And no....we dont need to trade him. I am tired of trading our hard-working, over-achievers.

to trading Hartline.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I never said Hartline should be #4.
>
> Again, I like Hartline. I think he is the next Ed
> McCafferey.

You think he should be playing ahead of Marshall and/or Bess?

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And no....we dont need to trade him. I am tired of
> trading our hard-working, over-achievers.
>
> to trading Hartline.


See, it's a difficult situation. Individually, there is nothing wrong with Marshall (except for the selfishness), Bess, and Hartline. It's the collective. Hartline is the fastest of the three, at 4.55. That's tough to not have any speed at the WR position. And how do you consistently put someone out there to stretch the field and open things up if you keep everything status quo? My guess is that they won't do anything about it.

ghotirule Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I say you bring in any one of those guys if you
> can get them for next to nothing, V Young, Quinn,
> Lienart etc. Maybe the lite bulb clicks and we
> catch lightning in a bottle, or maybe we give him
> some weapons and it clicks with Henne.
>
> I'd take my chances with the light bulb going off
> with Henne before any of those others. Henne
> knows our system and has already proven himself as
> good or better than any of those other yahoos.
>
> If we're going to replace Henne, we need to
> replace him a a legit top shelf guy. Otherwise,
> we've got Henne as a caretaker.


Are you watching the games? Better than VY? While I am not a fan of Vince, just look at the stats. Then just watch the games. When your bad games outnumber your good, your not a good QB, period.

VY is awful. He has no leadership. He is immature, unstable, and not what I want in a QB.

Quote:

"You think he should be playing ahead of Marshall and/or Bess?"


&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
No not Marshall. But, the difference between these guys is that they are all different, and have different rolls.

Marshall- Best catching passes 5-20 yards, allowing him to utilize his ability to break tackles.

Hartline- Somehow always seems to get open deep. Best catching passes 15-30 yards.

Bess- Chain mover. Normally catches passes 5-10 yards.


So, all 3 have different rolls. I think with a better O-coordinator, these guys would be even better.

The only thing lacking in this group being really good is a straight line vertical deep threat.

This league is a passing league. You need 4 WR's.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Think a Jacoby Ford type in the draft, a speed guy that can return kicks and be brought along as a deep threat on certain downs.

That is all we need.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Marshall- Best catching passes 5-20 yards,
> allowing him to utilize his ability to break
> tackles.
Agreed. That makes him an excellent possession receiver.

> Bess- Chain mover. Normally catches passes 5-10
> yards.
Yep! He could be the best slot receiver in the league

>
> Hartline- Somehow always seems to get open deep.
> Best catching passes 15-30 yards.
I wouldn't say ALWAYS, but he's NOT well suited for the slot, and he's not as much of a mismatch as Marshall. So, that leaves a deep threat, of which he is average or below-average compared to other WRs in the league. So, that makes him a #4, NOT a #2.

I'll cast a vote for Hartline as well.

The kid is a player. Great 'tude. Excellent work habbits. Sneaky fast. Very good routes. Et cetera...

If we don't draft a QB in the first round I wouldn't mind Lienart brought in to challenge Henne.

I know what everyone will say, that he is no good he's a bust....well that's the fun in bringing in a player that hasn't met expectations, maybe he gets his career going in Miami, who knows, that's why these guys stick around for awhile getting 2nd and 3rd chances before they are truly given up on.

But I would really prefer to draft a QB in the 1st round just in case Henne is truly not the answer.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Breaks down to two philosophies.
One, do what ever it takes to bring the "elite" QB NOW. Even if we have to sell the farm to do it.

Two, keep building the team through draft and FA and bring in that second tier QB to compete with Henne.

Plan One: Let's say we get that elite QB. We would then have no team that can compete. No doubt it would take another 3 to 5 years to get there.

Plan two: We have the team and QB to compete for a division title next year. We get to the playoffs and anything can happen.

Which do you prefer? I think plan Two should be plan ONE!!

I like plan two as well. Only trade up to draft a QB, if:

one has fallen enough that it will not take the rest of the draft or a significant portion of next years draft to get him.

AND

the FO believes this guy will be the man and head the team for the next decade with at least the skills of a top ten QB.

If these two things aren't there then I would build the rest of the team and wait another year to find a QB in hopes that Henne will improve and be able to lead a solid team to the playoffs.

First of all we have not been doing this for the last 13 years. Second, the coach and GM we have had in the past pretty much stunk it up. Third we are closer now than many here might think.

Do you really think we can trade two #1s and get high enough? Do you really think that those top QBs talked about are that good? 50/50 chance you say. Well that is not nearly good enough for me.

I'll take a real team NOW and get to the playoffs at least. The "elite" QB can come later or maybe we won't need another through the draft.

The elite QB without the team is not the answer. You need both or at the very least, the team.

dolphin1423 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I like plan two as well. Only trade up to draft a
> QB, if:
>
> one has fallen enough that it will not take the
> rest of the draft or a significant portion of next
> years draft to get him.
>
> AND
>
> the FO believes this guy will be the man and head
> the team for the next decade with at least the
> skills of a top ten QB.
>
> If these two things aren't there then I would
> build the rest of the team and wait another year
> to find a QB in hopes that Henne will improve and
> be able to lead a solid team to the playoffs.

I don't think anyone is advocating trading up to get a QB just to get one. He's got to be worth it, someone that the FO thinks could be a franchise QB. Luck is that guy but we don't have the ammo to pull off the trade. Not sure if any of the others fit the bill, but if they do and they fall enough where a trade up is feasable, we should do it.

Berkeley would you trade this years and next years #1 for Luck? I don't know how good he is but would you take that kind of chance? Phinsfan says that it's proven that the best chance is 50/50 for a first round QB. I don't like those odds THIS YEAR.

We still really don't know what Henne will do with a new OC and better OL. We still don't know what we can get in trade or FA. Got to be a #2 out there that can play.

Phinsfan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Leon In Denver Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Got to be a #2 out
> > there that can play.
>
>
> Who?



Troy Smith came in and played well for an absolutely terrible 49ers offense despite the fact that he had only been on the team for about a week and didn't even know the playbook.

There are a few guys out there who can play ball that are buried on somebody's depth chart. Look at Colt McCoy. He was a third-string rookie that nobody expected anything out of, and he came in and played damn well against some tough defenses right off the bat.

Phinsfan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> (R/J)ay Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > Personally, I believe the team should do
> > everything it can to trade up and grab one of
> the
> > top QB prospects in the draft. But if that's
> not
> > possible, then someone with NFL experience is
> > needed to compete with Chad Henne. And
> > unfortunately, that someone is going to be a
> > backup.
>
> That's the way I'm looking at it as well.

Really? That's not what I've been hearing. This is exactly what I feel except I come out and say that I don't believe it's possible for us to trade up this year so go for building the team and get a good back up to compete.
I guess we can say we at least agree on this.

Leon In Denver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Berkeley would you trade this years and next years
> #1 for Luck? I don't know how good he is but would
> you take that kind of chance? Phinsfan says that
> it's proven that the best chance is 50/50 for a
> first round QB. I don't like those odds THIS
> YEAR.
>
> We still really don't know what Henne will do with
> a new OC and better OL. We still don't know what
> we can get in trade or FA. Got to be a #2 out
> there that can play.


in a heartbeat, yes. but it will take WAY more than that to get him. much more than we got