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          Cutler incident typical of present day America
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Cutler incident typical of present day America
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: January 27, 2011 07:06PM

Poor Cutler. Had he continued playing and the game had been lost as it was, in today's America, he would have been second-guessed for being selfish and not taking himself out of the game. I can hear it now, "He put his own interests ahead of that of the team."

Today's America is all about bit_hing and moaning. The media has nothing better to do, so they latch on to a story. And there is always an idiot who first bellyaches and other Monday morning quarterbacks (pun intended or not as you please) start bellyaching.

The present face of America is that woman talking (or texting) on the phone while walking through the mall and trips and falls into a fountain and is now determined to sue the mall.

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Re: Cutler incident typical of present day America
Posted by: Phinsfan2 ()
Date: January 27, 2011 08:06PM


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Re: Cutler incident typical of present day America
Posted by: razorghost ()
Date: January 27, 2011 08:41PM

Even Aaron Rodgers came out and called the criticism of Cutler disrespectful, and I agree it was!

And off topic please tell me that lady is not suing the mall.

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Re: Cutler incident typical of present day America
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: January 27, 2011 08:42PM

Ain't it the truth. But it seems moreso now than ever, although it was always true to a certain extent.

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Re: Cutler incident typical of present day America
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: January 27, 2011 08:49PM

Well, she's suing the mall but I don't know what the basis is.

The video was not from a customer cell-phone but was from a mall security camera.

It is unclear how that footage went public.

She did make some comments about how if the fountaine were not filled with water she would have been more seriously injured than she was.

But the truth is I don't know the basis of the suit. By that I mean that if she is suing the mall because of her fall, she is crazy. She might have some kind of suit for invasion of privacy because of the release of the video, obviously her act was public and was viewed first hand by anyone around but I would imagine the suit might say that the security video is there for security purposes and not for someone to release on You-tube or whatever for enjoyment purposes.

She said she found out about it because her friends were calling her and asking did she know she was on You-Tube.

I'm not sure that she has any valid compensable claim on the invasion of privacy basis but she certainly cannot claim that the Mall was negligent in putting a fountain in a mall and thereby making it unsafe for cell phone users who are not watching where they are walking.

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Re: Cutler incident typical of present day America
Posted by: razorghost ()
Date: January 27, 2011 08:54PM

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, she's suing the mall but I don't know what
> the basis is.
>
> The video was not from a customer cell-phone but
> was from a mall security camera.
>
> It is unclear how that footage went public.
>
> She did make some comments about how if the
> fountaine were not filled with water she would
> have been more seriously injured than she was.
>
> But the truth is I don't know the basis of the
> suit. By that I mean that if she is suing the
> mall because of her fall, she is crazy. She might
> have some kind of suit for invasion of privacy
> because of the release of the video, obviously her
> act was public and was viewed first hand by anyone
> around but I would imagine the suit might say that
> the security video is there for security purposes
> and not for someone to release on You-tube or
> whatever for enjoyment purposes.
>
> She said she found out about it because her
> friends were calling her and asking did she know
> she was on You-Tube.
>
> I'm not sure that she has any valid compensable
> claim on the invasion of privacy basis but she
> certainly cannot claim that the Mall was negligent
> in putting a fountain in a mall and thereby making
> it unsafe for cell phone users who are not
> watching where they are walking.

It's still a pathetic lawsuit, for her at best the mall should find out who posted the video and fire him if he violated any rules.

Other than that she should just have a laugh about it, it's not like somebody posted a video of her naked masterbating or anything.

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Re: Cutler incident typical of present day America
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: January 27, 2011 09:14PM

Yeah, I think that is stupid too but I was just saying that although her chances of succeeding on the privacy suit are about 40%, they are 0% suing for general negligence on the basis of the placement of the fountain.

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Re: Cutler incident typical of present day America
Posted by: JC ()
Date: January 28, 2011 05:05AM

I agree that Cutler was very likely putting the team's interest ahead of his own by taking himself out. I give him the benefit of the doubt.

However, I also would have gotten crutches, and would NOT have been seeing walking up a flight of stairs on the way to dinner later.

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Re: Cutler incident typical of present day America
Posted by: dolphaholic ()
Date: January 28, 2011 05:10AM

I think Cutlers attitude and smug-ness didn't help either, if this was Favre there never would of been a question.

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Re: Cutler incident typical of present day America
Posted by: Odenn ()
Date: January 28, 2011 05:15AM

Didn't help that there were pictures of Cutler walking around Chicago with his GF the next day, without a knee brace or what not. I'm not saying this means anything for or against his injury being viable. It just wasn't a smart idea considering the flack he's already gotten. His handlers should have told him to keep his ass indoors, or at least walk around with a cane.

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Re: Cutler incident typical of present day America
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: January 28, 2011 09:45AM


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Re: Cutler incident typical of present day America
Posted by: g_fish55 ()
Date: January 28, 2011 10:29AM

first off, i thought that i lovie smith said that he was the one that pulled cutler out, and that cutler was on the bike and stretching because he wanted to go back in,

Second, people give him all sorts of hell about this but a couple years ago when Ladanian tomlinson sits out of a playoff game against the pats all anyone could say is how bad he must feel for not playing and and how much of a competitor he is.

Its a double standard these days and its all a load of bull.

"It's been fun to get the reaction of visiting coaches to the color of their locker room. Most don't notice it, but those that do are in trouble. . . . When I talk to an opposing coach before a game and he mentions the pink walls, I know I've got him. I can't recall a coach who has stirred up a fuss about the color and then beat us.” Hayden Fry

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Re: Cutler incident typical of present day America
Posted by: Aqua&Orange ()
Date: January 28, 2011 12:51PM

Cutler is a jellyfish.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

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Re: Cutler incident typical of present day America
Posted by: TheFutt ()
Date: January 28, 2011 02:55PM

Odenn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Didn't help that there were pictures of Cutler
> walking around Chicago with his GF the next day,
> without a knee brace or what not. I'm not saying
> this means anything for or against his injury
> being viable. It just wasn't a smart idea
> considering the flack he's already gotten. His
> handlers should have told him to keep his ass
> indoors, or at least walk around with a cane.


Odenn, I usually like your posts, but this is ridiculous. An MCL tear doesn't prevent you from walking. Or walking up stairs. He didn't shatter his knee, he tore a ligament.

I don't give two sh*ts one way or another about Cutler, but I feel bad for the guy.

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Re: Cutler incident typical of present day America
Posted by: Aqua&Orange ()
Date: January 28, 2011 06:32PM

The great QB's would have never came out of that game (THE CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIP!!!!) unless wheeled off on a stretcher.

Cutler was on the sidelines riding a bike. What a loser.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

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Re: Cutler incident typical of present day America
Posted by: Odenn ()
Date: January 28, 2011 07:07PM

TheFutt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Odenn Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Didn't help that there were pictures of Cutler
> > walking around Chicago with his GF the next
> day,
> > without a knee brace or what not. I'm not
> saying
> > this means anything for or against his injury
> > being viable. It just wasn't a smart idea
> > considering the flack he's already gotten. His
> > handlers should have told him to keep his ass
> > indoors, or at least walk around with a cane.
>
>
> Odenn, I usually like your posts, but this is
> ridiculous. An MCL tear doesn't prevent you from
> walking. Or walking up stairs. He didn't shatter
> his knee, he tore a ligament.
>
> I don't give two sh*ts one way or another about
> Cutler, but I feel bad for the guy.

I'm not saying he medically needed anything. I'm saying in a world were anyone can snap a picture of you at any time and you know you're getting raped in the public eye, it would have been smart to show that you are in fact, injured. Ridiculous that it would come to that? Yes. But that's the world we live in. Had the pictures came out with him walking with a brace on his leg or walking with a cane, the headlines would have been hugely different than "OMG CUTLER WALKING AROUND?!?!?". Just sayin.

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Re: Cutler incident typical of present day America
Posted by: TheFutt ()
Date: January 28, 2011 07:41PM

So he should exaggerate the injury? Is that what you're suggesting? Or maybe he should just not go outside for 4 weeks. Maybe that's what you're getting at. I don't get it.

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Re: Cutler incident typical of present day America
Posted by: Odenn ()
Date: January 28, 2011 09:18PM

TheFutt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So he should exaggerate the injury? Is that what
> you're suggesting? Or maybe he should just not go
> outside for 4 weeks. Maybe that's what you're
> getting at. I don't get it.


Please understand that I agree with your position that the indictment that he's received via the media and such has been misplaced. I simply think that if he cared what the media thinks, he would have done exactly that. I'm no doctor, but I wonder if you can walk around without assistance easily with the injury he had. A grade 2 MCL sprain/tear? Sounds like you'd be in a lot of pain walking around shopping with a woman for hours on end.

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Re: Cutler incident typical of present day America
Posted by: Eric ()
Date: January 29, 2011 02:54AM

-------------------------------------------------------
> TheFutt Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > So he should exaggerate the injury? Is that
> what
> > you're suggesting? Or maybe he should just not
> go
> > outside for 4 weeks. Maybe that's what you're
> > getting at. I don't get it.
>

Like it or not, in this world of 24/7 anything goes media, image and perception is everything. If Cutler didn't want to catch flack about it he should have handled the entire situation, from his demeanor on the sideline to his actions after the game, with this simple fact in mind. If he just doesn't give a crap about what the media says, that is fine too, I'm just sayin'. You can't have it both ways. I agree with Oden, he made choices that invited the scrutiny.

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Re: Cutler incident typical of present day America
Posted by: TheFutt ()
Date: January 29, 2011 03:54AM

That's the sad thing though. He DOESN'T care but the media just keeps piling on. It is a legitimate case of being damned if you do, damned if you don't.

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Re: Cutler incident typical of present day America
Posted by: JC ()
Date: January 29, 2011 07:06AM

TheFutt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So he should exaggerate the injury? Is that what
> you're suggesting? Or maybe he should just not go
> outside for 4 weeks. Maybe that's what you're
> getting at. I don't get it.


You could call it exaggerating the injury, but if I were him to be seen in public I would have put a huge brace on it, and walked with a crutch or cane, declaring that "I'm able to walk but the brace is just for extra stability".

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Re: Cutler incident typical of present day America
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: January 29, 2011 07:53AM

Okay, so now the key question is do we try to recapture the world we had in the 1950's are do we live with this crappy world we have now by wearing braces when we don't have to?

And by so doing, what are we making the children who are now ages 6 to 10 become? The same thing or even worse. This is a social networking forum. I think the problem can be cured at its source, the media, the press. If we protest loudly, flood the offices of the news papers and networks over just a little incident like this. Start a revolution of our own against the media airing the complaints of bellyachers, even if they are players on the Chicago Bears, just teach the media that we don't want stories like this covered and we protest them stirring up rabble rousers, we might just get that magical America we had back.

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Re: Cutler incident typical of present day America
Posted by: JC ()
Date: January 29, 2011 08:55AM

My post was on the premise that Cutler was actually injured.

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Re: Cutler incident typical of present day America
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: January 29, 2011 09:35AM

Yeah, but my post was too. America's gotta get smarter and stop being so whiny. We are in a fight with Islamist extremists that is not going to be won by bellyachers. The press should be picketed for even making this a story and putting the idea in people's heads that in order to avoid the condemnation of idiots, they have to go through extreme measures.

If I were in the White House, instead of condemning kids who dream of going to the NFL instead of dreaming of going to the science fair, I would condemn kids who want to be a Kloury Kardashian, a Paris Hilton, or a gangbanger. If a kid wants to be in the NFL, encourage him, tell him he's got to be on the football field alone practicing when everyone else is at the dance. Then you instill the proper work ethic no matter how far he goes and what he chooses.

But to put down ambition on the part of kids who have that dream, then say nothing about gangbangers for fear you will offend your liberal base, that's just the wrong message.


I've gotten off pretty far off topic, haven't I?

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Re: Cutler incident typical of present day America
Posted by: JC ()
Date: January 29, 2011 11:34AM

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I've gotten off pretty far off topic, haven't I?

Yeah but what the hell, it's the off season.

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Re: Cutler incident typical of present day America
Posted by: Panteraize ()
Date: January 30, 2011 10:33AM

Chyren B Wrote:
----------------------------------
Yeah, but my post was too. America's gotta get smarter and stop being so whiny. We are in a fight with Islamist extremists that is not going to be won by bellyachers. The press should be picketed for even making this a story and putting the idea in people's heads that in order to avoid the condemnation of idiots, they have to go through extreme measures.

If I were in the White House, instead of condemning kids who dream of going to the NFL instead of dreaming of going to the science fair, I would condemn kids who want to be a Kloury Kardashian, a Paris Hilton, or a gangbanger. If a kid wants to be in the NFL, encourage him, tell him he's got to be on the football field alone practicing when everyone else is at the dance. Then you instill the proper work ethic no matter how far he goes and what he chooses.

But to put down ambition on the part of kids who have that dream, then say nothing about gangbangers for fear you will offend your liberal base, that's just the wrong message.

------------------------------------------------

I'm sorry but I have no idea what you're trying to say. I re-read what you wrote 3 times but I can't make sense of your train of thought. You're kind of all over the place.

You start out with the message that we are just a country of whiners and that whining won't help us defeat the terrorists! confused smiley whatever that is supposed to mean, and then you condemn the press for "making this a story"

What do you have a problem with the fact the press reported that Cutler sustained a questionable injury and didn't go back in the game despie not seeming too hurt. Or are you all worked about about the press reporting about all the criticism Cutler was getting from current NFL players for not getting back into the game? Both are newsworhty to me. And going through "extreme measures" to avoid the condemnation of idiots", what EXTREME MEASURES are you referring to? The fake knee brace idea that someone here suggested that the media had nothing to do with? What exactly are you furious at the media for???

Next, you go into this rant about the White House speaking critically about the culture in this country that has led little kids to only care about becoming NFL players (an incredibly statistically unlikely possibility) instead of entertaining other future possibilities that involve getting an education and encouraging their interest in different professional career opportunities. No, if the White House expressed such a sentiment as you claim, it was likely in the spirit of what I just said and not of stepping on children's dreams as you so eloquently distorted it to sound like. I would agree with not playing in to a kids hopes of being a rich basketball player (and heres the important part) AT THE EXPENSE OF THEIR EDUCATION AND FUTURE POSSIBILITIES OF EXPLORING A DIVERSE WORLD OF CAREER OPPORTUNITIES. Their sports hopes should be encouraged up to the point that it interferes with their education. So yes, one shouldn't ignore preparing kids for a future outside of their unlikely dream of becoming a professional athlete.

That being said, I agree that idolizing Kardashian and Hilton for being famous for doing nothing should be condemned along with young girls who aspire to live that type of meaningless existence and lifestyle of unearned luxury and undeserved attention.

Now, the comment about the White House not condemning people for encouraging kids to become gangbangers for fear of offending their liberal base??? Hahaha, what???? What is that even supposed to mean? Yeah cuz everyone knows those liberals are always looking out for the best interests of gang members? eye rolling smileyeye rolling smileyeye rolling smiley Did you actually hear yourself say that sentence before you typed it out? And where did that come from. That had nothing to do with anything evern remotely discussed in this discussion thread, but I'll respond to it anyway given how bizarre, illogical, and downright dishonest of a characterization that is.

First of all, there is no epidemic of young children everywhere, of all backgrounds aspiring to be gangbangers. Where you got that idea I can only imagine. Gang members are created in low soocioeconomic areas, in conditions where young males growing up have no father figures to look up to and parent them, and education is not valued in their area, and often the only attractive option is joining a gang where you feel like you have support and protection in dangerous areas and being dirt poor, you all of a sudden have a way to make money and support yourself.

It goes without saying that being in a gang is a bad life choice and the White House doesn't need to make some sort of random public statement condemning people for encouraging young people to aspire to the gang lifestyle because outside of the process I just described, no one is actively pushing that message that gang life is an attractive option for kids and the notion that the president wouldn't discourage kids from joining gangs because somehow liberals would be offended by the president criticising Kryps and Bloods is insanely stupid on a level that is staggering. It is hard to belive that a rational human being actually thinks that liberals support gang members to the extent that they don't want to offend them because that is somehow a part of liberal ideology. There's nothing politically correct about defending or protecting gangbangers and refusing to criticize them.

That was the dumbest thing I've read in the 4 or so years I've belonged to the Phins.com website (Miami Thunder postings included). It's comments like that that threaten to completely strip an individual of their credibility so that people who hear their seemingly rational and intelligent opinions about other topics have to take them with a grain of salt because they can never take that person completely seriously ever again. You're better than that Chyren.

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Re: Cutler incident typical of present day America
Posted by: ghotirule ()
Date: January 30, 2011 11:34AM


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Re: Cutler incident typical of present day America
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: January 30, 2011 01:19PM


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Re: Cutler incident typical of present day America
Posted by: Panteraize ()
Date: January 30, 2011 03:19PM

After reading your incredibly long-winded diatribe chock-full of assumptions about points that I made I can understand why you hate liberals. I would hate them to if they believed any of the things you talked about. I basically agree with most of what you said in your response to me, which tells me you've either misunderstood my points or assumed that if I made some point about something I must then subscribe to a bunch of crazy ideas that show up nowhere in my response. That's ok, this happens to me a lot when I have conversations with conservatives (not saying you are one) who espouse all these horrific opinions that they claim liberals subscribe to, of which I share absolutely none of, nor know any other liberal-minded people who do.

First of all,
"liberals today, (which you suspiciously sound like)"

No need for suspicion. No need to act like that's something to be embarassed about either. I'm not some rat hiding in a closet. I am liberal. But honestly these days I don't even know what that means anymore. I just know I don't hate people who don't look like me (not saying you do) I am all for equal rights (i.e. gay people and the like) and I loathe the idea of religious extremists of any cloth running the country. Thats about it. All of the crazy stuff you attributed to liberals, I don't subscribe to any of it. Example:


This "you have to excuse them, what else can they do the poor creatures," attitude about gangbangers is ridiculous. How you got that from what I wrote I have no idea. I was simply pointing out common socio-economic factors that contribute to the development of gang membership as an explanation of why it doesn't pay to waste your breathe condemning anyone for encouraging our youth to join gangs because frankly I don't think kids join gangs because youth pastors or teachers or counselors or anyone tells them to, I think they do it for the reasons I explained. How your law enforcement experience has taught you otherwise I honestly would be intrigued to know, as I would be shocked if you have experience with gangbangers from 2 parent homes, in upper-middle class areas, who grew up with fathers, live in safe neighborhoods with little crime, who grew up in families that value education, etc. My experience (3 years as a Mental Health Counselor working in substance abuse treatment in Miami, having seen plenty of gang members who come in for compulsory treatment often as a condition of parole, court-order, etc.) all of those client share the socio-economic background I talked about, at least thus far that I have seen. And I don't think I should be called rascist for saying so, based on my own personal experience.

But more importantly, I don't think that's any excuse for their violent behavior. I think prosecutors should throw the effin book at them if they mow some bystander down in a hail of gunfire shooting at their enemies. So let's get that clear, understanding some of the socio-economic factors that are involved in the creation and sustainment of gangs and excusing their behavior based on some sort of phony altrustic liberal mindset that its not their faults and we shouldn't punish them are two WAY different things. Don'nt put words in my mouth, I believe we're on the same page on this topic. Anyone who believes the aforementioned statement you wrote ("excuse them, what else can they do the poor creatures" needs to have their head examined.


As for the whole Cutler thing. Never once did say the press should have nailed him without the facts. There is a problem here with sensationalist journalism jumping to conclusions before having the facts. But that does not mean observations can not be reported on as just that. Cutler did sit the rest of the game, he was on the sideline standing, on a bike riding, and did come out for one series after the injury. Does that make him a sissy who was faking and then didnt want to return? No. But it is worthy of asking questions about what was seen so that we can find out what did really happen. I agree chastising him before the facts are in was wrong, but writing a story about what occured is not wrong as long as there is not any sensationalism in it, just pure attempts made at discovery regarding the facts.

And certainly writing about all the NFL players who attacked him is newsworthy as that was highly unusual and highly inappropriate, at least in my book. So no, I don't think the media should have attacked Cutler without information on what the truth is, nor do I think he should have worn a fake knee brace (a suggestion that does not placate me or my 'kind' as you suggested it would). I also don't think whining is the right word to describe what the media did wrong here. Shotty journalism is more appropriate, and the consumers of that journalism, which does not include me despite your insistance that it does, I suppose are guilty of creating a market for that type of thing. But no, with that opinion, I don't think I'm part of the problem.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2011 03:22PM by Panteraize.

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Re: Cutler incident typical of present day America
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: January 30, 2011 04:26PM

Panteraize Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> After reading your incredibly long-winded diatribe
> chock-full of assumptions about points that I made
> I can understand why you hate liberals.

RESPONSE: Now, as you say many times below, where did I say I "hate them?" Don't put words in my mouth. Don't assume my position. (Isn't that what you say a 1000 times below?)

I would
> hate them to if they believed any of the things
> you talked about.

RESPONSE: No, I don't hate them. They are misguided. Instead of taking from the 60's the correct lession which is don't stereotype people, they have come up with new classifications such is when it is between the Black and the White, choose the Black, when it is between the man and the Woman, choose the woman, when it is between the Black and the Hispanic, choose the Hispanic, when it is between the Christian and the Islamist, choose the Islamist, between the Gay and the straight choose the Gay.

Hell, this was the very thing we fought AGAINST in the 60's, choosing your position based on the status of the person and not what he is saying.

The one group I did get endorsed by was the West Hollywood Gay Democrats when I when through just that analysis and said, "Hey, I was at Berkeley in the late 60's. We were taught to think not check boxes." They said "Hey, you're right" and voted to endorse me. And the campaign manager of that never even registered to vote female (who was also Black)'s after the vote was announced callled them a bunch of faggots and walked out of the room. That's your liberals for you.


I basically agree with most of
> what you said in your response to me, which tells
> me you've either misunderstood my points or
> assumed that if I made some point about something
> I must then subscribe to a bunch of crazy ideas
> that show up nowhere in my response. That's ok,
> this happens to me a lot when I have conversations
> with conservatives (not saying you are one) who
> espouse all these horrific opinions that they
> claim liberals subscribe to, of which I share
> absolutely none of, nor know any other
> liberal-minded people who do.
>
> First of all,
> "liberals today, (which you suspiciously sound
> like)"
>
> No need for suspicion. No need to act like that's
> something to be embarassed about either. I'm not
> some rat hiding in a closet. I am liberal. But
> honestly these days I don't even know what that
> means anymore. I just know I don't hate people who
> don't look like me (not saying you do) I am all
> for equal rights (i.e. gay people and the like)
> and I loathe the idea of religious extremists of
> any cloth running the country.

RESPONSE: Then you better get ready to oppose Islam extremists with every ounce of your being because that is what they are about. Good example, I appeared before the West Covina Democratic Club, before the vote, they were discussing club business and one guy wanted to pass a resolution condemning Islam's practice of forcing women to wear Burkas. What do you think these representatives of the party of Geraldine Ferraro did? Defend women and their right to dress how they please?

Nope, let's see women versus Islamist, Islamists trump women because they are neither the ususal religion and that religion is a minority in this country? It died for lack of even a second. (Since I was a visiting candidate, I had no vote)


Thats about it. All
> of the crazy stuff you attributed to liberals, I
> don't subscribe to any of it. Example:
>
>
> This "you have to excuse them, what else can they
> do the poor creatures," attitude about gangbangers
> is ridiculous. How you got that from what I wrote
> I have no idea.

RESPONSE: I don't know. I guess it was all that talk about them growing up in socially deprived neighborhoods with few educational opportunities.



I was simply pointing out common
> socio-economic factors that contribute to the
> development of gang membership as an explanation
> of why it doesn't pay to waste your breathe
> condemning anyone for encouraging our youth to
> join gangs

RESPONSE: I never said liberals encourage youth to join gangs. I said they make excuses when they do which is just as bad. And those were the kind of excuses you were making.

If a young man has failed and I asked why and he says "My father brutalized me and my mother sold me for sex in exchange for drugs, etc." I listen to that kid.

When he starts, as you did, by blaming the neighborhood in general, the odds against a Black man, all that general crap, I tune him out.


because frankly I don't think kids join
> gangs because youth pastors or teachers or
> counselors or anyone tells them to

RESPONSE: Oh, come on. Now you are saying I am saying priests and teachers are urging them to join a gang and you say I AM MISREPRESENTING YOUR POSITION. That's hilarious.


, I think they
> do it for the reasons I explained. How your law
> enforcement experience has taught you otherwise I
> honestly would be intrigued to know, as I would be
> shocked if you have experience with gangbangers
> from 2 parent homes, in upper-middle class areas,
> who grew up with fathers, live in safe
> neighborhoods with little crime, who grew up in
> families that value education, etc.

RESPONSE: Google, Esteban Nunez, son of former California Assembly Speaker Fabio Nunez. Formed his own little gang. Got ejected out of a party. He and his gang caught two poor kids later leaving the party and stabbed them both. One died.



My experience
> (3 years as a Mental Health Counselor working in
> substance abuse treatment in Miami, having seen
> plenty of gang members who come in for compulsory
> treatment often as a condition of parole,
> court-order, etc.) all of those client share the
> socio-economic background I talked about, at least
> thus far that I have seen.

RESPONSE: You never finished the story. And these also are drug users who have to commit crimes to support their habit.

And again, the question is whether it is better to tell them, "Hey! The ghetto is a big neighborhood. You take life as you find it and you've got to do your best to succeed. YOu have no excuse to fail. Otherwise, the White guy in Orange County could have an excuse to fail because he doesn't live in Beverly Hills. There is always someone better off than you. But as long as this isn't Nazi Germany and you are being prohibited from going to the library, you need to pick up those books and get at it."

The problem is that with most kids, middle class or not, your kids at home or not, it is hard enough to get them to study, let alone given them an excuse. And when the Courts keep putting these gangbangers out on the street and bullying good kids is the only excitement they get......


And I don't think I
> should be called rascist for saying so, based on
> my own personal experience.

RESPONSE: It's called "reverse racism" and you don't have to be Black to be guilty of it. You should not encourage low expectations.


>
> But more importantly, I don't think that's any
> excuse for their violent behavior. I think
> prosecutors should throw the effin book at them if
> they mow some bystander down in a hail of gunfire
> shooting at their enemies.

RESPONSE: See even there you miss the point. They don't mow down their enemies. The gang members in the neighborhood that they come to looking for a victim takes care and usually is not the victim of a drive by. The victim is usually your science fair nerd kid or that athlete whose efforts Obama back-handed in his state of the union speech.

So let's get that
> clear, understanding some of the socio-economic
> factors that are involved in the creation and
> sustainment of gangs

RESPONSE: With all the slavery and segregation taking place from 1517, when the first slave arrived until 1964, how do you explain the undeniable fact that despite all that, we produced people who succeeded to a great degree, but more recently when excuses have been mouthed as you have the numbers are going down, dope is increasing, gangs are increasing. My explanation is that there are too many people around providing people an excuse for failure.

Forget the excuses, lock up the gang-members. Provide a safe environment for the Black kids who want to play sports, go into science, and even be record stars.


>
> As for the whole Cutler thing. Never once did say
> the press should have nailed him without the
> facts. There is a problem here with sensationalist
> journalism jumping to conclusions before having
> the facts. But that does not mean observations can
> not be reported on as just that. Cutler did sit
> the rest of the game, he was on the sideline
> standing, on a bike riding, and did come out for
> one series after the injury. Does that make him a
> sissy who was faking and then didnt want to
> return? No.

RESPONSE: No, what that means is that there is no story. Period.



But it is worthy of asking questions
> about what was seen so that we can find out what
> did really happen.

RESPONSE: That's just the point. There is no story and you create one by making insinuations that he is faking.


I agree chastising him before
> the facts are in was wrong, but writing a story
> about what occured is not wrong as long as there
> is not any sensationalism in it,

RESPONSE: When you write a story throwing out the possibility of misconduct without any evidence that is sensationalism.

just pure
> attempts made at discovery regarding the facts.

RESPONSE: What facts? What's your evidence he was NOT injured?
>

> And certainly writing about all the NFL players
> who attacked him is newsworthy as that was highly
> unusual and highly inappropriate, at least in my
> book.

RESPONSE: No one would have known what those players thought until the press reported it in the first place.



So no, I don't think the media should have
> attacked Cutler without information on what the
> truth is, nor do I think he should have worn a
> fake knee brace (a suggestion that does not
> placate me or my 'kind' as you suggested it
> would). I also don't think whining is the right
> word to describe what the media did wrong here.


> Shotty journalism is more appropriate, and the
> consumers of that journalism, which does not
> include me despite your insistance that it does, I
> suppose are guilty of creating a market for that
> type of thing. But no, with that opinion, I don't
> think I'm part of the problem.

RESPONSE: But it's worse than Shoddy journalism. Shoddy journalism is taking a real story and butchering the facts. Sensationalism is taking a "non-story" and publishing "feelings" "speculation" and "cynicism" based solely on somebody's opinion that the guy is faking it.

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