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          Bring back JJ
Miami Dolphins Civilized Discussion :  Phins.com Phorums The fastest message board... ever.
This is a moderated phorum for the CIVILIZED discussion of the Miami Dolphins. In this phorum, there are rules and moderators to make sure you abide by the rules. The moderators for this phorum are JC and Colonel
Pages: 12Next
Current Page: 1 of 2
Bring back JJ
Posted by: rick1355 ()
Date: May 01, 2011 08:37AM

We should hire Jimmy Johnson back to consult on how to draft in the later rounds to find the real diamonds in the rough ! Remember Jason Taylor, Zach Thomas, Patrick Surtain, Kenny Mixon, Lorenzo Brommel ...... The list goes on and on !

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Re: Bring back JJ
Posted by: Jonathan Twilley ()
Date: May 01, 2011 08:42AM

Surtain was not a late round pick and Mixon and Brommel weren't very good. Be sure that Johnson doesn't pick in the early rounds.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/09/2011 04:51PM by Jonathan Twilley.

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Re: Bring back JJ
Posted by: dolphaholic ()
Date: May 01, 2011 08:46AM

Mixon and Brommel?........really? JJ gets way too much credit around here as being a great talent evaluator for us, he was average or slightly above average at best.

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Re: Bring back JJ
Posted by: dolphaholic ()
Date: May 01, 2011 08:49AM

From Wikipedia

"But Johnson's draft record in Miami was blemished by several high profile draft busts, including fifth-round pick running back Cecil Collins, and two first-round picks, running back John Avery and wide receiver Yatil Green. Collins was a habitual young criminal, and many people criticize Johnson for giving him an undeserved second chance. Collins's football career was soon ended, due to a subsequent prison sentence on a breaking and entering conviction. Yatil Green blew out his knee his first two seasons before the season began and did not record his first reception in the NFL until 1999."

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Re: Bring back JJ
Posted by: ghotirule ()
Date: May 01, 2011 09:14AM


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Re: Bring back JJ
Posted by: Aqua&Orange ()
Date: May 01, 2011 09:28AM

Dont forget, JJ Johnson was a terrible pick too.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

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Re: Bring back JJ
Posted by: ghotirule ()
Date: May 01, 2011 10:30AM


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Re: Bring back JJ
Posted by: dolfanmark ()
Date: May 01, 2011 10:58AM

JJ Johnson, John Avery, Yatil Green, Larry Shannon, LaCurtis Jones, Karim Abdul Jabbar, Dorian Brew, Kirk Pointer, Ronnie Ward, and Jerome Daniels all say "hi."

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Re: Bring back JJ
Posted by: ghotirule ()
Date: May 01, 2011 11:22AM


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Re: Bring back JJ
Posted by: dolfanmark ()
Date: May 01, 2011 11:38AM

The bottom line is that JJ blew a lot of early picks. A lot. Look at the guys he took in the first 4 rounds of the drafts who either never made the team or never contributed. Imagine the outrage today if the team traded down for players at need positions (Dorian Brew and Kirk Pointer at Ccool smiley, and neither even made the team that season. JJ outsmarted himself a lot. He traded down and traded down, but if you go back and look at the moves, he missed on many, many of those acquired picks.

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Re: Bring back JJ
Date: May 01, 2011 12:22PM

rick1355 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We should hire Jimmy Johnson back to consult on
> how to draft in the later rounds to find the real
> diamonds in the rough ! Remember Jason Taylor,
> Zach Thomas, Patrick Surtain, Kenny Mixon, Lorenzo
> Brommel ...... The list goes on and on !


POST OF THE WEEK!!!!!!

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Re: Bring back JJ
Posted by: berkeley223 ()
Date: May 01, 2011 12:50PM

anyone who looks at his whole body of work has to conclude that JJ was nothing great with us. his misses were more than his hits. JJ Johnson was horrible. I remember him fumbling in the 62-7 Jax debacle and standing there telling the ref it wasn't a fumble, while the D player picked it up and scored a TD. He sucked!!
Cecil Collins was a 5th round pick, no big investment.

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Re: Bring back JJ
Posted by: mizzou15 ()
Date: May 01, 2011 02:18PM

JJ stunk, that initial list should at Zach and JT. Mixon and Brommel were average players at best. Passing on Flozzel Adams for John Avery was plain stupid. JJ was great in his own mind when he got here.

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Re: Bring back JJ
Date: May 01, 2011 02:29PM

The Defense that JJ Built lasted us well into the 2000's. Some of the most exciting ball since marino's heydays. If His parents had not passed away we would have had rings. No doubt about it.

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Re: Bring back JJ
Posted by: ChambersDeepBall ()
Date: May 01, 2011 02:53PM

The highlight of JJ's coaching tenure with the phins...............stompin on the flutie flakes. I've blocked out what happened the next week against Denver

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Re: Bring back JJ
Posted by: sconigli ()
Date: May 01, 2011 03:25PM

Cecil Collins was a fifth round pick for crying out loud. Its not like JJ risked the farm taking him.

JJ's worst move was taking John Avery (as in A-very puny running back). He made the pick on the advice of the inept Kippy Brown who was OC that year.

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Re: Bring back JJ
Posted by: berkeley223 ()
Date: May 01, 2011 03:28PM

his worst move was taking back in the first round before the draft even started. talk about thinking you are so much smarter than everyone else. you at least wait and see who is on the board before you make the trade. no doubt, we don't make that trade we take moss that year.

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Re: Bring back JJ
Posted by: sconigli ()
Date: May 01, 2011 03:30PM

JJ was a great draft manager because he cared about value. Avery aside, he did not reach.

If Yatil Green worked out, the Dolphins would have gone a lot further in 1998.

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Re: Bring back JJ
Posted by: sconigli ()
Date: May 01, 2011 03:45PM

Berk, I agree completely. His mindset was such that year that he was going to go shopping according to his new OC's grocery list. Stupid.

I do give JJ credit for finding some nice gems via trade/free agency. Troy Drayton and Mark Dixon were excellent acquisitions.

Alas, the dolphins under JJ fell a piece or two short.

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Re: Bring back JJ
Posted by: dolfanmark ()
Date: May 01, 2011 04:04PM

sconigli Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cecil Collins was a fifth round pick for crying
> out loud. Its not like JJ risked the farm taking
> him.
>
> JJ's worst move was taking John Avery (as in
> A-very puny running back). He made the pick on the
> advice of the inept Kippy Brown who was OC that
> year.


And who was it that chose the inept Kippy Brown to be OC? JJ, who wanted someone at OC who would not question him. He took a HOF QB, and put him in the hands of a guy who had never called plays before. What a joke.

JJ's defense wasn't all it's cracked up to be either. That great defense lost playoff games 38-3 and 62-7. The scheme was too simple. Every play was designed to be funnelled to Zach. If a team could actually block Zach, our defense was screwed. And this flawed scheme was routinely exploited by the better teams.

JJ was good when he had more talent than anyone else, like with the Hurricanes and Cowboys. But, when he was forced to gameplan and strategize to beat a better team, he was nothing.

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Re: Bring back JJ
Posted by: ghotirule ()
Date: May 01, 2011 05:32PM


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Re: Bring back JJ
Posted by: montequi ()
Date: May 01, 2011 06:34PM

You hit it on the head, dolphinmark. JJ was NOT a good game-day coach. He was a hardass in practice, which some players responded to, but some players did NOT. JJ lucked out in Dallas because he had so many draft picks and the inside scoop on Emmitt Smith (having played against him every year he coached in Miami).

JJ might make a decent GM. He'd be a good assistant. I would NOT want him as a HC again.

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Re: Bring back JJ
Date: May 02, 2011 02:26AM

Go ahead and ask Tom Brady who the best defense he ever played against was......early 2000 Dolphins. Surtain and Madison stuck like Glue. Zack Prowled sideline to sideline. JTaylor beat all guards off the snap. Ahhhh good times. We were actually a threat and competive.

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Re: Bring back JJ
Posted by: dolfanmark ()
Date: May 02, 2011 02:34AM

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Go ahead and ask Tom Brady who the best defense he
> ever played against was......early 2000 Dolphins.
> Surtain and Madison stuck like Glue. Zack Prowled
> sideline to sideline. JTaylor beat all guards off
> the snap. Ahhhh good times. We were actually a
> threat and competive.


Tom Brady was at Michigan when JJ was our coach. And, from 2001-2003, Brady was 4-1 as a starter against us. The JJ/Wannstedt defenses were famous for collapsing in important games. They had 4 or 5 very good individual players, but the overall defense was overrated.

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Re: Bring back JJ
Date: May 02, 2011 03:32AM


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Re: Bring back JJ
Posted by: KB ()
Date: May 02, 2011 05:14AM

Jimmy could spot defensive talent I'll give him that. The 'press' did break down @ inopportune times though. More to do with the scheme than talent I think.
Wouldn't give a plug nickel for JJ drafting offense though. He was POOR here at best. In Dallas he got REAL LUCKY with Emmit Smith.

I will say even he knew not to pass on a 1st rd QB when one was available (Aikman).

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Re: Bring back JJ
Posted by: Jonathan Twilley ()
Date: May 09, 2011 04:51PM

dolphaholic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mixon and Brommel?........really? JJ gets way too
> much credit around here as being a great talent
> evaluator for us, he was average or slightly above
> average at best.


In my message it was supposed to say that "Mixon and Brommel weren't very good", but I accidently left it as "were very good". That gives it a completely different context. Whoops! I am going to edit that now.

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Re: Bring back JJ
Posted by: KB ()
Date: May 10, 2011 05:35AM

JJ was good at finding defensive talent I'll give him that. Especially the kind others overlook. Offensively, less so. He got WAY LUCKY with Emmit Smith. No ONE could have imagined what he would become. Of course he also had the LUXURY of drafting a #1 QB (notice he didn't waste his pick on a lineman).

JJ, like Parcells, had a system and when it worked it worked great. But when it didn't he seemed to have no 'plan B' and things quickly crashed and burned. IMO thats what separates great coaches like Shula, Landry, Walsh, Knoll, etc from JJ, Parcells, etc. They could win with different 'kinds' of teams and varied talent.

"Malum consilium quod mutari non potest"

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Re: Bring back JJ
Posted by: Aqua&Orange ()
Date: May 10, 2011 06:42AM

KB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JJ was good at finding defensive talent I'll give
> him that. Especially the kind others overlook.
> Offensively, less so. He got WAY LUCKY with Emmit
> Smith. No ONE could have imagined what he would
> become. Of course he also had the LUXURY of
> drafting a #1 QB (notice he didn't waste his pick
> on a lineman).
>
> JJ, like Parcells, had a system and when it worked
> it worked great. But when it didn't he seemed to
> have no 'plan B' and things quickly crashed and
> burned. IMO thats what separates great coaches
> like Shula, Landry, Walsh, Knoll, etc from JJ,
> Parcells, etc. They could win with different
> 'kinds' of teams and varied talent.
>
> "Malum consilium quod mutari non potest"


&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
partly correct and partly wrong.

JJ could draft amazing lineman. Thats the reason Emmitt succeeded. He had about 6 Hall of Fame lineman blocking in front of him throughout his career including a great TE, Jay Novacek, and a GREAT blocking FB, Moose Johnson.

JJ is a great draft guy. Dont discredit him. Did he have his busts..yes. Overwhelming, yes. But he also draft Hall of Famers. The problem for us, is that he just didnt do it in Miami.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

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Re: Bring back JJ
Posted by: Aqua&Orange ()
Date: May 10, 2011 06:42AM

Or as well in Miami, should I say.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

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