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          Writing is on the wall.........
Miami Dolphins Civilized Discussion :  Phins.com Phorums The fastest message board... ever.
This is a moderated phorum for the CIVILIZED discussion of the Miami Dolphins. In this phorum, there are rules and moderators to make sure you abide by the rules. The moderators for this phorum are JC and Colonel
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Re: Writing is on the wall.........
Posted by: berkeley223 ()
Date: May 07, 2011 12:42PM

so you were serious? the 1983 draft had Elway, probably the highest rated, sure thing QB to come out to that point. The last QB taken in the first was Marino, nothing needs to be said about him. Between the 2 were Jim Kelly, Tony Eason, Ken OBrien, and Todd Blackledge. Kelly is in the HOF, OBrien had some great seasons, Eason took his team to a SB, and Blackledge was a bust. All these guys were expected to be great pros.

This year, the #1 overall pick played 1 season in major college and is considered to be years away from being a legit starter, if ever. The second QB picked completed 50% of his passes as a senior, the 3d (Gabbert) is not considered a sure thing at all and needs time to learn a pro offense, and Ponder was considered a 2d or 3d rounder at best before Minn got desperate and reached for him.

How can you compare the 2? And I've ever read anything comparing this years class to 1983. If you have, I'd like to see it because it is a truly rediculous comparison to make.

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Re: Writing is on the wall.........
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: May 07, 2011 01:47PM


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Re: Writing is on the wall.........
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: May 07, 2011 01:53PM

No, A & O, I'm cool. I'm just responding to these guys posts who are attacking Treasure and BNF and other folks who are still pee o-ed about the draft.

And I'm pointing out how PhinFans2 argued to draft a QB and now is satisfied.

But if I understand him, he is saying that if a QB is drafted BEFORE 15, he is worth taking but if he falls AFTER 15, he is no longer worth taking because a QBs position that he is taken ACTUALLY COORDINATES with how he will perform in the future in the NFL confused smiley .....except Tom Brady...and a few others mentioned after PF2 explained Brady away.

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Re: Writing is on the wall.........
Posted by: Phinsfan2 ()
Date: May 07, 2011 04:46PM


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Re: Writing is on the wall.........
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: May 07, 2011 04:52PM

Okay, just explain it to me one more time, PhinFans2. In response to my draft post I gave you two options for what you might be saying

a) He's not worth it because every team passed on him or

b) He's not worth it because we didn't think so otherwise we would have drafted him earlier.

I thought your response post picked B.

Give a poor guy a break, if there is a C tell me what it is.

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Re: Writing is on the wall.........
Posted by: berkeley223 ()
Date: May 07, 2011 05:43PM

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> berk wrote:
>
> How can you compare the 2? And I've ever read
> anything comparing this years class to 1983. If
> you have, I'd like to see it because it is a truly
> rediculous comparison to make.
>
> RESPONSE: You can't compare the two because it is
> now the year 2011, 28 years AFTER the 1983 draft
> when we have been able to evaluate what the 1983
> draft did for 28 years and the 2011 QB DRAFT CLASS
> HAS YET TO PLAY ONE SINGLE DOWN.
>
> Like all draft picks for the individual teams, HOW
> THEY ACTUALLY PERFORM IS SOMETHING THAT WILL HAVE
> TO BE SEEN IN THE FUTURE.
>
>


you wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> This is the
> > BEST QB draft since 1983 with Elway, Marino,
> etc.

YOU are comparing the 2. I am wondering what you are basing this on. It can't be on projections coming out of school. And I watch the nfl network, listen to sirius, read all the same stuff as you I am sure, and I have never heard anyone remotely say that this QB class is quite mediocre. Never heard anyone say this is comparable to the 1983 class. I have heard comparisons to the 1999 class (biggest group of busts ever).

Chyren, I like you and I appreciate your tenacious and argumentative nature but come on, saying "this is the best QB draft since 1983 with Elway, Marino, etc" is fairly indefensible and absurd on its face.

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Re: Writing is on the wall.........
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: May 07, 2011 05:55PM

It's just my prediction. I've heard it said. Hey, we'll see. But no one has ANY MORE PROOF that it is a bust than I have that it is a great class because that will not be known until they start playing.

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Re: Writing is on the wall.........
Posted by: berkeley223 ()
Date: May 07, 2011 06:04PM

ok fair enough

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Re: Writing is on the wall.........
Date: May 08, 2011 06:07AM

Certainly ALOT of QB prospects taken early in the draft. More then in any recent draft. That bodes well for Chyrenes prediction. Christian Ponder will fail miserably. The others all have great qualities if they landed in the right situations.

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Re: Writing is on the wall.........
Posted by: Phinsfan2 ()
Date: May 08, 2011 01:06PM


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Re: Writing is on the wall.........
Posted by: dolphaholic ()
Date: May 08, 2011 03:53PM

God Phinsfan, quit being so vague with your answers would ya! (He's gonna tell you he knows what you really think and to start being honest with yourself)

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Re: Writing is on the wall.........
Posted by: Phinsfan2 ()
Date: May 08, 2011 03:56PM


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Re: Writing is on the wall.........
Posted by: Aqua&Orange ()
Date: May 08, 2011 04:47PM

dolphaholic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> God Phinsfan, quit being so vague with your
> answers would ya! (He's gonna tell you he knows
> what you really think and to start being honest
> with yourself)


&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
Dude, I was seriously drinking water when I read this, and I almost spit it all over my laptop! smiling bouncing smiley

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

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Re: Writing is on the wall.........
Posted by: dolfanmark ()
Date: May 08, 2011 05:02PM

Phinsfan2 Wrote:
more shot.
>
> My philosophy on QB's in General:
>
> - This is a QB league.
>
> - Rules changes and free agency have made it an
> ironclad necessity (in my mind) to have a legit
> franchise QB in order to contended for division
> titles and championships every year, not just when
> you find a caretaker QB who has a career year.
>
> - My philosophy is to get a QB first and build
> around him since it takes time for them to develop
> (a year or two).
>

There's also a school of thought that if you put a young QB out there without the supporting cast around him, you run the risk of getting him beat up and ruining his confidence/development forever. Tim Couch and David Carr would be the poster boys for this.

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Re: Writing is on the wall.........
Posted by: Aqua&Orange ()
Date: May 08, 2011 05:10PM

That is exactly my point, we have the talent. We know need the QB. If Henne proves to be a loser this year, do what ever we can to get Luck or Barkley next year.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

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Re: Writing is on the wall.........
Posted by: Phinsfan2 ()
Date: May 08, 2011 05:21PM


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Re: Writing is on the wall.........
Posted by: dolphin ()
Date: May 09, 2011 05:54AM

Dang, that was beautiful!

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Re: Writing is on the wall.........
Posted by: Phinsfan2 ()
Date: May 09, 2011 06:19AM


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Re: Writing is on the wall.........
Posted by: dolphin ()
Date: May 09, 2011 06:36AM

How many from Marino's class were actually really good?

I can think of 2 of them.

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Re: Writing is on the wall.........
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: May 09, 2011 06:43AM


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Re: Writing is on the wall.........
Posted by: Phinsfan2 ()
Date: May 09, 2011 06:49AM


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Re: Writing is on the wall.........
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: May 09, 2011 06:55AM

Phinfans, we are talking championships, not runners up prizes, as good as that draft class was, only 1 of the 1983 QB draft class is a superbowl winner.... That should tell you something.....

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Re: Writing is on the wall.........
Posted by: Phinsfan2 ()
Date: May 09, 2011 07:10AM


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Re: Writing is on the wall.........
Date: May 09, 2011 07:14AM

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Phinfans, we are talking championships, not
> runners up prizes, as good as that draft class
> was, only 1 of the 1983 QB draft class is a
> superbowl winner.... That should tell you
> something.....

THIS^^^^
And even Elway owes everything to a runningback that burned bright and then burned out.

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Re: Writing is on the wall.........
Posted by: berkeley223 ()
Date: May 09, 2011 07:18AM

OK if that's the criteria then Dilfer > Marino. Anyone here actually agree with that?

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Re: Writing is on the wall.........
Date: May 09, 2011 07:23AM


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Re: Writing is on the wall.........
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: May 09, 2011 08:12AM

That is not the point I was making Phinfans or Berk,
It means that even the best Qb's in the game or HOFer's can not get it done by themselves. You have to build a team and then put the QB in place. Thinking the best QB in the NFL can do it without, a great center, or LT, or secondary, or Dline, or rb's or wr's is just, not being realistic. A QB is important, but so is the team, as you all suggest DIlfer has a ring and Marino doesnt. What does that tell you?
You have to put together as many pieces of the puzzle as you can in as short of times span as you can in order to create, a group of guys that play well on all sides of the ball, altogether.

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Re: Writing is on the wall.........
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: May 09, 2011 08:14AM

WHich is why Ireland had a good draft. He made the team better as drafting god players in positions of need. You need to do that as well as find a good QB. But it is possible, if the team is so good outside the QB postions and the QB doesnt lose the game. FOr his team and him to win a championship.

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Re: Writing is on the wall.........
Posted by: dolphaholic ()
Date: May 09, 2011 08:24AM

I agree Crowder, when I say we had a good draft, its not because I know a ton about the players we took, its because we filled positions of HUGE needs with what appear to be good players, now if they pan out is another story.

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Re: Writing is on the wall.........
Date: May 09, 2011 08:40AM

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK if that's the criteria then Dilfer > Marino.
> Anyone here actually agree with that?


Just to expand on that .......Henne is no Dilfer either. winking smileygrinning smiley

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