The trade oprtion...........41

Trade option.

I'm 28.

I can't vote for either option. I would vote for an option that includes building a balanced team, including a good QB, without having to give up multiple draft picks to get the QB. Of all the QBs being mentioned over and over (Peyton, Brady, Ben, etc), most/all of them were acquired in the draft without the drafting team trading up to get them. The exception is the Giants, who traded up for Eli; but he is a classic example of a solid QB winning a SB when surrounded by a great team, not a great QB carrying a team to a SB. Also, it's hard to deny that the Giants would have been much better off staying at the #4 pick and taking Rivers, while not giving up a future 1st rounder. They traded two 1st rounders and got the lesser QB.

When you trade 2 first round picks to get a QB with a 43% hit rate you are doubling your bust risk for one player. So you have a 57% chance of wasting 2 first round picks on one player who could be lousy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/18/2010 11:27AM by Northeast Fin Fan.

I voted to build the rest of the team. I believe the O- and D-Lines are the heart of a team. I'm 55.

Rick

Coaches/GMs and overall front offices don't last long enough in the NFL anymore to build around a QB. Getting a franchise QB and building around them usually takes a minimum of 3 years. Marino never got the full team he needed (i.e. running game, defense). Elway got it late in his career.

On the other hand, if you already have a strong team and find the right QB, you're set (Brady, Rothlisberger, Brees).

So, for me, the answer is #2.

Phinsfan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> montequi Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Coaches/GMs and overall front offices don't
> last
> > long enough in the NFL anymore to build around
> a
> > QB. Getting a franchise QB and building around
> > them usually takes a minimum of 3 years.
> Marino
> > never got the full team he needed (i.e. running
> > game, defense). Elway got it late in his
> career.
>
>
> If you answer your QB problem you get to hang
> around.
>
Gee, thanks...smarta**.


> > On the other hand, if you already have a strong
> > team and find the right QB, you're set (Brady,
> > Rothlisberger, Brees).
> >
> > So, for me, the answer is #2.
>
> The notion that the Brady stepped into a ready
> made team is a fallacy.
>
> The 1999 pats went 8-8 and they went 5-11 in
> Brady's rookie year of 2000 (DNP).
>
> Of the 22 offensive and defensive starters in 1999
> (the season after which he was drafted) only 6
> were still starters or part time starters in 2001
> when he led them to the Super Bowl: OL- Damien
> Woody, DE Willie McGinnest, MLB's Johnson and
> Bruschi, CB Ty law and S - Lawyer Milloy.
>
> That team was assembled both AFTER and at the same
> time he was acquired.

So the fact that they played in the Superbowl just 3 years before Brady was drafted doesn't count? They were 9-7 and 8-8 the 2 years before they drafted Brady. We were 1-11 just 4 years ago. Fact it, Brady walked into a good situation.

We finally have a decent defense taking shape and now you want to trade some of it to roll the dice on a franchise QB? Fine if it works. You're fired if it doesn't and the team is set back for years.
Nothing is for certain in the NFL. You could get your future hall of famer and then get him killed behind a patchwork O-line.
We had Marino and the greatest coach the game has ever seen and still could not put it all together. Teams like San Diego has had a string of QBs that we drool over and can't get past the "above average" label.
Spending multiple draft picks and giving up proven players for a shot at a franchise QB is a crap shoot with a very low chance for success.
Build the team first with a solid foundation and keep a lookout for the franchise.
I'm 62 but I have a 40 year old novia sooo, I don't act it.

> Sure there were some vital peices to the puzzle in place when Brady was drafted (Brown, Bruschi, Law, McGinnest, Milloy, Vinatieri) but the notion that Brady stepped into a team ready to go to the super bowl with a good QB is wrong. Belechick GUTTED that team from the day he walked in the door and built the vast majority of that team around a QB on his roster.

> That's not even remotely similar to the situations Roethlisberger or Brees walked into in Pitt and New Orleans as you implied in your original post.

> That's all I'm saying.

Actually, it is pretty similar. Brady, Roethlisberger, Warner, even Tony Romo, or even Dan Marino, all started their respective runs on teams that were equipped to go a long way. Brees to a lesser degree.

Brady, Romo, and Brees are the paradigms (for this regime), so there are more ways than moving up to draft someone.

Brady stepped into a team that was built (much of it that very season, yes), and was being built, and is still being built.

Brady was better than Bledsoe, but it’s not like anybody knew it for sure until Drew was knocked out.

The Patriots really aren’t, ultimately, built around Brady; they’re built around the position being filled and what the position offers and its limitations. And yes, Brady should keep an eye over his shoulder, because they’ll be another QB on the horizon someday, he might not be as good as a younger Brady, but the plan would be to adjust accordingly.

The plan in Miami was to have a veteran, and then have Henne, or someone, unseat that veteran. But the veteran never happened. The first ones were…unsatisfying, and Pennington couldn’t stay healthy. So Henne was thrust into this thing before he ever had to earn it. And given the title of (ahem) starter.

In other words, instead of looking for a “franchise QB,” or hoping to “luck into a QB along the way,” a better approach might be to treat the QB position, as important as it is, just like every other position on the team. That is, the front office is always on the lookout to upgrade the QB position, just like every other position on the team, always, within the confines given.

And therein lays the conundrum. Do the Dolphins take the philosophic structure as is, or do they reboot, so to speak?

Taking it as is, the Dolphins might draft a QB whenever one presents itself, with the idea that they go to camp next year with Henne, Thigpen, and the rookie. Best man wins.

The reboot would be that they set the bar higher immediately, by bringing in a veteran, and then draft a QB whenever one presents itself, and go to camp with the vet, Henne and the rookie. Best man wins.

Or, they could do a lesser reboot, bring in a veteran upgrade, keep Henne to hopefully one day unseat him, and keep Thigpen to tutor.

Trading up to draft a QB is an option of course, but to trade J. Long, or V. Davis, or C. Wake? And S. Smith believe it or not is coming into that category too, and to throw in one of the Dolphins kickers to “sweeten” a deal? Because that’s what everyone wants. I understand, Luck looks great, but now it’s Carolina, and I don’t know.

Your idea earlier of trading future picks to move up, that might be something to consider, it’s very dangerous, but if Newton were to start sliding, maybe.

How about going to camp with Henne, Thigpen, Clausen?

# 2 and i'm also 44

People on this board have a tendency to take a simple question, with simple parameters, and making it complicated. Just answer the question. There are 500 other threads where you can get on your soapbox and preach.

Teams win championships, but QB's that make good decisions and minimize errors are critical

Trade "proven" players for a franchise QB? Who gets to ride in the time machine to the future to decide if this qb is going to qualify?

I vote...yours truly! And I promise I won't visit any sportsbooks when I get back.

Trade. 28.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

New QB. 45

North East Phinfan and Seadevil make sense to me.

I really don't like either approach. I'm 64.

Phinsfan, are you looking for age because you believe the younger one is the more in tune to todays game one will be?

I will vote with a little more definition.

1st question: Is the franchise QB a rookie or young veteran QB who is not known to be a franchise QB yet? (Luck, Kolb, Vince Young?) or is it Tom Brady, Peyton Manning or Drew Brees - true known quantity franchise QBs right now?

I don't think Indy would trade Manning right now. But, if they would take say our 1st rounder, Marshall, Davis and Ronnie Brown that's something I would consider.

2nd Q: can my 'hope you luck into' include simply using a 1st round pick (maybe around #12-#15) in 2011?

Regarding the first question? Do I get a proven commodity or am I taking my chances with an unproven commodity?

Without a real QB and an OC that still thinks we're playing with leather helmets. We're screwed!!!!

At this point I don't care what we give up, but enough is enough we need a damn QB! it's been way too long

I don't see anything wrong with the talent Henne has around him. Can we do some upgrading in certain positions of course we can, but that goes for every other team also. I guarantee with just an average QB, not even above average, just average this team is in the playoffs as we speak.

Henne has left so many plays on the field it's pathetic, We've been spinning our wheels for the last decade because nobody has been aggressive enough to go get a real QB.

Age 36

I chose focus on the rest of the team.

I know you requested ONLY that information, but I am providing more because I don't think the options are diametrically opposed, mutually exclusive or exhaustive.

I agree that QB is the most important player position to get right. I do not agree that the means of acquisition must be to trade what you have to in order to get him.

If they knew now what they did then, would the Pats (and any other sane team) have traded to #1 overall in 2000 to get Brady? Oakland had their choice of Roethlisraper and Rivers in 2004, and they took Gallery. Pittsburgh probably had a conviction about Roethlisberger, but they stayed at 11. Did they know for sure that JAX was going to take Reggie Williams? How strong was their conviction then? Would they have traded up 2 spots? Did the Phins have a conviction about Henne in 08? If ATL had such a conviction about Ryan, why didn't they offer to trade up with us to ensure they'd get him? How about Brees? He was a free agent, and only we and New Orleans really got in the race for him. He wasn't Kevin Kolb; he was a QB with one exceptional full season and another very good full season after having forgettable initial 2+ seasons.

How long do you stick with your conviction? For Henne, perhaps as little as 26 games started. Brees in 26 games? Disappointing, perhaps. Cassel - perhaps a great recent example of a team targeting a player and giving up what they had to (a 2nd rounder and they "had" to take Vrabel, too) - was midway through a horrible season in KC last year by his 26th start...and he was in his 5th season then.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2010 12:57PM by tsstamper.

Even in today's Hollywood NFL you must build the back bone of the team. OL & DL are crucial.

The QB position is the single most important position, no doubt about it, but the trenches are where games are first won and lost.

Option #2. But I would not call it lucking into a QB.