Schefter say this is to happen by tomorrow

Also interesting fact Shcefter reported, Jake Delhomme made 19.65 million dollars last year and was just released from Cleveland... $12.65 came from Carolina, and the other seven million from Cleveland... WOW, Delhommes done robbed the bank on some foolslast year...

so it looks like we are the only player left for orton

I expect a deal for one of our DEs to DEN soon

I hope not, that would be our major FA signing, and I am not even sure he will be the best QB on our roster and or start...

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> so it looks like we are the only player left for
> orton
>
> I expect a deal for one of our DEs to DEN soon


Denver is said to be re-interested after hearing him drop his per year price for us.

Denver just acquired a DE from Washington for Jabbar Gaffney, no one elite...

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> berkeley223 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > so it looks like we are the only player left
> for
> > orton
> >
> > I expect a deal for one of our DEs to DEN soon
>
>
> Denver is said to be re-interested after hearing
> him drop his per year price for us.

totally transparent ploy to drive up our trade comp. Orton doesn't want to be Tebow's backup, and Den doesn't want a malcontent Orton around if Tebow wins the competition. I hope we don't fall for this, but we always seem to get squeezed in trades (Harrington, Trent Green---man how many QBs have we traded for??)

Does orton want to be Henne's back up. If I was Orton then I would go to where I thought I could win the starting job... I am not sure he thinks he can beat out Henne who has a head start on the system, more then he thinks he can beat out Tebow... Do you?

MIA's QB position is as open as any in the league. If Orton is worried about beating out Henne I'd be worried about trading for Orton

I am just saying I dont think Tebow is a better QB then Henne at this point and i am not sure Orton is either..

the decked is stacked again Orton in Den, as Tebow is a fan favorite, and DEN wants to see what they have in him.

True, at least Chad Henne doesnt have the highest selling Jersey in the NFL, only played 3 games, and makes low almost league minimum back up money....lol. The world wants Tebow to start... yes i am a Gator

Denver's cap money is 129 mill. The new CBA calls for 120 mill. Denver has little choise but to trade Orton with his big contract. That from the Denver Post this morning.

Leon In Denver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Denver's cap money is 129 mill. The new CBA calls
> for 120 mill. Denver has little choise but to
> trade Orton with his big contract. That from the
> Denver Post this morning.


thanks for the insight Leon!

Crowder, I'm getting the sense you don't want Orton?

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Crowder, I'm getting the sense you don't want
> Orton?


I do and I dont Berk, I want to see Henne given a real shot, and if Orton is going make ten times what Henne makes, is it really going to be an open competition. I dont like the idea of giving up that much money to a guy that might not play, or stop us from seeing what Hennes got.
Ireland has to do it, in order to cover his a*s, But I would rather spend that capp money on the oline or safety, and sign vince young to cover his butt money not orton.. SO I am a bit unsure of the move. I like the cohesion between Orton and Marshall that Henne didnt seem to have at times... SO, it is a tough call for me, but as I said before that is my opinion from the cheap seats. Ireland knows alot more about the 2 then me, so while i say it is cover your a*s maybe it is signing a franchsie QB, and Young isnt, so I am being foolish... But when DOlfinMark showed me those stats coupled with what I Have seen lately on tape without the pressure of the season and all, Henne surely doesnt look like the problem at all to me... The team let him down alot.. And he made avg mistkaes for a player with his expereience

I would much rather see us throw some money at Zach Miller, and then sign Vince Young and Marion Barber as opposed to trading for an expensive journeyman QB....again.

If we don't get Orton, but sign Young, I'd be OK. We need to get one of the 2 however. Orton has less baggage and would be the best passer we've had here in awhile.

He is one of the best deep ball passers in the league...top 5 I think.

I remember reading in a detailed breakdown that we had the best pass protection of any team so of those percentage stats on Henne and Orton....how relevant are they? If Henne was not pressured that much? Just a thought.

I have no problem getting Orton whatsoever! I personally believe he is on the edge of becoming an elite QB. Just my opinion...and I think he is head and shoulders above Henne.

As Mayock said....Henne is the same guy he was in college....inconsistent and will have flashes of brilliance and then periods of turnovers and bad play. He hasn't changed and may never be anything else....paraphrasing.

If we are truly going downfield this year with a faster Marshall and Hopefully successfull E Gates then who better to get those chunk yards than a top 5 deep thrower? Rivers and Brees are taken.

I think we are going to have a top 5 to 8 o line this year and are going to be a good running team. Pair that with a quick strike passing game and we are a legit contender!

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

profootballfocus.com graded Chad Henne as the 16th best QB in the league last season. They graded Kyle Orton at #22. They would have been neck and neck, but Orton received a much larger negative grade for penalties (8 for Orton versus just 2 for Henne).

When you look at pass protection, it's important to note where pressure came from. Jake Long is a fantastic player. The Dolphins' guards and centers combined to allow 9 sacks, 15 QB knockdowns, and 52 pressures. That is a lot of pressure up the middle. And pressure up the middle is much more difficult on a QB to handle. And considering Miami used 5-step drops on 95% of passing plays, it's an even bigger problem.

It should also be noted that with 5 step drops, you're not going to get a lot of deep ball attempts.

From profootballfocus.com, Dolphins' QBs were pressured 131 times in 2010. Denver QBs were pressured 146 times. Not a huge difference.

3rd down and 3-7 yards to go stats:
Orton- 54 attempts, 26 completions, resulting in 23 first downs, 2 TD, 4 INT, 7 sacks, passer rating of 45.8

Henne- 55 attempts, 39 completions, resulting in 35 first downs, 4 TD, 0 INT, 6 sacks, passer rating of 119.7

Overall 3rd down stats
Orton- 120 attempts, 60 completions, resulting in 39 first downs, 3 TD, 5 INT, 16 sacks, passer rating of 58.0

Henne- 142 attempts, 81 completions, resulting in 60 first downs, 7 TD, 7 INT, 12 sacks, passer rating of 73.0

People complain about Chad Henne checking down? Look at Orton. 60 completions on 3rd and 3-7 yards to go, and only 39 resulted in a 1st down? Those 3rd down stats from Orton are awful. Downright awful. On 1st and 2nd down, he's really good. On 3rd down, he is brutal.

I am all for Orton competing with Henne. But, it is no slam dunk that Orton wins a fair competition. Remember, this is a veteran QB who has been around putting up those awful stats on 3rd down. 3 years into Orton's career, his stats were much worse than Henne's.

Mark, I love you brother, and I love what you do for this board. Your stats are so amazing for most BS posted on here.


BUT...this is one area where a simple eye test is all that is needed.


Chad Henne is in the bottom 5 of starting QB's. Orton was arguably a top 15 last year.

Over the last 2 years, Orton has 41 TD's and 21 INT's.

What is Henne's over the last 2 years?

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

I agree A and O. Here is one instance where the intricate stats lie. Having seen every snap of Henne's and a lot of Orton's last year (I had Orton in fantasy), I can tell you that Orton blew Henne away as a passer last season

LOL...Orton was on my fantasy team as well. So, I as well...followed him heavily.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mark, I love you brother, and I love what you do
> for this board. Your stats are so amazing for most
> BS posted on here.
>
>
> BUT...this is one area where a simple eye test is
> all that is needed.
>
>
> Chad Henne is in the bottom 5 of starting QB's.
> Orton was arguably a top 15 last year.
>
> Over the last 2 years, Orton has 41 TD's and 21
> INT's.
>
> What is Henne's over the last 2 years?


And yet, both pro football focus and the football outsiders rated Henne as better than Orton in 2010.

I may sound anti-Orton, but I'm not. I just think it is a mistake to commit to him as our long term solution at qb. Those third down stats are frightening.

42 TD's and 21 INT's are stats that dont lie either though, Mark.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 42 TD's and 21 INT's are stats that dont lie
> either though, Mark.


I hear you. But, let's see what numbers Henne puts up in his 5th and 6th seasons in the league, with a coach known for being an aggressive offensive coach.

The third down numbers don't lie, either. And it doesn't lie that if Denver trades Orton, that makes two organizations that decided he was not their long term answer, in spite of what look like good stats.

In the red zone:
Orton- 29 for 67, 43.3%, 3.3 yds/att, 13 TD, 0 INT, 2 sacks, passer rating 91.5
Henne- 26 for 46, 56.5%, 4.4 yds/att, 10 TD, 2 INT, 0 sacks, passer rating 89.0

Is that a dramatic difference?
There are holes in Orton's game. And there are positives in Henne's game that he doesn't get credit for. Orton does not win in a slam dunk over Henne.

Where is Henne's Brandon Lloyd? Marshall has averaged 12 yards per catch for his career. In his one year with Orton, Marshall averaged 11.1 yards per catch. He leaves, is replaced by Lloyd, and Lloyd produces over 1400 yards at 18.8 yards per catch. Where is that kind of explosive talent on our offense?

But you can also make a legitimate argument that Orton made Lloyd.

Lloyd has been a terrible player up until getting passes from Kyle Orton.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But you can also make a legitimate argument that
> Orton made Lloyd.
>
> Lloyd has been a terrible player up until getting
> passes from Kyle Orton.


So, why did Marshall only average 11.1 yards per catch from Orton, while Lloyd, playing the same X receiver position, in the same offense, averaged 18.8 yards per catch?

I'm just saying, we haven't had a player like Lloyd to help our QBs. 18.8 yards per catch and over 1400 yards is a phenomenal performance.

Mark,

Now your talking about Marshall vs Lloyd.

I am in the same boat with you when it comes to Marshall. He is not explosive, he is not a game-changer, and he is a diva and headache.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"