I can understand the train of thought of not getting Orton and letting Henne sink or swim, but I just feel that if we make the committment draftpick/money wise to Orton, then he has to be our starter. To me if it's Orton, we've given up on Henne, if it's Matt Moore, it's competition for Henne and if it's Bulger/Hasselbeck, it's a safety net for Henne. I'm actually OK with all 3 scenarios.

I live in the Chicago area and I always thought the knock on Orton was a weak arm, is that false? I keep hearing his long ball is better then Henne's.

so what is the main knock on orton? he has a weak arm (I never really heard that)? He makes dumb decisions (his turnover #s don't reflect that)? He chokes with the game on the line (something that would not necessarily be reflected in the stats)?
If you looked at his stats and covered up the name I think people would be going wild for this guy. However, his rep around the league is that he's average at best. What's the deal? Is it because he had that stupid neck-beard when he was on the Bears? I don't get it.

I think adding Orton would legitimize our QB competition.

It really would allow Henne to sink or swim, because Kyle Orton is gonna come to win the job....Henne better play his A game.

I like the move, if it happens. We need a real QB competition....not


Chad Henne vs. Glass Joe (Chad Pennington)

or

Chad Henne vs. Tyler Twigpen.


Chad Henne vs. Kyle Orton is a real dual. A definate challenge. The better man wins, and our team improves in the end.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

I saw those stats by mark, and I have absolutely no idea how it ends up that Orton blows Henne away statistically. I mean, if you look at Henne's numbers in the breakdown, how did his stats suck so much, and more importantly, why were we so inept on offense? I mean having seen every snap henne took last year, those stats are a complete shock, esp the 3d down numbers.

Not really Berk, I watched 2 games in the last week, the second jets game and Pittsburg. Neither Ben Roth, nor Sanchez outperformed Henne.
We get things going and then some bad runs and bad routes, drops, and Field goals....
In the Pittsburg game against Troy P, Ryan CLark, and Ike Taylor etc, he threw well against them...
The problem was when our oline held the line Henne did well, when they didnt he didnt... Consistency was the problem IMHO. WHich is why I want Henne to have another shot, becasue the inconsistent nature of our players had little to do with Henne IMHO

Orton was in a more pass friendly system. Henne has been in an ultra conservative offense.

Just look at Denver's recievers stats over the last 2 years.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

All teams had to do to beat us, was stop the run. If they could stop the run, which our whole offensive system is based on, most likely we would lose... No matter how well our defense or Henne threw the ball. Henne went 15 for 17 coming (avg pass over ten yards) out of the second half of pittsburg but only got 2 field goals. Surely that should not be on Henne...

I agree the playcalling was horrible. But Henne never showed me the "it" factor that makes me think he'd be a great QB, even in a better system. These past 2 years with Henning have been a total waste, since we've still got legit excuses for Henne, and still don't know for sure whether we're safe in just moving on from him. A real competition between Orton and Henne would be good; I don't want to hand the job to anyone unless they are clearly a great QB, which Orton isn't (he's good, not great)

I think a legit QB comp with this team could be a catastrophy. Hope i'm wrong

Miami herald reporting that Carson Palmer is Miamis first choice and they r trying to get owner to budge on play or retire stance.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

From Twitter;

BenVolinPBP Benjamin Volin
NFL Network reports Kyle Orton doesn't want to be Tebow's backup, and Arizona and Miami are front-runners to land him in a trade

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I saw those stats by mark, and I have absolutely
> no idea how it ends up that Orton blows Henne away
> statistically. I mean, if you look at Henne's
> numbers in the breakdown, how did his stats suck
> so much, and more importantly, why were we so
> inept on offense? I mean having seen every snap
> henne took last year, those stats are a complete
> shock, esp the 3d down numbers.


It's the interceptions, mostly. And a more aggressive offensive system. Everyone will admit that when we got inside the opponents' 30, we turned conservative on offense. It was blatantly obvious. When you look at those stats, the one that should scare people the most is the 3rd down and 3-7 yards to go. Henne was one of the best in the league in that situation, and Orton one of the worst. And we were very good at converting 3rd downs last year.

As for the interceptions, consider this. Football Outsiders ran an article about how Henne had only 1 INT dropped all season. That was the lowest in the league. No other QB had fewer than 4 dropped INT, and the average was 6. Mark Sanchez had 15. So, there's some bad luck in Henne's INT numbers. Just putting him at league average on drops, and he's down to 14 INT. And his stats include the INT on the last play against Pittsburgh that wasn't an INT, so that's down to 13. And off the top of my head, I can think of 4 INTs where the receiver fell down (Bess against Detroit, Hartline on a deep out but I forget against who) or ran the wrong route (Marshall against the Pats, Shuler against the Lions). Suddenly, you are down to 9 INT, with just a little luck change.

As for Orton's weaknesses, he doesn't have a great arm. It's adequate, but not great. He's also not considered that accurate, although he has improved the last couple of years. And he's considered inconsistent. Look at his overall numbers. There is nothing wrong with them. And yet, the Bears decided to trade two first round picks and Orton himself for Cutler. And Denver went out and got Tebow to replace him. Why is that? Obviously, neither team thought that he was as good as his overall stats indicate.

That's my fear here. I like the idea of Orton competing with Henne. I just doubt that it will be a fair competition when Orton makes almost 20 times as much money as Henne. My fear is that Henne at least matches him in the preseason, and they go with Orton anyway because of the financial commitment, and they potentially lose the locker room. Henne has put in a lot of work this offseason, and has probably earned a lot more respect as a leader during that time. And if you bench him for a guy who isn't clearly better, you may divide the locker room. And if they get Orton, they can't not play him. It would look too bad to Ross that they spent his money again, and didn't do the right thing. So, would it really be a competition?

I agree 100 percent Dolfanmark, well said

I also like that Henne did so well in third downs, the year before he was not very good at third down conversions. It was a focus of his and he showed drastic improvement... It shows me that Henne can improve on the weak parts of his game, the guy works hard... Signing orton with that big contract, will always have that hanging over Henne head... Or Miami, could just give up a third to see if orton is better then Henne, if he isnt, cut him before game day 1, no cost but the third rd pick for a little insurance..
What also scares me, is that the coaches and GM are running scared a bit, if Henne flops and they did nothing to provide a good back up plan, they are gone... Ireland is smart doesnt want to lose his job, so the chances he hedges his bets at the expense of Ross's pocket book and Henne's confidence will not be a surprise to me...

crowder, they would never trade a 3d and then cut orton before the season started if he didn't beat out henne. that would be an immediately fireable offense.

mark, great analysis, I am a bit more wary about orton after seeing those numbers. however, I think we need to roll the dice here, even if it costs a 3d rounder. there is no QB a team would be willing to let go who doesn't have some issues. Cutler was a "franchise" guy who was available only b/c McD is an egomaniac moron; Orton is not a "franchise" guy so the trade I don't think reflects too poorly on him. McD then drafted Tebow for the same egotistical reasons (he thought he could turn this guy into a pro where few thought it possible); Tebow is a fan favorite and Orton will not accept being a backup and Den won't pay huge $$ for him to do so---so again, I don't think the fact they want to trade Orton is really a reflection that they think he's not a good QB

Berk- the reason i say that is becasue of cap space, It doesnt make any sense to pay Henne 1.5 million, and Orton anywhere near 8 or 9 million...
With cap space and everything, I could make an argument that trading for Orton and paying him that much of our cap space is a fireable offense as well.... The third is the bargain, everything else is overpriced...
WHich is why I made the suggestion.. It would only be worse with him being a back up at that cost....

We have to bring in a player because we were too wimpy to draft one...The only players worth considering for more than one season are Orton, Young and Kolb.

If we are only looking at a one year deal then you can add Hasselbeck and Bulger to the list.

Young is a headcase in the best of times and how would he act if he was not given the starting job outright?

Kolb's asking price is simply too high for us to make the gamble.

Hasselbeck is too old and is going elsewhere anyway.

Bulger...a stop gap player at best

That leaves us with Orton...if we can get him we have to pay the price. We simply don't have a choice. Going into the season with Henne, Devlin, and Brandstater is not a great thing to do.

If we do land Orton, his contract will certainly be re-done and it will be more than the amount Henne is making (rumor is he's seeking around 6 Mil a year). But, we shouldn't allow that to sway us from letting the best player start in favor of the highest paid one. We shouldn't let that, or our win/loss record sway us away from taking a QB in the 2012 draft either.

I just don't see that we have much of a choice (things were different in April) at this point in time.

there is no way anyone trades for orton without agreeing on a new long term deal with him---so the 8-9mm figure won't be his number when we get him. In fact, the SS reported that we and other teams have been discussing contract terms with orton.

anyone get the feeling that whatever QB move we make will be wrong??

Ken Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We have to bring in a player because we were too
> wimpy to draft one...The only players worth
> considering for more than one season are Orton,
> Young and Kolb.

> If we do land Orton, his contract will certainly
> be re-done and it will be more than the amount
> Henne is making (rumor is he's seeking around 6
> Mil a year). But, we shouldn't allow that to sway
> us from letting the best player start in favor of
> the highest paid one. We shouldn't let that, or
> our win/loss record sway us away from taking a QB
> in the 2012 draft either.
>

If we trade for Orton and pay him 6 million to be a back up and take up that much cap space, fire the entire FO.. Orton isnt the only choice, you obviously should go with Young... Young has a winning record as a starter by alot... That should not be overlooked.
Henne, Young, Devlin is not a bad things. It is the right thing IMO... Smaller cap space, no draft pick, more wins, more dynamic, as a back up, and in Wildcat packages.. And gives you a legitamte starter at a back up with different intanglibles as henne... I like it, like it alot...

JasonLaCanfora Jason La Canfora
People I'm talking to continue to believe Kolb to the Cards could be done within 48hrs. And I hear Orton to MIA a very real possibility too

Lacanfora just tweeted a deal for Orton to Miami could be done in 6hrs.

the local reporters stink. they have nothing, everything coming from the national guys