It's just more anger and frustration about that last game going into the bye week. I'm tired of it already...

And I don't think you can't psychoanalyze it like that. Saying we lucked into anything is silly. We got what we got...do you think Pennington would have still come to Miami if we had a different coaching staff?

You put yourself in a position to succeed and sometimes good things happen. That's all you can do.

Parcells came here to lay the groundwork for turning around a franchise that was tanking fast. Guys...we were 1-15...save for a miraculous catch in OT versus Baltimore we'd have been the first 0-16 team in league history.

Does ANYBODY remember that? Does ANYBODY remember the state of this franchise just 3 years ago?

yes I do remember but the falcons sucked as bad as us at the same point, lost out on parcells, brought in different people and now they are looking like a contender
and yes I think pennington would have come here regardless so he could stick it to the jets for cutting him

Yes I do remember the 1-15 season...however Dan Le Batard is right in his article...Parcells was brought in to do a job and it isn't done yet. He should be tarred an feathered for it.

I'm not upset that the job isn't done yet, I'm upset that we don't look nearly as good as we should 3 years into this, and in fact we may be regressing

I just don't think I can overstate this:

It's week 5. We have 12 more games to play. You're not angsty teenagers...

Sorry not even worth responding, if this is truly what you believe. Just to jar some memories, How about undrafted FA Davon Bess or even Cameron Wake...Kendall Langford... that is enough you get the point

ok bess wake langford, that's 3 but don't act like you can name many more. wake is a great signing, but out of 3 drafts there really is only langford, vonte, jake long, maybe chad henne and maybe steve smith. considering we had the #1 pick in one of those drafts and the number #12 in another, that's not so great.
look I am not saying we are not better off than when cammoron was the coach but should that be the standard? considering we were the worst team in the league and brought in people who were supposed to deliver championships?
this is not being an "angsty teenager," just pointing out some reality and posting some opinion on a phins message board on a bye week

What teams don't bring in guys who are supposed to deliver championships???

I REALLY don't understand what you're trying to get at.

What about:

Randy Starks
Lousaka Polite
Jared Odrick
Koa Misi
Anthony Fasano
Dan Carpenter
Richie Incognito
John Jerry

montequi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What about:
>
> Randy Starks
> Lousaka Polite
> Jared Odrick
> Koa Misi
> Anthony Fasano
> Dan Carpenter
> Richie Incognito
> John Jerry


Starks=great player
Polite= good player
Odrick=who knows
Misi=who knows but it doesn't seem like he's got a very high ceiling
Fasano=meh
Carpenter=he's a kicker, he's been good but let's not get carried away
Incognito=have heard nothing good about him, or seen it either
Jerry=too soon to tell

So I will add Starks to the list of "hits." But so many "misses" I can't say they've done a great job overall, can you really disagree?

TheFutt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What teams don't bring in guys who are supposed to
> deliver championships???
>
> I REALLY don't understand what you're trying to
> get at.

Futt, you seem to be filling the MikeO role here. Of course no one hires anyone not wanting championships in return, but Parcells isn't "anyone." He was given complete authority to do whatever he wanted under contractual terms no one ever got before (here's some money, you can do work or not? wtf is that?) The bar is higher with him than with, say, the guys the falcons hired, or the bills with chan gailey.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> montequi Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What about:
> >
> > Randy Starks
> > Lousaka Polite
> > Jared Odrick
> > Koa Misi
> > Anthony Fasano
> > Dan Carpenter
> > Richie Incognito
> > John Jerry
>
>
> Starks=great player
> Polite= good player
> Odrick=who knows
> Misi=who knows but it doesn't seem like he's got a
> very high ceiling
> Fasano=meh
> Carpenter=he's a kicker, he's been good but let's
> not get carried away
> Incognito=have heard nothing good about him, or
> seen it either
> Jerry=too soon to tell
>
> So I will add Starks to the list of "hits." But so
> many "misses" I can't say they've done a great job
> overall, can you really disagree?

I think you HAVE to add Polite. He's automatic from 1-2 yards. How many fullbacks in the league can give you that kind of consistency.

I'll admit it's too early to judge the rookies this year.

BTW: I forget to include Cameron Wake.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/10/2010 12:13PM by montequi.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> montequi Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What about:
> >
> > Randy Starks
> > Lousaka Polite
> > Jared Odrick
> > Koa Misi
> > Anthony Fasano
> > Dan Carpenter
> > Richie Incognito
> > John Jerry
>
>
> Starks=great player
> Polite= good player
> Odrick=who knows
> Misi=who knows but it doesn't seem like he's got a
> very high ceiling
> Fasano=meh
> Carpenter=he's a kicker, he's been good but let's
> not get carried away
> Incognito=have heard nothing good about him, or
> seen it either
> Jerry=too soon to tell
>
> So I will add Starks to the list of "hits." But so
> many "misses" I can't say they've done a great job
> overall, can you really disagree?

Really I am not sure what you are comparing our recent drafts and free agent pick ups to. Please give me an example of a team that has done a great job overall in draft and acquisitions in the same 2 years. obvioulsy 4 games into this season you can't dis or claim any of this years draft picks. Personally I think they have done a superb job of building a core of great young players. Is the team clicking on every level at this point, NO, but they are close and when they do, it is going to be for a while!

Berk, I agree with you completely. That's an accurate article. Some of the free agent signings that Parcells has had here is just mind blowing. Gibril Wilson, Ernest Wilford, Eric Green....The second round pick which was wasted on Pat White was laughable.

Berk you have to keep in mind that the same people who call you out on here are the same ones who blindly supported Cam and Mueller and thought that John Beck and Ted Ginn were the next coming of Montana and Rice.

Don't compare me to that ass-clown, MikeO. It's hard enough to bite my tongue while reading his idiocy over on the FF message boards...anyway...

I'm really not trying to be obnoxious with my questioning (for once).

I'm asking you, what team brings in a guy and doesn't expect them to deliver a championship? If you can name one, then I only have pity for their city and their fans. Nobody wants to have a losing team. Everybody wants to have a championship team. It's why they play the game!

To win a championship soooo many pieces have to fall into place. You need the coaching, the players, the calls to go your way, freak plays go your way, the other teams to beat themselves on your bad days, you need to account for injuries, etc etc etc.

EXPECTING a championship just because we bring in a guy who is good at building good teams is being delusional. You can build a great team but sh*t will still happen. You'll still have bad games.

The other thing is, there isn't some super-coach out there. There's no magic spell that even the BEST coached teams have that makes them instant-winners week in and week out.

Besides...Parcells was brought here to turn around a 1-15 team.

He did that.

I'll keep saying it again and again because I just don't understand why everybody is shouting gloom and doom already, but...

THERE ARE 12 GAMES LEFT...

Don't panic...

Hokie Phin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Berk, I agree with you completely. That's an
> accurate article. Some of the free agent signings
> that Parcells has had here is just mind blowing.
> Gibril Wilson, Ernest Wilford, Eric Green....The
> second round pick which was wasted on Pat White
> was laughable.
>
> Berk you have to keep in mind that the same people
> who call you out on here are the same ones who
> blindly supported Cam and Mueller and thought that
> John Beck and Ted Ginn were the next coming of
> Montana and Rice.


I dont think anyone blindly followed Mueller or Cam, they were booed nonstop. I am not sure you were even paying attention during those times if you do not realize that. Please can you give me an example of a team that has done a great job in the past 3 years in drafts and fa pick ups. I am just trying to understand what to judge our team by.

To say Parcells has done a poor job, and you cant compare it to anything doesnt make much of a point. It is just taking a shot to take a shot, nothing is gained, if people cant understand what he is comparing the regime to..

For instance if you say our drafts compared to the jets or the Saints or Dallas or colts or whoever then we can compare and contrast and make a judgment on it..

We were 1-15 when he took over the team and the team needed to be completely overhauled. That means you have to pick up multiple players at every position and there is only so much you cant do in 2-3 years. There are only so many good players that are going to pan out, that still means you have to take chances with the options you have.
Honestly, I am not sure you really understand much about bulding a football team, and I am probably wasting my typing, never mind

Crowder without looking at every team's roster I'm not sure I can give you a great answer to your question of a team that has nailed both the FA and draft the past few years. However I like probably you and most on here obsessively follow this team, so I can confidently say the misses have outweighed the hits. It's just unacceptble to so obviously blow high draft picks like pat white, pat turner, shawn murphy, etc, and expensive FAs like wilford, wilson, grove (and to a lesser extent Green, and Smiley).

Off the top of my head I'd say the Falcons the past few years have done better than us getting Ryan in the draft and Turner in FA. But the proof is in the pudding and I'd say they are a better team than we are now. I compare us to them b/c they sucked as bad as us 3 years ago, and brought in a new front office and coach at the same time. 3 years of having high draft picks and lots of $$ to spend, and we are looking like a .500 team, 3d play in the AFC East. Not what I think anyone was expecting.

TheFutt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don't compare me to that ass-clown, MikeO. It's
> hard enough to bite my tongue while reading his
> idiocy over on the FF message boards...anyway...
>
> I'm really not trying to be obnoxious with my
> questioning (for once).
>
> I'm asking you, what team brings in a guy and
> doesn't expect them to deliver a championship? If
> you can name one, then I only have pity for their
> city and their fans. Nobody wants to have a
> losing team. Everybody wants to have a
> championship team. It's why they play the game!


Futt your question is irrelevent. EVERY team brings in a new reigime hoping to bring a championship. But few have the pedigree or expections of Parcells, and have been paid and given the power he has been, and he has not delivered and not been called to account for it. However, I'd say the Bills by brining in Chan G and whatever loser is their GM---I doubt even their FO thinks that will bring them a title, certainly not their fans....
>
> To win a championship soooo many pieces have to
> fall into place. You need the coaching, the
> players, the calls to go your way, freak plays go
> your way, the other teams to beat themselves on
> your bad days, you need to account for injuries,
> etc etc etc.
>
> EXPECTING a championship just because we bring in
> a guy who is good at building good teams is being
> delusional. You can build a great team but sh*t
> will still happen. You'll still have bad games.
>
> The other thing is, there isn't some super-coach
> out there. There's no magic spell that even the
> BEST coached teams have that makes them
> instant-winners week in and week out.
>
> Besides...Parcells was brought here to turn around
> a 1-15 team.
>
> He did that.
>
> I'll keep saying it again and again because I just
> don't understand why everybody is shouting gloom
> and doom already, but...
>
> THERE ARE 12 GAMES LEFT...
>
> Don't panic...

I think Crowder is on to something here. I mean let's compare apples to apples and look at what other teams have done...

My question is FAR from irrelevant...how can you say that? You have 32 teams bringing in top coaching talent and you think that there's one guy who is consistently going to sit on top of the mountain? So you fall back on "expectations" but who builds them up? Media...ill-informed "experts"...fans that follow the game on Sundays and play Fantasy Football?

Yes, bringing in a guy with pedigree increases your chances IN THEORY, but it isn't a guarantee by a longshot.

I'm done here. You have your own opinions and we just don't agree and that's fine...I'm not here to change your mind, but I've made my case.

Cheers!

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Crowder without looking at every team's roster I'm
> not sure I can give you a great answer to your
> question of a team that has nailed both the FA and
> draft the past few years. However I like probably
> you and most on here obsessively follow this team,
> so I can confidently say the misses have
> outweighed the hits. It's just unacceptble to so
> obviously blow high draft picks like pat white,
> pat turner, shawn murphy, etc, and expensive FAs
> like wilford, wilson, grove (and to a lesser
> extent Green, and Smiley).
>
> Off the top of my head I'd say the Falcons the
> past few years have done better than us getting
> Ryan in the draft and Turner in FA. But the proof
> is in the pudding and I'd say they are a better
> team than we are now. I compare us to them b/c
> they sucked as bad as us 3 years ago, and brought
> in a new front office and coach at the same time.
> 3 years of having high draft picks and lots of $$
> to spend, and we are looking like a .500 team, 3d
> play in the AFC East. Not what I think anyone was
> expecting.


Ok, now we cant talk about something. I like the falcons as your choice because both teams were in similar positions when three years ago.
2008
1 Matt Ryan Boston College
1 Sam Baker USC
2 Curtis Lofton Oklahoma
3 Chevis Jackson Louisiana State
3 Harry Douglas Louisville
3 Thomas DeCoud California
5 Robert James Arizona State
5 Kroy Biermann Montana
6 Thomas Brown Georgia
7 Wilrey Fontenot Arizona
7 Keith Zinger Louisiana State

2009
1 Peria Jerry Mississippi
2 William Moore Missouri
3 Christopher Owens San Jose State
4 Lawrence Sidbury Jr. Richmond
5 William Middleton Furman
5 Garrett Reynolds North Carolina
6 Spencer Adkins Miami
7 Vance Walker Georgia Tech

2010
1 Sean Weatherspoon Missouri
3 Corey Peters Kentucky
3 Mike Johnson Alabama
4 Joe Hawley UNLV
5 Dominique Franks Oklahoma
5 Kerry Meier Kansas
6 Shann Schillinger Montana

2008
1 Jake Long Michigan
2 Phillip Merling Clemson
2 Chad Henne Michigan
3 Kendall Langford Hampton
4 Shawn Murphy Utah State
6 Jalen Parmele Toledo
6 Donald Thomas Connecticut
6 Lex Hilliard Montana
7 Lionel Dotson Arizona

2009
1 Vontae Davis Illinois
2 Pat White West Virginia
2 Sean Smith Utah
3 Patrick Turner Southern Cal
4 Brian Hartline Ohio State
5 John Nalbone Monmouth (NJ)
5 Chris Clemons Clemson
6 Andrew Gardner Georgia Tech
7 J.D. Folsom Weber State

2010
1 Jared Odrick Penn State
2 Koa Misi Utah
3 John Jerry Ole Miss
4 A.J. Edds Iowa
5 Nolan Carroll Maryland
5 Reshad Jones Georgia
7 Chris McCoy Middle Tennessee
7 Austin Spitler Ohio State

actually, Gonzales was a trade not a FA. But you make good points, on paper it doesn't seem like the Falcons have drafted that much better than us. But they do look a like a better and more promising team than us this year---however they play in much weaker division so that could have something to do with that.

TheFutt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My question is FAR from irrelevant...how can you
> say that? You have 32 teams bringing in top
> coaching talent and you think that there's one guy
> who is consistently going to sit on top of the
> mountain? So you fall back on "expectations" but
> who builds them up? Media...ill-informed
> "experts"...fans that follow the game on Sundays
> and play Fantasy Football?
>
> Yes, bringing in a guy with pedigree increases
> your chances IN THEORY, but it isn't a guarantee
> by a longshot.
>
> I'm done here. You have your own opinions and we
> just don't agree and that's fine...I'm not here to
> change your mind, but I've made my case.
>
> Cheers!
>

I am saying it is irrelvant b/c the fact that all teams try to win the championship has nothing to do with how THIS team has done and how well the FO has done. It's like a little kid saying to you, "oh like you could do better" when you complain about a pro RB fumbling the ball on the goal line.

You're right Crowder, I don't know much about building a football team. I design buildings and roadways for a living, so please excuse me.

And to answer you're question of what teams have done a better job over the past few years in the draft and free agency, without going through each team in the league, a couple come to mind; The Falcons which have already been mentioned, and the Chiefs. Off the top of my head I know the Chiefs drafts have included - Eric Berry, Brandon Flowers, Glenn Dorsey, Jamal Charles, Dwayne Bowe, Tyson Jackson and Dexter McCluster. Free agents- Matt Cassel, Thomas Jones, Chris Chambers.

Not a bad list of talent right there and I'm sure you can google their draft classes and find more. Like you said Crowder, I don't know much about building a football team, but I do think Kansas City might be doing a pretty decent job of putting a team together.