith in him ever throwing a 3-400 yd game. At this point I'm hoping he just improves enough to play mistake free football. Make better decisions, Stop turning the ball over and maybe the new OC can coach him to stop telegraphing every goddamned play behind center.

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Re: Our New Offense
Posted by: dolphaholic ()
Date: August 06, 2011 05:51AM


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Re: Our New Offense
Posted by: Phinsfan2 ()
Date: August 06, 2011 06:32AM


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Re: Our New Offense
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: August 06, 2011 06:38AM

I promise you PF2, Sparano did not give Henning marching orders... That is a fallacy...
Henning called the game not Sparano... come on now...

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Re: Our New Offense
Posted by: Phinsfan2 ()
Date: August 06, 2011 06:52AM


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Re: Our New Offense
Posted by: dolphaholic ()
Date: August 06, 2011 06:58AM

I always got the feeling that Henning had more freedom to do what he wanted because Bill talked him out of retirement. Could be wrong on that assumption, who knows?

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Re: Our New Offense
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: August 06, 2011 07:06AM

What I am saying was that Henning was Parcells guy, and came out of retirement for Parcells not for Sparano. Henning gave Sparano more advice or orders then Sparano ever gave Henning. Sparano trusted Henning becasue Parcells told him to, and Henning was much higher in the hierarchy of football then Sparano, even though Sparano was his HC. Sparano said several times his first year, how nice it was to just hand the offense off to Henning, which allowed him to focus on the greater resposibiities of being a head coach. Sparano is an offensive coach, but he still let Henning called the plays, what does that tell you... It tells me that Hennings was in charge of the offense.. Sparano macromanaged Henning if he managed him at all. WHich is when and why came the change... Sparano interjected himself like a headcoach would do at times, but I can promise you nobody was changing Dan Henning at his age, and he didnt listen to many people nor care what they thought...

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Re: Our New Offense
Posted by: Phinsfan2 ()
Date: August 06, 2011 07:43AM


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Re: Our New Offense
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: August 06, 2011 08:31AM

mmmm History, one of my favorites, and D-day at that, one of my favorite days in all of history to study and talk about...
Rommel was Commander of the Defences of the Atlantic Wall, of course it is his fault and more speicific the French Coastline. Sure they were fooled by our fake troops and movement on the northern front. But Rommel area was rainsacked, and he was resposibile for securing Normandy. He though it was so fortified no one would ever attack the beach heads... ANd to be honest Rommel was right it should never have been over run.. They had high ground fortification, etc. The Allies just wanted it more that day, end of story... I think if you did those battles ten times, the Allies should only have won, once in ten... SO i am not sure this is quite the same comparison, as Dan Henning and Tony Sparano in Miami,,,, but I enjoyed the try..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/06/2011 08:45AM by Crowder52.

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Re: Our New Offense
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: August 06, 2011 08:44AM

And I am not laying all the blame on Henning. I like Henning it just wasnt the right personell for his system any more.

When you have resposibilties like Sparano, you hire people and then you trust in them. You dont undermind them, you rarely over rule them. TO run an organization with as many moving parts as an NFL football team, you have to macromanage the coaches, especially one with as much experience and wisdom as Henning who was put in place by your Boss, and the guy who gave you your shot.

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Re: Our New Offense
Posted by: Phinsfan2 ()
Date: August 06, 2011 08:53AM


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Re: Our New Offense
Posted by: dolfanmark ()
Date: August 06, 2011 09:07AM

Henning's history as a coach says that he is not the ultra-conservative culprit. Henning has always been willing to be more aggressive on offense. I remember Henning's first stint as our OC, back in 1980. Bob Griese got hurt, Don Strock got hurt, and the Fins had to turn to rookie David Woodley, who had not even been a full-time starter in college. To make him more comfortable, Henning ran the QB option the rest of the year. Henning also ran pass happy offenses in future jobs. And he was experimenting with the wildcat in Carolina before he retired. He was always willing to be a little bold, and different. I believe that Sparano is the guy who reined Henning in, much like JJ did with Kippy Brown. In the Green Bay game last year, we got the ball right before the half around midfield. Instead of a Hail Mary, we ran out the clock. When asked why, Sparano said that it was because Green Bay intercepted a Hail Mary the week before, and almost ran it back for a TD. Now, there is a guy who is way too conservative for his own good.

I believe that after the Harbaugh fiasco, Ross told Sparano in no uncertain teams to let the new OC be more aggressive.

I thought Henning didn't handle the playcalling well at all. And I don't think we called plays that went to the strengths of our personnel. And I think we stubbornly stuck with things that, we proved week in and week out, did not work. But, ultimately, I think Henning was calling the offense the way Sparano wanted.

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Re: Our New Offense
Posted by: Phinsfan2 ()
Date: August 06, 2011 09:26AM


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Re: Our New Offense
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: August 06, 2011 09:28AM


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Re: Our New Offense
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: August 06, 2011 09:36AM

You are really taking the position that it was Sparano who was the one who kept Henning from being successful...WOW...

The only point I could see that this works, would be with the Wildcat, becasue that was obviously brought on by Sparano on the long flight back from Arizona, after the loss. WIldcat wasnt Henning, so I would agree on that point only...
Not on the overall conservative nature of the offense, that was part of Hennings offensive game plan



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/06/2011 09:39AM by Crowder52.

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