and how did the wfl work out? this thing is getting settled, with few if any games lost

Anyone that thinks the NFL doesnt pay its players are beyond even the word dillusional. The players know they are being over paid, if not why would they have already supposedly offered to give the owners back ten of the 60 percent they get. Come on now, we know you are a union prostitute from your rants... but no one is going to believe the owners dont pay the players enough...hahahahahahah. That is like saying the public unions are not scams against the tax payers... lol

Wow. This is a switch. I agree with Ghotirule who I seldom agree with and disagree with Crowder who I never disagree with.

One thing you keep forgetting (or ignoring) is the players didn't ask for this, all they want is to play under the current agreement that both sides agreed to. The owners are the ones that caused this current situation. And please don't blur the lines of this mess and what's going on in Wisconsin, Indiana and Ohio.

The pkayers have asked the owners to open the books, and the owners won't. Why? Maybe because the owners don't want anyone to see just how much money they are making?

When DT Shawn Lee died last week, he became the 5th member of the 1991-92 Dolphins to pass away. That's 10% of the roster. Guys in their 40's. The players deserve to make as much money as they can.

dolfanmark Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The pkayers have asked the owners to open the
> books, and the owners won't. Why? Maybe because
> the owners don't want anyone to see just how much
> money they are making?
>
> When DT Shawn Lee died last week, he became the
> 5th member of the 1991-92 Dolphins to pass away.
> That's 10% of the roster. Guys in their 40's. The
> players deserve to make as much money as they can.


The 1991-92 dolphins or chargers? I think you mean chargers. I know the phins have lost some guys lately ---lee, roby, jarvis williams, harry galbreith---but I don't think those guys were all teammates. I could be wrong however

dolphaholic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One thing you keep forgetting (or ignoring) is the
> players didn't ask for this, all they want is to
> play under the current agreement that both sides
> agreed to. The owners are the ones that caused
> this current situation. And please don't blur the
> lines of this mess and what's going on in
> Wisconsin, Indiana and Ohio.

Not so. Both the players and owners asked for it by putting an expiration date on the current CBA. When a contract expires and new one is negotiated.

dolfanmark Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The pkayers have asked the owners to open the
> books, and the owners won't. Why? Maybe because
> the owners don't want anyone to see just how much
> money they are making?
>
> When DT Shawn Lee died last week, he became the
> 5th member of the 1991-92 Dolphins to pass away.
> That's 10% of the roster. Guys in their 40's. The
> players deserve to make as much money as they can.

Oh come on. Are we going to feel sorry for people making this kind of money? No one is forcing these players to play this sport. They play for the MONEY and they get paid very well. Don't even start with how much they deserve. It is their choice to play a high risk game for big money.
It is the owners choice to take the business risk to make big money. So feeling sorry for either side is ludicrous.

"Not so Leon, the owners "opted out" of a contract that was supposed to go until 2013 I think. I guess you could say the players were wrong to agree to the opt-out clause, but to me that's a weak argument."

If the players agreed to an opt-out clause then that is their problem. You can't blame the owners for trying to negotiate a better deal for themselves. No different than the players negotiating a better deal for themselves. That is what a CBA is all about.

Taking sides is nuts as we are just fans that want football. We really know very little about either side. Only what we read or hear which is little

Again, both sides have brought it to this point.

this was invevitable whether the agreement ended due to an opt-out or a year later due to regular expiration.
remember a few years ago when they hammered out this deal at the last minute. I think both sides wanted to get this done---esp Taglibue since it was has last official act before leaving and he did not want to go down as having a strike as his last act. The owners didn't like the deal bur wanted it done, and gave themselves an "out" in a few years.

Compare NFL players to NBA and MLB players, and also factor in that the NFL is by far the most popular sport in America and then ask yourself if they are compensated fairly.

Remember, compare apples to apples.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Nope. Not a fair comparison at all.

How long of a career do baseball players have? How long do basketball players have? Are their contracts gauranteed?

Most players in other sports are millionaires. Most in the NFL are not.

NFL players are susceptible(?) to career/life threatening injuries everytime they play....other sports are no where near that.

Again, factor in many things...injury risks, revenue, career longevity, overall pay of *ALL* players.

NFL players are not compensated fairly....again, compared to the other sports.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nope. Not a fair comparison at all.
>
> How long of a career do baseball players have? How
> long do basketball players have? Are their
> contracts gauranteed?
>
> Most players in other sports are millionaires.
> Most in the NFL are not.
>
> NFL players are susceptible(?) to career/life
> threatening injuries everytime they play....other
> sports are no where near that.
>
> Again, factor in many things...injury risks,
> revenue, career longevity, overall pay of *ALL*
> players.
>
> NFL players are not compensated fairly....again,
> compared to the other sports.

I'd, actually, argue MLB and the NBA over-pay their players. I think you could keep salaries down if you improved the pension plan. If players know they're set for life, why would it matter if they made HALF the salary they make now.

One thing that has GOT to go is the minimum wage in the NFL. Why does an over-the-hill 3rd stringer make more than a young starter?

does anyone really think NFL players are underpaid? what would these guys be doing if they weren't playing football? it's a business decison each makes. obviously they think it is more profitable for them to play in the league making at least (usually much much more than) 300k a year (9 months work maybe), as well as all of the status and hoochies that come with the gig. Or they could sell insurance or coach HS football or go into personal training or whatever their free college education has enable them to do. If they are making less than NBA and MLB players, that shows those guys are overpaid. Now maybe the pie could be split up differently, so that rookies are not making more than vets, but that's just a detail.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> does anyone really think NFL players are
> underpaid? what would these guys be doing if they
> weren't playing football? it's a business decison
> each makes. obviously they think it is more
> profitable for them to play in the league making
> at least (usually much much more than) 300k a year
> (9 months work maybe), as well as all of the
> status and hoochies that come with the gig. Or
> they could sell insurance or coach HS football or
> go into personal training or whatever their free
> college education has enable them to do. If they
> are making less than NBA and MLB players, that
> shows those guys are overpaid. Now maybe the pie
> could be split up differently, so that rookies are
> not making more than vets, but that's just a
> detail.


You could make the argument that Korey Stringers family thinks they're under-paid.

Phinsfan I could not agree with you more. What I don't get about any pro sport is people thinking they have to be set for life by playing only a short time.

Football players are willing to take the risk in a high risk sport. They are compensated very well for it. I have zero sympathy for any of them no matter how much they get paid. Now no one wants to see a player severely injured but that is the risk they are willing to take. It's business, it's making money.

This and all pro sports is nothing more than entertainment that fans are willing to pay for. No different than any other form of entertainment. Are we willing to go to a movie? Watch a play? Go to a concert? What do those entertainers make?
No Different. No sympathy for players, owners, actors, singers, directors, play writers, producers, CEOs or workers. It's all relative to the amount of money generated that is available for compensation.

You guys (other than Dolphaholic) are crazy. The NFL is by far the most popular sport, 90% of the players make league minimums and their contracts are not gauranteed like the other sports...oh and by the way, they are taking a chance at ending their lives every time they step on the field.

Phinsfan, how many of those other sport retirees are committing suicide like NFL retirees are? How many are having traumatic injuries that alter the rest of their life like NFL players are?

Come on dude, you can "google" all the crap you want to, but at some point you need to use common sense.....and not google.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Now, comparing them to my salary is ridiculous. Of course they make waaaaay more money than I do or any one on this baord (I assume).

But compare them to other professional sports, not us.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Are NFL players fairly compensated? Absolutely!!!

Are there risks associated with their jobs? Absolutely.

Are there more dangerous jobs out there which pay far, far less than the NFL? Absolutely, and it's a long list. And I can't think of one of these jobs that comes with the fame and opportunity for endorsements, etc that come from being a NFL player.

Will some NFL players have to work after playing football? I hope so.

Will they have better work opportunities after football than the Average Joe? Absolutely.

It is sickening to hear guys who make millions annually cry about fair treatment. And to add to PF2's comments, it's not the guys at the bottom of rosters that are driving this bus. Chosen as lead plaintiffs for the players were Brady, Manning, Brees. It has always been the highest paid NFL players that benefit most from any advantages negotiated in a new CBA.

As an aside, a large percentage of working people are compensated based on performance. How many of these people can go to the owner/s of their company and demand to get paid based on the profitability of the company? In my line of work, people expect to get paid based on performance, not how the company does as a whole. If I perform well, I get paid well. A strong company just means that it's less likely that I have to look for work next year.

The NFL is a unique beast. Yes, the owners are making a ton of money; but isn't that how it works. Would the NFL even exist if owners were losing money?

Players also need to think about the hundreds of additional staff people that require fair wages and have families to feed. Teams need office staff, marketing staff, accounting, ticket sales, etc. There is also a front office and about 20 coaches per team. This may be a stupid question, but do the players factor in the wages required for all of these people when they are demanding a bigger piece of the pie?

Excellent post Northeast fin fan, excellent post. I guess someone else on this board understands business.