Yea I heard that one two. Looking at the video it's hard to fault Henne for that one.

Not sure what it means other than the fact they are putting heat on Henne to produce.

As I said after the game IMO Henne showed some signs of progressing after the NE game. My big issue is scoring TD's as opposed to 3 and out and kick a field goal.

Whatever it takes - we have to find a way to more productive on Offense with Henne running the show. And Henne is the main dude for accountability - but he's NOT responsible for WR's and/or RB's fumbling...

WOW, even welead hadn't even criticized Henne for that. But I'm sure he'll pile on sometime.

The throw was not great; but Hartline caught it and took about 6 steps before he fumbled. If the throw had been better Hartline may have gotten another couple of yards, but there is no way to put that fumble on anyone but Hartline.

BigNastyFish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As I said after the game IMO Henne showed some
> signs of progressing after the NE game. My big
> issue is scoring TD's as opposed to 3 and out and
> kick a field goal.
>

I won't put any blame on Henne for going 3 and out on the first two series of the game. Ultimately, settling for 6 points of those fumbles deep in the Pittsburgh end was what cost us most dearly in that game. Keep in mind that Pittsburgh has the league's best run defense. On the first series, we run Ronnie once for little or no gain. On 2nd down, we call a pass play that only has one player release into the pattern, Brandon Marshall. So, the only guy running a pass pattern is the one guy that you know is going to be doubled on every play (most likely with Polamalu, too). That play makes no sense, given their mantra about not turning the ball over. The whole premise of that play is that you expect Henne to throw the ball into double coverage in the red zone. So, unless there is a defensive breakdown, Henne has to throw it away, which is what happened. And counting on Dick Lebeau's defense to have a breakdown and leave Marshall open? Please. That's just dumb. And on 3rd down, Pittsburgh sends Lamarr Woodley on a blitz, where he is untouched and has a free shot at Henne. Henne throws his hot read, but Ronnie Brown does not run the hot route. That is a horrible series of play calls.

The second series was just as bad. First play, a Ricky run for 0 gain. On 2nd down, Ricky runs for 8 yards, so that's a nice play. This sets up a 3rd and 2. This gives the offense a lot of options. Instead, we line up in a power formation, and Ricky runs for no gain. Because we settled for a FG on the first series, we absolutely could not afford to settle for a FG on the second series. But, we didn't approach it that way. On 3rd and two, to think we are going to line up in a power formation and run it right down the Steelers' throat, the best run defense in the league, is just not smart football. Our running game has been lousy this season. We are having 3.8 yards per carry. It is not the strength of the team. And of all things, we tried to run it behind the right side. If we're going to run in that situation, at least run behind Jake Long to give yourself a chance. Or, if you are going to run, how about lining up with 3 WR to try to spread out the defense? At least give the impression you might pass. It was horrible, horrible playcalling. The coaches seem to believe we are a power running team, when we have yet to show that this season. And to try to force that issue against the Steelers, of all teams, is just stupid.

BigNastyFish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As I said after the game IMO Henne showed some
> signs of progressing after the NE game. My big
> issue is scoring TD's as opposed to 3 and out and
> kick a field goal.


RESPONSE: Explain how those three opportunities were Henne's fault. Example, did he kill the drive with interceptions (ohhhh, I guess not since we kicked field goals)? Did he overthrow receivers (ohhhh, I don't remember any overthrows, I remember throwing the ball away due to coverage but no overthrows in this game)? Did he call the rushing plays instead of trying to pass (oohhh, he doesn't call his own plays)?

Well thought out dolfanmark, I can't disagree on the facts...

A bad series of plays is always so obvious after the fact, yes? And sometimes even while the series is happening! Anyway, for whatever reason, coaching, play calling, the lack of confidence in our passing game, and of course Pitts D, we laid eggs on those possessions.

It’s fair to say that Pitts D overmatched us at that point – even though we had great field position. Our lack of scoring a TD basically decided the game…

You also saw this on the final 2-minute drill. Number one, we started with a draw play. Sometimes this catches a defense off guard. But, go look at our tendencies. You will find that we often call draw plays on 1st down in the 2 minute drill. We do it so often that it doesn't surprise anyone.

Number two, look at how we chose to attack the Pittsburgh defense. There are two schools of thought on how you deal with a hard blitzing team like the Steelers in that situation. One is to keep two guys in to block, go max protect, and try to get it done with 3 WR. The other is go with 5 wide, and force them to cover more guys, meaning fewer potential blitzers, and more one on one matchups if they do choose to blitz. We went with the former, keeping Ronnie and Polite in the game to pick up any blitzers. This is the conservative way to do it. This is what Jimmy Johnson liked to do. Don Shula did not do this. He would go to the 5 WR set.

If you send out 5 guys, they can only rush 6. And if they rush 6, that means one on one matchups everywhere, and as long as you block up the middle, the QB should have time to complete something big. Now, realistically, no defense is going to take that chance very often. So, more often than not, the defense will rush 5, at most. And you have 5 blockers. If they all do their jobs, you have one WR being doubled, and 4 guys getting single coverage. If they only rush 4, you likely have 3 guys getting single coverage. When you go with the conservative approach, keeping 2 guys into block, it makes it easy for a great pass rushing defense. Pittsburgh can still cause problems by just rushing 4, because their guys are so good at it. That leaves them 7 guys to cover your 3 WR. And if your 3 WR aren't burners, it makes it even easier for them because they don't worry too much about getting beat deep. It's a stubborn approach of thinking, "we are going to execute what we do, and if we do it perfectly, we'll be fine."

In that situation, get 5 guys into the pattern, and get 2 of them taking deep routes, that way you spread the defense and give your QB a chance. Marshall is a great player, and so is Bess. But, neither is fast. And Hartline is merely average, at best, with below average speed. By only sending out those 3 guys, it makes it too easy for Pittsburgh to cover them with 6 or 7 guys focusing on underneath routes. Line up Wallace and Brown at WR. Send Hartline and Wallace deep on every play to clear up space, and maybe one of them can actually get behind someone. You can't tell me the Steelers are going to choose double either one of them with Bess and Marshall out there. Then, have Marshall, Bess, and Brown working 3 different areas of the field underneath. You feed the ball to the guy who gets open quickest, and maybe they break a tackle and make a big play. And you do this until they overcommit on the underneath stuff, and then maybe you can stick a couple of 15-20 yard completions in there.

How they approached it is not smart. It is that mentality of "we are going to win by doing what we do" as opposed to the idea of "we are going to do whatever it takes to win this game, even if it means changing our style."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/28/2010 06:44PM by dolfanmark.

dolfanmark, this is where I would diverge with you a bit. 4 or 5 wide puts a high premium on the QB executing at a high-level, reading coverage, making fast decisions (including site adjustments), and delivering the ball fast and accurately. From what I’ve seen of Henne I don’t think he’s got that skill set right now. In fact (IMO) it would play right into his weakness, which is probably the reason (more so than a fundamental conservative philosophy to Offense in general) why we played it with max protect etc.

The other point is, right now based on personnel and our inability to create big plays, we’re not a team that’s proficient at pulling out game winning drives. Our “formula” for winning goes something like this:

We need to play ball control, eat up clock, have balance running and passing, avoid mistakes and penalties, play solid D, tackle on ST and make the field position game work for us. Like it or not, we don’t have a Marino who can take a game over, go 4 or 5 wide, and push the team to victory. But not many teams do. Only a few, and they tend to be the ones at the top.

Just my opinion...

mark break down into paragraphs.....Very hard to read like that....I say this because i always read your comments. They are always a good read.

EDIT....>Outstanding Mark.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2010 05:34AM by samsam3738.

Ditto what samsam said.

BNF - that was my reaction initially as well. I'm watching a lot of replays on NFL network, and one thing that stands out is how long it seems to take Henne to get back, read the field and get rid of the ball. I attribute this to maturity, and I think he will get better on his end. However, it is frustrating to see guys who have had a chance to do this for several seasons in a row recognize things up front then read & throw.

However, here's a different take on it. With that many receivers going into patterns, he may not need to even actually scan everything before making a decision. With so much going on that the D has to worry about, it makes sense to me that he could concentrate on a zone and pick the open receiver (i.e. two receivers left...pick the open one, while 3 receivers n the right essentially distract/occupy defenders and don't get a look).

Don't get me wrong - I hate that this leaves yards on the field, but it could be a stepping stone. It is clear that he has to get better at pre-snap read and going through his progressions more quickly.

BTW mark we should had never ran the ball on the two minute drill...And against pittburgh. Big mistake. I was going what the hell...I know there is a lot of people calling for hennings head....And im not one of them. But sometimes his play calls leave a lot to be desired.

I know if it works perfecct beautifull ronnie runs for 20 yards....But we have to go with the odds....What are the odds of running the football on the 2 minute drill against probably the best run defense in football.

We didnt run the ball on pittsburgh all day. Why was in the two minute drill going to be any different.

Henne is going to get one of our receiver hurt, he just can't deliver the ball in the right place at the right time. Don't worry when a receiver goes down you can blame the lack of receivers for Henne's poor play.

anyone read armondo's post in the herald today where sporano was trying to justify rushing for less than 4 yards a carry and claiming that this is just fine? really weak, I am beginning to have my doubts about the caliber of coach he is

I heard that in Sparano's press conf -- he was saying 4 yards (3.8) was a "positive play." I don't recall him saying it was "just fine," as in that's where their expectations are.

the problem is he thinks 3.8 yards per carry is a positive play, it's not, it below average. the point is that instead of trying to defend the status quo, he should be challenging the team to do better

3.8 yards is positive in that if you get that on every play starting with 1st and 10 then you can march down the field.

That's probably what he meant. He's trying to be positive about the team, unlike about 75% of the fans, apparently. We also don't know what he's saying to the team behind closed doors. Shula used to turn on the charm in front of the press, never lost his cool with reporters. Then he had no problem screaming , F-bombs included, at the players (and staff) when he deemed it appropriate.

As for blaming the fumble on Henne, the quote as I read it puts *part* of the blame on him. Which is still wrong IMO because I agree that it was Hartline's fault. But the headline of this thread implies he put *all* the blame on Henne, which he did not. The only people who blame *everything* that goes wrong on Henne are certain types of fans, several of whom post on here regularly.

Welead Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Henne is going to get one of our receiver hurt, he
> just can't deliver the ball in the right place at
> the right time. Don't worry when a receiver goes
> down you can blame the lack of receivers for
> Henne's poor play.


If anyone doubts this man has zero to say, take a glance at his posts via clicking his profile name. It's stupid. Every single post is about how Henne sucks. Welead, did Henne kill your kittens as a child? Did he kick your dads ass at a gas station or something? You should really see someone about your obsessive hate of Henne.

No I think it's just that Henne has been givin alot of oppertunities to take this team on his back and deliver but has failed alot not all the time but not up to snuff.

Henne has a awsome arm, and looks mean and rugged its like the man has all the physical tools, just unlock the MOJO and go go.

Thats why I think Welead is so pissed, because its again like watching a caged tiger beggin to become free.

And if that's the case that's on Sparano and Henning, not Henne. No, Welead is just a pissed off forum TROLL. Sorry Mia1.

Odenn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
No, Welead is just a pissed
> off forum TROLL.


Exactly.

No actually I'm more of a fan than you two with your personal attacks. Henne is the problem with this team, at the beginning of the season the owner set the bar high because the pieces are in place for a serious
Super Bowl run yet some fans here like you two seem to be happy with watching Henne "develop" and wait it out while we have a much more capable QB that would light up the scoreboard with Marshall. You two don't get football, do you?

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2010 01:15PM by samsam3738.

Hey, berkeley223, maybe he was taking flak for his superiors Henning and crew? Think so? I can't believe that he would genuinely think there was any reason to be satisfied with our running game against Pittsburgh.

Imagine how they feel....

Pittsburgh ran for fewer yards than the phins.

Pittsburgh 58 yards rushing
Miami 64 Yards rushing


This team is seriouly becoming very good against the run. Maybe its due to soliai, starks and company getting to the next level.

It would be pathetic for ANY OF US to invest time here that was not a "fan."

Some just see things differently, not the end of the wOrld.

"I LOVE EVERYBODY!" ((except the Jets and Pats)))