I realize none of us are scouts or anything, but a question for the guys that watch alot of CFB. Of the more recent 1st rnd QB busts; Lienart, Jamarcus, Quinn etc. was there something you guys dis-liked (or liked for that matter) about these guys coming out, please be honest, if you thought someone was gonna pan out but just didn't for some reason or another, please share your thoughts. I guess i'm just amazed at how the pro scouts and GMs can be so wrong some times and am curious if the average fan saw flaws. Please dont just re-quote what Mel Kiper said at the time, give me your honest opinions of what you guys thought at the time they were drafted.

Payton Manning and Ryan Leaf.

At the very moment when they were drafted i had my doubts if the colts made the right choice.

With that been said i know i have nothing to be ashamed of for that thought because a multimillion dollar organization like the chargers picked him # 2 overall and they were dead wrong.

Thats scout who convinced them to pick leaf must have been fired i guess. Because thats one of the biggest busts of alltime. Just saying.

I had a really strong feeling that Brady Quinn would be a bust. I honeslty was on the "Team Ginn" bandwagon.


A year prior to their respective draft I read an article about how much of a weightlifting freak Brady Quinn was. It reminded me eerily to a prior QB bust, Jim Duckenmiller. Druckenmiller's workouts were notorious at VT (sure hokie can back this up) holding many notable lifting records.

For some reason, maybe in part of his desire to lift weights, I had a really bad feeling that Quinn would not be in the league 5 years, or even contribute at all. So far, I am right on this.

Where I am wrong is Vince Young. I knew he was a bad "mechanical" passer. But, I thought he was a flat out winner and that any mechanical problems he had would be nullified by his ability to put a team solely on his back and win games. Boy, I was wrong. Or atleast, I am wrong up to this point.

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"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

I felt the opposite of you aqua as far as brady quinn....Maybe due to the fact that we needed a QB so bad and all the buzz about him.

PS> Saw a couple of games as well and he looked sharp.

Well I can honestly say that I always try to reserve my opinion on a player. There are so many intangibles that you just never know. So much depends on the coaching he gets when he comes in. Most NFL coaches don't want a project. They want the skills honed in College so they can just teach the system.

Quinn I never liked because he is from ND. I hate ND. But look at what happened to him. A lousy team, questionable coaching, a cocky attitude, lost confidence. What happens if he gets proper coaching? No doubt he would relish the opportunity, but would he take advantage of it?

On the other hand look at Orton. Bad team, questionable coaching, in and out. Then he goes to Denver with a coach that knows how to coach QBs and call plays. What a difference. What happens if he comes here with a lousy Henning? Bust for sure.

The talent in the NFL is so close that a player must take advantage of opportunity when it comes or he is out. And most of the time that out lasts a long time.

My question is:

If the professionally paid talent evaluators are wrong 30-40% of the time (or more) then what relative value could an avid college football watcher offer?

Us fans get an opinion on a few guys – but the pros have to rate EVERY player in the draft, then boil that down to the ones that fit their basic profile, check their backgrounds, work them out, share dinner, have a few beers and yet – it’s not a sure thing.

Now with that said I thought Pat White was a kind of “thrilling” pick and had visions of him ripping it up in the NFL. But my info was from a few showcase clips, draft mags and enthusiasm for the WildCat. How’d that pick turn out?

The shock was – our staff didn’t notice the kid’s horrible mechanics until he was in training camp. How could that possibly happen? The only answer is they NEVER worked him out. Ouch.

The draft is also like a feeding frenzy. The hype gets started and no doubt it affects the outcome. All of us get attached to our opinions and sometimes forget it’s not a fact.

That's why they get the big bucks and we fans just rant.

The draft is always a crap shoot. We fans really scratch our heads at a Pat White type pick through. I wonder who is really responsible for that. My guess is Henning talked the rest into it.

I don't think so Leon. The Pat White pick was from Parcells.

But so was the pick of Henning so does it really matter?

Just my opinion and I'm sure you fleet fingered Google-miesters will find contrary examples, but:

I don't want a College QB who is feet first and arm second. Whether his physical style is speed (Pat White, Vince Young) or Power (Jamarcus Russell, Brady Quinn, or 'ouch' Cam Newton).

I don't like short QB's. If your under 6'2'' You better be Joe Montana (or Drew Brees). I want a tree who can see the field Brady, Marino, Manning, Elway, Aikman, etc

I think NFL game accuracy is a different world than NCAA accuracy or workout accuracy. The windows are so small and the db's are so quick and athletic. There just aren't guys getting 5 yards open every other play like the do in college(unless Jason Allen is in coverage). and the corners close like guided missiles. IMO it's just impossible to tell if a guy is NFL accurate until he plays some full speed NFL games.

KB Wrote:
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> Just my opinion and I'm sure you fleet fingered
> Google-miesters will find contrary examples, but:
>
> I don't want a College QB who is feet first and
> arm second. Whether his physical style is speed
> (Pat White, Vince Young) or Power (Jamarcus
> Russell, Brady Quinn, or 'ouch' Cam Newton).
>
> I don't like short QB's. If your under 6'2'' You
> better be Joe Montana (or Drew Brees). I want
> a tree who can see the field Brady, Marino,
> Manning, Elway, Aikman, etc
>
> I think NFL game accuracy is a different world
> than NCAA accuracy or workout accuracy. The
> windows are so small and the db's are so quick and
> athletic. There just aren't guys getting 5 yards
> open every other play like the do in
> college(unless Jason Allen is in coverage). and
> the corners close like guided missiles. IMO it's
> just impossible to tell if a guy is NFL accurate
> until he plays some full speed NFL games.

Very good points. What a QB has upstairs is more important than just about everything else. Of coarse he MUST be accurate. His smarts in reading defenses will make his release quick enough but the accuracy must also be there.
That is why I am unsure about Henne. Does he have it up stairs? He has not played long enough and with the right coaches to tell as far as I'm concerned.
I've seen too many QBs develop late to give up on Henne. BUT WE NEED TO BRING IN SOMEONE TO COMPETE. PREFERABLY A VET. I don't see us drafting a QB that can start right away.

Honestly, Luck is the only one in that category. Maybe Mallet, maybe.

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"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

I guess the one that really gets me as the biggest bust is Jamarcus, in the minds of the average lay fan was he a good pick at #1 overall? I don't remember the Mel Kipers and such screaming what a horrible pick so i'm wondering how everyone could of been so wrong?

I actually do. I watch NFL Network on draft day because I can't stand Boomer on ESPN, and I love Mike Mayock.


I clearly remember Mike Mayock saying Russell was going to be a major bust.

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"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Aqua funny you mention Druckenmiller. Guy was strong as an ox. Could not comprehend a playbook. And could be found downtown probably 6 nights a week.

Hokie Phin Wrote:
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> Aqua funny you mention Druckenmiller. Guy was
> strong as an ox. Could not comprehend a playbook.
> And could be found downtown probably 6 nights a
> week.


Then he could barely get a roster spot in Vince McMahon's "XFL"