The more mock drafts I see, the more I think the right thing to do with this year's 1st round pick is to trade it for a 1st rounder (and change) next year. Perhaps, with 2 first rounders next year, we'll have the ammo to trade up and grab Andrew Luck.

FinFan_83

Andrew Luck ain't worth it but I think if Ingram or one of the other QBs, Gabbert, Newton, Mallet, Locker are not available at 15 and we can fill our other WR and OL holes, it might be better to trade out anyway because it will give Henne another year to see what he is really worth and who knows who will join the QB field next year or what FA might become available.

Ingram at 15 sounds like winner

Ingram at 15 sounds like washing my mouth out with a revolver.





There is no needs to draft a RB in the 1st round.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Sparano and crew have ruined Chad Hene, so i would not put my hopes in him getting any better

Agree with A&O (There's a first!) No Ingram. Trade down and get a few extra picks. There will be as good backs later in the draft. We needs some picks and to draft well

if Locker is there at 15 I think we take him

If we could drop and in the 2-5 come out with 5 of these guys I would be happy

Leshoure, Ryan Williams, Demarco Murray, Shane Vereen, Daniel Thomas
Jerrel Jernigan, Titus Young, Jonathan baldwin, Dwayne Harris, Deandre Brown
Pat Devlin, Andy Dalton, Nate Enderle
Kris O dowd, Tim barnes, Jake Kirkpatrick
Deunta Willaims, Deandre Mcdaniel, Quinton Carter, Mark barron


I saw one article make a point that Chase Daniels put up better numbers at missou than Gabbert and wasn't even drafted?

A lot will be in this weekend's Sr bowl. This is where Koa Misi really increased his stock

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ingram at 15 sounds like washing my mouth out with
> a revolver.
>
>
>
>
>
> There is no needs to draft a RB in the 1st round.


RESPONSE: Really, Ricky is gone and Ronnie is old and injured and the back up are gumbies, neither one of those backups have had a decent run of more than 2 yards all season. So what are you seeing that I am not seeing? I mean Patrick Cobbs and Lex Hilliard? We are going into next year with one of them being a starting RB?

If you can't get a QB at 15, get Ingram.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2011 08:55AM by ChyrenB.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Phinsfan2 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > > There is no needs to draft a RB in the 1st
> > round.
>
> > Taking a RB in the 1st round is a wasted pick.
> > You can get elite RB's in the 2nd or 3rd round
> > nearly every draft and the position has become
> a
> > shared position in the NFL so no one back
> carries
> > the load themselves.
>
> RESPONSE: This is the "flaw" (pun intended) in
> your argument. So by that logic (not saying he is
> but your argument would say DON'T DRAFT HIM) even
> if Walter Payton, OJ Simpson, Larry Csonka, Bo
> Jackson, Jim Brown, or any one of a host of other
> great RB were available you would say "No let's
> not draft him because the RB has become a shared
> position and you can get by with two average guys
> instead of one great one."

It's funny that all the guys you mentioned finished their NFL careers over 20 years ago. The RB position isn't what it used to be, and you just proved it.

The response to Dolphaholic also serves to respond to your post PF2, which you were posting while I was typing it.

We need QB, RB(at least 2) , speedy WR threat, OL , TE & S. Hopefully we will add some via FA.

The more picks the better chance we have to get them, especially based on our recent draft experience

Cobbs and Hilliard haven't did much at all. I am not counting on them other than a 3rd,4th or 5th solution

jlyell13 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cobbs and Hilliard haven't did much at all. I am
> not counting on them other than a 3rd,4th or 5th
> solution

Actually, they BOTH looked pretty good LAST YEAR behind a better O-Line. I think Hilliard could be our future at FB, as Polite is proving to be only a short-yardage specialist. What we need is someone built like Ricky or Ronnie who can break tackles and run up the middle. Hilliard is inconsistent doing that. Cobbs can still hit the edge pretty well and he's a very good receiver out of the backfield. And, finally, there's Kory Sheets. He's an unknown at this point.

What does this all mean? I think it all depends on the offensive system we run next year. Even losing both Ricky and Ronnie, we may be fine with ONE decent RB to replace them and give Cobbs, Sheets, and Hilliard more opportunities.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2011 10:08AM by montequi.

Phinsfan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > What...no mention of Marion Mottley or Red
> Grange?
>
> So your argument for drafting a RB at #15 is to
> highlight the success of five RB's that were all
> top 8 selections 30, 40 or 50 years ago?
>
> The game has changed Bob. Its a pass first
> league now and has been for 15-20 years.


RESPONSE: This was the part responded to when you made your post. Just because the clock and the NFL trend has changed, are there no backs with Jim Brown or OJ abilities out there? That hardly seems scientific. However, if you say that we now ignore OJs then I say, "Let's not."

> > But if you want to argue that Mark Ingram is in
> that class, please don't bother.

RESPONSE: I put in parenthesis (not saying he is). But you really don't know until someone hits the field.

Dan Marino hardly projected in college what he became in the pros. Otherwise, he would never have been the sixth QB picked in the draft.


> Ronnie has NEVER been great. He's only barely
> been 'pretty good' in a couple of seasons.

RESPONSE: Oh, I beg to differ. There was a moment there when he was leading the league in rushing and considered unstoppable. Was it HOF? No. But if we had him in that form today.....Santo Cielo!

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dan Marino hardly projected in college what he
> became in the pros. Otherwise, he would never
> have been the sixth QB picked in the draft.
>
Not correct. If Dan would have come out after his junior year, he probably would have been a top 5 pick. Injuries during his senior year and pre-draft controversy all contributed to him falling in ranking. Dan Marino was no secret to the NFL.

montequi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ChyrenB Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Dan Marino hardly projected in college what he
> > became in the pros. Otherwise, he would never
> > have been the sixth QB picked in the draft.
> >
> Not correct. If Dan would have come out after his
> junior year, he probably would have been a top 5
> pick. Injuries during his senior year and
> pre-draft controversy all contributed to him
> falling in ranking. Dan Marino was no secret to
> the NFL.


RESPONSE: The question is not whether anyone knew he would be a top 5 pick. Gabbert and Mallet will be top 5 picks. The point is no one knew he would become one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time.

I don't understand all the arguing over the 15th pick.

We will be trading down, so please start talkin about who we trading with, and what selections we get from it.

montequi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jlyell13 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Cobbs and Hilliard haven't did much at all. I
> am
> > not counting on them other than a 3rd,4th or
> 5th
> > solution
>
> Actually, they BOTH looked pretty good LAST YEAR
> behind a better O-Line. I think Hilliard could be
> our future at FB, as Polite is proving to be only
> a short-yardage specialist. What we need is
> someone built like Ricky or Ronnie who can break
> tackles and run up the middle. Hilliard is
> inconsistent doing that. Cobbs can still hit the
> edge pretty well and he's a very good receiver out
> of the backfield. And, finally, there's Kory
> Sheets. He's an unknown at this point.
>
> What does this all mean? I think it all depends
> on the offensive system we run next year. Even
> losing both Ricky and Ronnie, we may be fine with
> ONE decent RB to replace them and give Cobbs,
> Sheets, and Hilliard more opportunities.


i agree with monty. one good running back may be sufficient for next season. lots of good teams have one good running back with lesser back ups in situational roles. besides, we don't have a lot of ammo in the draft to select two running backs considering all the holes on the roster. one good running back for now and maybe down the road we will add another.

i also agree with the trade down. we could drop ten spots and still get a quality RB (mikel leshoure, Illinois = beast with high ceiling) while grabbing a mid-late second rounder which we could use to solidy the line or grab a receiver. this seems like the best route considering the numerous positions that need to be upgraded. also, the phins must be active in FA mainly with the oline and possibly receiver.

this trade down is based on the premise that no QB is worth trading up for or drafting at 15. The QB selection is based completely on the conviction of Ireland and Sporano. they must correctly identify talent then pull the trigger whether in draft or FA.

Why would you draft a position in the 1st round that only has a shelf like of 6 years, maybe 8...at most if they are great!? Prime years.



Running backs dont last past 30 anymore. The running backs Bob named were all playing in an era when they (the R was the best athelete (and most of the time the biggest) on the field.

If you have a good line, Stevie Wonder could be your Runningback.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Mia1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't understand all the arguing over the 15th
> pick.
>
> We will be trading down, so please start talkin
> about who we trading with, and what selections we
> get from it.

How does Thiggy figure into this? There must be a link somewhere.

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why would you draft a position in the 1st round
> that only has a shelf like of 6 years, maybe
> 8...at most if they are great!? Prime years.
>

RESPONSE: Hey, if I could get 6 to 8 years of production like Ricky or Ronnie were at their best, hell, I'd give up a number 15 draft choice.
>
>
> Running backs dont last past 30 anymore. The
> running backs Bob named were all playing in an era
> when they (the RBack) was the best athelete (and most
> of the time the biggest) on the field.

RESPONSE: Actually no. That (comparison size of the RBack) was true in Jim Brown's era but hardly true in the days of Eric Dickerson or OJ. OJ used to say that all the time. Csonza was the bull but he was hardly as big as the defensive linemen of the day, Mean Joe Green and Vern den Herder.


>
> If you have a good line, Stevie Wonder could be
> your Runningback.

RESPONSE: Now talk about change, I think it is much harder to get together a collection like Jim Langer, Bob Kuchenberg, etc. that can dominate a defensive line today like they did. That, I think, is a thing of the past.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2011 02:34PM by ChyrenB.

Expect the Titans, possibly the Bills, even browns, to make a run at Thigpen

jlyell13 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Expect the Titans, possibly the Bills, even
> browns, to make a run at Thigpen

Oh, be still my heart! Signed Mia1.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2011 02:36PM by ChyrenB.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RESPONSE: The question is not whether anyone knew
> he would be a top 5 pick. Gabbert and Mallet will
> be top 5 picks. The point is no one knew he would
> become one of the greatest quarterbacks of all
> time.

Dude. You're talking like crystal ball stuff here. Who the heck can predict ANY guy coming out of college will be one of the greatest of all time? People even had their doubts about Peyton Manning. You just never know!

That's just my point! You don't have a crystal ball. Saying that Mark Ingram will never be a Jim Brown or even a Ricky Williams is impossible to say. Everyone at the time would have laughed if you had said that Dan Marino would be greater that Johnny Unitas and Bart Starr.

One thing is for sure. Ingram is rated the best running back in this draft and we need a new first string running back. No. Cobbs and Hilliard won't do.

My point was that had people known that Marino would be Marino, he would have been picked even ahead of Elway, let alone not the 6th QB taken.

People then brought up his injury in his junior year, still even had he not been injured no one could have suspected the greatness that lied there.

The point is that all you can do is draft the best available each year and even at that it is a crap shoot.