Does everyone realize Henne is 9th in completion percentage? 16th in yards and he has obviously missed 6 quarters. Lastly, this is his 2nd season as a starter and has had a garbage running game this year.

All I am trying to say is we need to stick with this guy, he deserves one more year, with a different OC and stable running game.

Thoughts?

Agree with everything.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Agreed

Quote:

"We need to take Shula's approach and build around Henne."


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That is why O-line should be #1 priority. We need to make sure the Henne (or any QB on our team for that matter) is not set up for failure.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Quote:
>
> "We need to take Shula's approach and build around
> Henne."
>
>
> &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
> That is why O-line should be #1 priority. We need
> to make sure the Henne (or any QB on our team for
> that matter) is not set up for failure.

That's been the matra for the last 3 years. It's all about the O-Line. Let's be more specific. What we really need is DEPTH at the O-Line. Either that or coaching that can condition these guys better so they don't get hurt. It doesn't matter how good your talent is if it's sitting on the bench.

Yes I"ve noticed that his completion % was great...now only "good" with his most recent few games being tough ones.

The interesting thing about it is that this stat is/was a huge arguing point for the folks who wanted Pennington to be the new starter, as Penny had the best % in history.

His yards per attempt is pretty respectable, too. The lack of TDs is in large part due to our inability to run the ball, particularly in the redzone. And another part of it is a lack of creative playcalling in the redzone.

You also have to look at his 11 INT, and how many of them have more than meets the eye.

#1- trailing by 8 points against the Jets, facing 4th down with 34 seconds left, forces a ball to Fasano. Not a good throw. But, in that situation, QBs force throws.

#2- late in the 4th quarter against the Pats, Brandon Marshall breaks off his route, hanging Henne out to dry with an INT.

#3- Early in the game against Green Bay. Marshall slips on the turf, and the defender undercuts him for the INT. If Marshall doesn't slip, the INT never happens.

#4- last offensive play of the game, Henne is hit as he throws, and James Harrison fields the ball on one hop. It is ruled an INT by the NFL later in the week. This INT never happened, but its on the stat sheet.

#5- late in the first half against Cincy. Henne underthrows Hartline deep over the middle. Now, this is on Henne. But, I want to point it out because it illustrates our poor offensive scheme. As one former Fins QB said, "when I look at the passing game, I don't know what Dan Henning is trying to accomplish." On this play, Marshall is triple covered, Bess is double covered, and Hartline is one on one. They are the only 3 players in the pattern. Going to Hartline is the right choice. But, his route goes deep middle from the right, and Marshall's route goes deep middle from the left. Both players wound up in the same 5-10 yard area. The result is that although Hartline was single covered, the way the routes were designed, he winds up being in the same area as the three defenders covering Marshall. The end result, 4 defenders covering 2 receivers.

#6- Early against Baltimore. Hartline falls down on a deep out, and it's intercepted. If he doesn't fall down, the INT does not happen.

#7- Late against Baltimore, down 2 TDs with 5 minutes left. Ball bounces off Marshall's hands to Ed Reed. The throw was high, and hot. But, Marshall was peeking at Ray Lewis as he came across the middle, and he didn't make much of an effort to elevate.

#8- Final offensive play against Baltimore down 16 points. Poor throw trying to force the ball to Bess. But, this is in desperation mode, and irrelevant to the game outcome.

#9- late in the first half against Tennessee, Henne throws a deep jump ball to Marshall, and it's intercepted. This is either a poor throw, or Marshall ran the wrong route. Henne threw the ball down the middle, and Marshall was starting to cut across to the far side. If you watch the highlight again, there is a defender underneath on the far side sneaking back into coverage on Marshall. Marshall may have read the play wrong, and thought the far side was open, so took his route that way. It would not be the first time that he has freelanced a route. We'll never know who was at fault on this one.

I'm fine with Henne, but he needs to learn/practice/study the following:


1. Touch Pass.
2. Audibles.
3. Look at more options before dump-off.

"#5- late in the first half against Cincy. Henne underthrows Hartline deep over the middle. Now, this is on Henne. But, I want to point it out because it illustrates our poor offensive scheme. As one former Fins QB said, "when I look at the passing game, I don't know what Dan Henning is trying to accomplish." On this play, Marshall is triple covered, Bess is double covered, and Hartline is one on one. They are the only 3 players in the pattern. Going to Hartline is the right choice. But, his route goes deep middle from the right, and Marshall's route goes deep middle from the left. Both players wound up in the same 5-10 yard area. The result is that although Hartline was single covered, the way the routes were designed, he winds up being in the same area as the three defenders covering Marshall. The end result, 4 defenders covering 2 receivers. "

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Thanks to the power of DVR I have been seeing this same thing. They use a 3 WR or 2 WR/1 TE set then balls are getting intercepted because of double and triple coverage.

It's easy to look at a stat sheet and make assumptions. This is one of the biggest reasons I'm for keeping Henne around. Despite the asinine calls Dan Henning makes, Henne still has us in games.

"#5- late in the first half against Cincy. Henne underthrows Hartline deep over the middle. Now, this is on Henne. But, I want to point it out because it illustrates our poor offensive scheme. As one former Fins QB said, "when I look at the passing game, I don't know what Dan Henning is trying to accomplish." On this play, Marshall is triple covered, Bess is double covered, and Hartline is one on one. They are the only 3 players in the pattern. Going to Hartline is the right choice. But, his route goes deep middle from the right, and Marshall's route goes deep middle from the left. Both players wound up in the same 5-10 yard area. The result is that although Hartline was single covered, the way the routes were designed, he winds up being in the same area as the three defenders covering Marshall. The end result, 4 defenders covering 2 receivers. "

In addition to this rediculousness, the lack creativity and proper play calls in the right situation has us where we are. I refuse to believe that these offensive studs are playing that poorly... Henning needs to go as of 8 games ago.

JC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes I"ve noticed that his completion % was
> great...now only "good" with his most recent few
> games being tough ones.
>
> The interesting thing about it is that this stat
> is/was a huge arguing point for the folks who
> wanted Pennington to be the new starter, as Penny
> had the best % in history.

This is not really accurate. Henne's last 4 games:
63.9%
64.9%
64.7%
67.9%

He's been improving his completion percentage over that time.

Great posts dolfanmark.

i have to laugh at how everyone was cruxifing the guy prior to him getting benched, i dont remember a SINGLE person taking up for him after he stunk it up against the ravens. Now after penni is out and thiggy stunk up the joint we are back on the henne wagon... LMAO, talk about the definition of a fan. Make up your mind. We are riding with thiggy and I would like to see him play atleast 3-5 more game to get a feel for what we will do at this position since we already know what we have in henne and I am not impressed.

Quote:

"i have to laugh at how everyone was cruxifing the guy prior to him getting benched, i dont remember a SINGLE person taking up for him after he stunk it up against the ravens. Now after penni is out and thiggy stunk up the joint we are back on the henne wagon... LMAO, talk about the definition of a fan. Make up your mind. We are riding with thiggy and I would like to see him play atleast 3-5 more game to get a feel for what we will do at this position since we already know what we have in henne and I am not impressed."


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What are you talking about???

There are numerous posters who have been very vocal and pro Henne.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Reppa, you're lost if you say there weren't people defending Henne on here, myself and numerous others have been waging a constant battle in support for Henne since day 1.

I for one am ecstatic to have read my first pro-Henne discussion thread in like 9 weeks. Usually its all negative and those of us who like a lot of what we've seen from Henne and support the idea of giving him a chance to continue developing get shouted down in threads that talk about how horrible he is. Thank you dres for contributing something positive about Henne's play and everyone else for their likeminded comments. It's refreshing

DolfanMark's last post clearly shows that Henne is still developing and getting better and must be allowed to continue. Yes he will make occasional mistakes.
Peyton Manning threw an interception Sunday that killed a possible game winning drive against the Patriots. Lucky for him he isn't a Dolphin QB.

dolfanmark Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is not really accurate. Henne's last 4
> games:
> 63.9%
> 64.9%
> 64.7%
> 67.9%
>
> He's been improving his completion percentage over
> that time.

whoops, you're right. I must have been thinking of his QB rating

yawn...

He is a pocket passer. This team is not good enough for a pocket passer. He doesn't have the quick release and yes he has good percentage of completions cause he is checking down. With a run game and line, that is all he has left. And the reason why we suck in the red zone is the fact that when we are on a short field, a check down gets blown up. If it isn't Bess catching the ball and making a play, it doesn't get done.

Bess: a good receiver in a small space.
Hartline: After a catch he can make some yardage, but usually needs space during the catch to do something with it.
Marshall: He needs to catch the ball first. I just can't say he has done a lot. It seems when he catches it, he plays hard with it, but doesn't seem to get far. And there is no spectacular long balls I can think of.
Backs: If thrown to our of the back, the go down with the first sign of contact. I can't remember the last time either one of those two broke an arm tackle.

Henne may be good, but I just don't see it. I feel he is all pocket passer and doesn't have the ass to tell guys to step up their game if they are playing like crap. If you have no line, you need to go to a spread offense and or screen game with fast backs. ie; cobbs or put Bess coming out of the backfield. And throw it long and early. Even if it is incomplete long or down the sideline, you pull the safeties back a bit and hopefully get a quick back matched against a linebacker.

From what I can see, Marshall has been much more of a disappointment this year than Henne. His drops and dumb penalties are mind boggling.

The ability to throw deep would help, but it only pulls the safeties back if there is a player that can get open deep. Since we really don't have that, opposing safeties are able to take away the intermediate routes. Henne has done a very good job of going to the open receiver considering that there is no one stretching the field and the running game has been bad.

Northeast Fin Fan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From what I can see, Marshall has been much more
> of a disappointment this year than Henne. His
> drops and dumb penalties are mind boggling.
>
Yes, but Marshall is a known commodity..a Pro Bowl WR. Henne hasn't quite proved himself yet. We desperately need a change in the offensive scheme if we want to keep Marshall. If he continues to get frustrated, we'll be stuck with a crybaby and a locker room cancer. If we can find a way to get him the ball in the best possible situation for him, we'll have one of the top 3 WRs in the league!! I'm not saying it's all on us, but the great WRs are almost always prima-donnas. The trick is to minimize the bad and maximize the good.

I would love to see the QB rip his ass for dropping a pass after putting the team in the hole for a personal foul. Anybody could give a person a pass if they are playing great and then make a mistake. But make mistakes and then drop passes that hit you right hand, COME ON!

Lets hope that whoever is in there gets it done and we start hitting a stride.

psalm462 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He is a pocket passer. This team is not good
> enough for a pocket passer. He doesn't have the
> quick release and yes he has good percentage of
> completions cause he is checking down. With a run
> game and line, that is all he has left. And the
> reason why we suck in the red zone is the fact
> that when we are on a short field, a check down
> gets blown up. If it isn't Bess catching the ball
> and making a play, it doesn't get done.

I find it interesting that no one criticizes Pennington for this. His entire career has been throwing checkdown passes of less than 10 yards because his arm does not allow him to do anything more than that. Go back to 2008 and look up how many of his passes were thrown less than 10 yards.

We should also point out that throwing the ball 10 yards or less is pretty much what our talent dictates. Davone Bess cannot get separation on downfield routes. He has way below average speed, and the only way he gets open is to run underneath routes, where he often gets zone coverage or coverage from LBs. Brandon Marshall is not a downfield receiver, and never has been. He averages 12 yards per catch for his career. When you factor in his YAC, that means that for his career, the passes thrown to him average less than 10 yards. He's not fast, either.

It should be noted that Henne's stats would be greatly helped if he did not have 17 dropped passes. 10 of those have come from Marshall and Hartline. And off the top of my head, one of those to Marshall would have been good for a 50 yard gain, and another to Hartline was one where he was wide open 25 yards downfield with room to run.

And a little bit more on all the talk about checkdowns. Henne is averaging 7.0 yards per attempt. That is exactly the same as Peyton Manning, and better than both Matt Ryan and Mark Sanchez.

So then what are we missing? Is it we just don't have good receivers or bad play calling: no screens, bunch formation, motion.

psalm462 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So then what are we missing? Is it we just don't
> have good receivers or bad play calling: no
> screens, bunch formation, motion.

It's about play calling. The injuries to the O-Line and slowed running game also hasn't helped, but we have good enough receivers to run a spread formation and have one of them get open. I, actually, see Marshall as a smallish TE rather than a typical WR. If we used him that way (the same way KC used to use Gonzalez) I think we'd have a lot more options in the passing game. Marshall could still be a pro-bowler, but it would open up the passing and running game for everyone else.

I feel we need to get creative again like we did with the Wildcat. Put Marshall of Bess coming out of the backfield. Just go crazy with the schemes!

i have always been a Henne supporter and as vocal as i can be for as little as im here in my support for him.

I would like to point out that now that were throwing real facts about his stats and why he is doing good, the Henne haters have seemingly disappeared.

And to the Henne haters, yes, thats me calling you all out. Where ya at?

"It's been fun to get the reaction of visiting coaches to the color of their locker room. Most don't notice it, but those that do are in trouble. . . . When I talk to an opposing coach before a game and he mentions the pink walls, I know I've got him. I can't recall a coach who has stirred up a fuss about the color and then beat us.” Hayden Fry