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          I've been trying to get a point across
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I've been trying to get a point across
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: April 24, 2011 01:55PM

Poll
Which would you choose in his prime?
This poll has expired. Voting is no longer possible.
19 votes were received.
Brandon Marshall 10
 
53%
Wes Welker 9
 
47%



about Brandon Marshall and I think this poll will demonstrate it.

Assume that each one of these two guys were embarking on their pro-careers and they would perform as they actually have yet you can choose which one will be playing for you. The difference, of course, is that you are going to be confronted with many different sometimes trying, sometimes desperate situations in the future.

Which would you choose?

I'd choose Welker. I know he is a slot receiver but I'm not talking about position, I'm talking about drive and heart.

I'm talking about reliability. Knowing what I know today, I would not be such a fool as to touch Marshall.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: I've been trying to get a point across
Posted by: montequi ()
Date: April 24, 2011 02:09PM

This poll doesn't really make any sense. As you point out, Marshall is a starting possession receiver. Welker is a slot guy who only gets on the field when you play a 3 WR set. They don't run the same routes. They, basically, don't do the same thing. Marshall will block downfield for RBs or other receivers. Welker's main responsibility is to catch the ball. He rarely breaks it for a long TD (he'll usually just dive ahead for a 1st down instead).

Fact is, I think Marshall can be successful, at least statistically, in almost any offense...even with a bad supporting cast. As a slot guy Welker relies on the other WRs to draw coverage away from him. He's usually on a LB or 2nd-string Safety or CB. Throw him on a bad team and he won't do very much.

Don't get me wrong. If you're looking for a competitor and a good locker-room guy, I'll take Welker anyday. But, comparing his receiving skills is moot. If that's the decision..I take Marshall.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/2011 02:11PM by montequi.

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Re: I've been trying to get a point across
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: April 24, 2011 02:29PM

montequi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This poll doesn't really make any sense. As you
> point out, Marshall is a starting possession
> receiver. Welker is a slot guy who only gets on
> the field when you play a 3 WR set. They don't
> run the same routes. They, basically, don't do
> the same thing. Marshall will block downfield for
> RBs or other receivers. Welker's main
> responsibility is to catch the ball. He rarely
> breaks it for a long TD (he'll usually just dive
> ahead for a 1st down instead).
>
> Fact is, I think Marshall can be successful, at
> least statistically, in almost any offense...even
> with a bad supporting cast. As a slot guy Welker
> relies on the other WRs to draw coverage away from
> him. He's usually on a LB or 2nd-string Safety or
> CB. Throw him on a bad team and he won't do very
> much.

RESPONSE: All the above misses the point.


>
> Don't get me wrong. If you're looking for a
> competitor and a good locker-room guy, I'll take
> Welker anyday. But, comparing his receiving
> skills is moot. If that's the decision..I take
> Marshall.

RESPONSE: This is precisely the point.

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Re: I've been trying to get a point across
Posted by: montequi ()
Date: April 24, 2011 02:34PM

So, you'd rather have a good lockerroom guy with average to above average talent than a guy with super talent? You'll never make it to the big dance like that.

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Re: I've been trying to get a point across
Posted by: Jonathan Twilley ()
Date: April 24, 2011 02:35PM

At this point, I would rather just have the two 2nd round picks back.

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Re: I've been trying to get a point across
Posted by: montequi ()
Date: April 24, 2011 02:41PM

I want to see what Marshall can do with a new OC and, possibly, QB, before throwing him away. With his hands and size, he has a TON of potential. He's also a former pro-bowler and is still young.

I say we do all we can to utilize him this coming season. If he doesn't fit the team we should be able to get as much as or more for him next year as we can right now.

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Re: I've been trying to get a point across
Posted by: jlyell13 ()
Date: April 24, 2011 02:45PM

You have to take his off field issues & baggage into account.

See Plaxico Burress & Randy Moss, has he seen his best years?

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Re: I've been trying to get a point across
Posted by: montequi ()
Date: April 24, 2011 03:25PM

jlyell13 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You have to take his off field issues & baggage
> into account.
>
> See Plaxico Burress & Randy Moss, has he seen his
> best years?

I don't believe for a minute he's going to go out and shoot someone. As for Moss....Randy is 100x more of an a**hole than Marshall.

Oh, and, barring injury, Marshall has plenty of good years left.

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Re: I've been trying to get a point across
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: April 24, 2011 03:47PM

montequi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So, you'd rather have a good lockerroom guy with
> average to above average talent than a guy with
> super talent? You'll never make it to the big
> dance like that.


RESPONSE: You'll never make it to the big dance if he gets suspended either.

And even if you make it to the big dance, you'll lose if he bounces the football off a referee's head in overtime because he is upset with the spot of the ball.

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Re: I've been trying to get a point across
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: April 24, 2011 03:49PM

montequi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I don't believe for a minute he's going to go out
> and shoot someone. As for Moss....Randy is 100x
> more of an a**hole than Marshall.

RESPONSE: Are you freaking serious? Give me a link to all of Randy's OFF-FIELD behaviors.

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Re: I've been trying to get a point across
Posted by: montequi ()
Date: April 24, 2011 03:59PM


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Re: I've been trying to get a point across
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: April 24, 2011 04:17PM

Oh, I remember that! Randy Moss openingly criticized a meal being prepared by some hard working independent small business who the team had given a break to by allowing them to cater the meals.

Was he thereby a class one a-hole? Hell yeah.

Can you equate it with constantly battering women and battering his own father?

Sheeshhh!

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Re: I've been trying to get a point across
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: April 24, 2011 04:19PM

Boy, your side's not doing as great as I would have expected in the poll, Monte.

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Re: I've been trying to get a point across
Date: April 24, 2011 04:41PM

A Big part of Wes Welkers success was Tom Brady. The Pats had an accurate Slot passer.

Brandon marshall is a completely different animal and is a self made superstar because of his ability to get yards AFTER the catch.

2 completely different animals. I get what you are saying. Brandon is not a high character person. He's a Thug with money.

I think he might have bottomed out though. This past incident might have really woke his ass up. maybe not. I don't know , I never spoke with him in my life. But We have enought high calibur people on this Team that need to do a intervention. All I'm saying is that I think he's WORTH it. Thats all.

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Re: I've been trying to get a point across
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: April 24, 2011 04:46PM

Fair enough, but I'd bet against it.

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Re: I've been trying to get a point across
Posted by: Aqua&Orange ()
Date: April 24, 2011 04:56PM

Wes Welker for the patsies, is the same Wes Welker that played for the Dolphins. Just an average WR, who is an over-achiever....who just now happens to have one of the top 10 QB's in NFL history throwing him passes.



Welker is a chump. A oompa loompa chump at that.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

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Re: I've been trying to get a point across
Posted by: dolfanmark ()
Date: April 24, 2011 05:05PM

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A Big part of Wes Welkers success was Tom Brady.
> The Pats had an accurate Slot passer.
>
> Brandon marshall is a completely different animal
> and is a self made superstar because of his
> ability to get yards AFTER the catch.
>

Welker has been much better at YAC than Marshall, averaging 5.7 for his career, while Marshall is at 4.5. Marshall had the worst YAC on the team last year, at just 2.5. People like to blame this on Henne, but Bess, Hartline, and Fasano all did much better with YAC than Marshall. The real issue was Marshall's inability to get separation (which is something that even Marshall himself concedes).

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Re: I've been trying to get a point across
Date: April 24, 2011 05:05PM

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fair enough, but I'd bet against it.


Oh I certainly would NOT take that bet either! But his abilities and what he offers us makes it worth at least TRYING to help him IF he was a Victim here. He is an elite reciever. he can help us tremendously. When you have a roster full of athletes from all walks of life , not everyone is going to be like the Ted Ginn Family. Some of these guys have really had it shitty. But some are worth saving is the only point I'm making.


BTW, I want to also say , I much more enjoy speaking with you on this level then we have in past. looking forward to more spirted conversations in the future!

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Re: I've been trying to get a point across
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: April 24, 2011 05:16PM

Same here.

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Re: I've been trying to get a point across
Posted by: ghotirule ()
Date: April 24, 2011 05:34PM


Options: ReplyQuote
Re: I've been trying to get a point across
Date: April 24, 2011 06:09PM

dolfanmark Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > A Big part of Wes Welkers success was Tom
> Brady.
> > The Pats had an accurate Slot passer.
> >
> > Brandon marshall is a completely different
> animal
> > and is a self made superstar because of his
> > ability to get yards AFTER the catch.
> >
>
> Welker has been much better at YAC than Marshall,
> averaging 5.7 for his career, while Marshall is at
> 4.5. Marshall had the worst YAC on the team last
> year, at just 2.5. People like to blame this on
> Henne, but Bess, Hartline, and Fasano all did much
> better with YAC than Marshall. The real issue was
> Marshall's inability to get separation (which is
> something that even Marshall himself concedes).


But like I said, Marshall is a self made superstar. It sure helps when you have Tom Brady throwing passes in places that enable you catch them on the run. With a decent running game, Oline, and a deep threat running opposite him and capable passer to keep him from going over the middle and having to reach for everything, he would be tremendous.

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Re: I've been trying to get a point across
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: April 24, 2011 06:16PM

I'm not trying to re-argue the Welker trade, Ghotirule. I'm making a different point.

I'm talking about whether it is better to have a hard working Gumby than an a-hole talent laden star.

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Re: I've been trying to get a point across
Date: April 24, 2011 07:32PM

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm not trying to re-argue the Welker trade,
> Ghotirule. I'm making a different point.
>
> I'm talking about whether it is better to have a
> hard working Gumby than an a-hole talent laden
> star.




I think we have Both in Bess and Marshall. I guess the Dolphins will have to figure out if they can reel Marshall in. The Pats did it for a number of years with Moss. Aholes didn't come anybigger. But he was worth the effort. Once he wasn't worth the effort anymore he was shitcanned for some nice draft picks.

We got alot invested in Marshall. Invest some time , Maybe he can help get us that elusive championship , then when its time , get some more value out of him from a desperate team like belichick did. Just cutting Brandon is gonna co$t us. We Need him and don't have the draft power to replace him.

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Re: I've been trying to get a point across
Posted by: dolfanmark ()
Date: April 25, 2011 02:06AM

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But like I said, Marshall is a self made
> superstar. It sure helps when you have Tom Brady
> throwing passes in places that enable you catch
> them on the run. With a decent running game,
> Oline, and a deep threat running opposite him and
> capable passer to keep him from going over the
> middle and having to reach for everything, he
> would be tremendous.


And Welker is not self-made? Bess, Hartline, and Fasano managed to do just fine with YAC catching passes from Henne.

Here's the thing, people keep expecting Marshall to be better than he is. In Denver, Marshall averaged 6.5 catches per game, at 12 yards per catch. That's what he did for us last season, too. What we got from him last season is exactly the kind of player he was in Denver. If you expect anything more from him, then you are expecting him to reach new heights in performance. He is what he is. And statistically, he performed exactly the same with Henne at QB as he did with Cutler and Orton.

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Re: I've been trying to get a point across
Date: April 25, 2011 05:04AM

Welker is a great player. Did really well here in Miami.But he reached the next level because of the offense he was involved with in New England. Bess is just as good as Wes. I really believe that. Wes might have a slight advantage on special teams but he doesn't play it anymore anyways.

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Re: I've been trying to get a point across
Posted by: Mia1 ()
Date: April 25, 2011 05:54AM

Welker was faster than Bess.

Welker has better hands than Bess.

Welker is cooler than Bess.

Welker makes the NE offense. Go look at the stats with him in, and with him not in.

I would have Welker all day over Marshall.

Welker is a grinder and I miss his talents ALOT.

If he was Marshall's size he would be the most dominate WR in the game.

The only reason why he isnt mentioned as a elite wr is because of his size.

To think NE made him what he is!! Seriously lol what a lame joke, he has only improved every year there, and tears it up on a daily basis.

Painfull watching him tear it up playing for that team, but we traded him for peanuts so oh well.

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Re: I've been trying to get a point across
Posted by: Aqua&Orange ()
Date: April 25, 2011 06:35AM


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Re: I've been trying to get a point across
Posted by: dolfanmark ()
Date: April 25, 2011 06:50AM

I love Davone Bess. But, he's not as good as Welker. Welker has an extra burst of quickness and speed that Bess does not. Bess (4.7) is very slow. Welker is no speed demon, but he is faster than that. And when Welker catches a ball, there is that brief moment of panic that he is going to break a tackle, or make a guy miss, and turn it into a really big play. Bess doesn't have that same suddenness.

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Re: I've been trying to get a point across
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: April 25, 2011 01:28PM

Mia1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Welker was faster than Bess.


Wrong!


>
> Welker has better hands than Bess.


Wrong!.
>
> Welker is cooler than Bess.


Who cares..
>
> Welker makes the NE offense. Go look at the stats
> with him in, and with him not in.

Wrong. Tom Brady makes the NE offense.



>
> I would have Welker all day over Marshall.

Might agree somehow because marshall is definetely a head case.


>
> Welker is a grinder and I miss his talents ALOT.


Who cares about welker. We have bess and do not miss a beat with bess.


>
> If he was Marshall's size he would be the most
> dominate WR in the game.

IF. But he is not. Point moot.



>
> The only reason why he isnt mentioned as a elite
> wr is because of his size.

If only charlie huff had a 99 MPH fastball.


>
> To think NE made him what he is!! Seriously lol
> what a lame joke, he has only improved every year
> there, and tears it up on a daily basis.
>

He is what he is because of all the talent on the ne offense. Not denying he is a good player because he is a good player. But he was wid e open all the time because they had 6 guys on randy moss...All he did was play catch with tom brady.

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Re: I've been trying to get a point across
Posted by: Mia1 ()
Date: April 25, 2011 03:39PM


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