This is pathetic. Any of us could have had better luck. Just shows the nepotism in pro sports. Parcells is runnng before fans string him up. You can add Carpenter


Grove thus becomes the Dolphins' latest expensive mistake. In three years under Parcells, Ireland and Sparano, the Dolphins have spent $42 million on six players who combined to start only 27 games: Grove, safety Gibril Wilson ($8 million), linebacker Reggie Torbor ($8 million), receiver Ernest Wilford ($6 million), cornerback Eric Green ($3 million) and quarterback Josh McCown ($2.5 million).

They also recently cut two expensive second-year players: Pat White ($2.4 million) and Patrick Turner ($1.1 million).

These are new and exciting points you bring up. We haven't discussed this at all yet on this board, I am so happy you thought to make this a topic of discussion.

LOL FUtt

Yeah check the other, hmmmm 3 4 post??

LOL!

Most of the previous regimes would have kept these players on teh team to keep from looking like idiots whiffing on these choices. At elast this regime has the guts to cut their losses, and keep better talent.

BobT Wrote:
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> Most of the previous regimes would have kept these
> players on teh team to keep from looking like
> idiots whiffing on these choices. At elast this
> regime has the guts to cut their losses, and keep
> better talent.

Yup. These guys don't care what anyone thinks. Some don't like that. Some will call for the regimess heads before things play out. I think what they are doing is the right thing.

You don't think the Patriots have had a lot of busted draft pick and FA? Think again. Look at the Pats in an interval during their Superbowl Years:

Bethel Johnson, 2003, 46th overall (Next WR picked in draft was Bouldin)
Marques Hill - 2004, 63rd overall
Guss Scott, 2004, 95th overall
Chad Jackson, 2006, 34th overall
David Thomas, 2006, 86th overall (Cut by Patriots)

5 high draft picks that were cut in 3 years. And I'm not even counting players that never played up to thier potential like Maroney.

Even with a miserable track record in the second and third rounds, somehow, the Patriots are perennial favorites to win the Super Bowl.

Yet some of you want to bash this FO because they want to get rid of ONE second and ONE third round pick that never panned out.

The reason why good teams are good is that they cut losses quick and move on.

true, but it was much harder to make the pats coming off their sb years than to make this team, so the pats cutting a second rounder is not quite the same as this team cutting second and third rounders just 1 year after drafting them

The good teams don't have too many loses so they aren't in this situation. It's like the FO should get credit for cutting a bad player. A bad player they drafted too high, overpaid for, and totally screwed up in signing or bringingv here to begin with. Ignore that fact that they missed on the player, but don't ignore the fact they did good by getting rid of him. Please.

Also the Pats comparison is silly. New England won 3 Super Bowls in one decade. That's 1/3......they could F' up for the next decade and those fans wouldn't be happy but they wouldn't be that upset either.

And NOBODY...NOBODY is calling for this regimes head before things play out. Everyone is saying if they have another bad year and you combine that with the front office screw ups which are now very many, then its time for a change. These guys aren't Supreme Court Judges they don't have jobs for life. RESULTS MATTER in the NFL!!!

jlyell13 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Grove thus becomes the Dolphins' latest expensive
> mistake. In three years under Parcells, Ireland
> and Sparano, the Dolphins have spent $42 million
> on six players who combined to start only 27
> games: Grove, safety Gibril Wilson ($8 million),
> linebacker Reggie Torbor ($8 million), receiver
> Ernest Wilford ($6 million), cornerback Eric Green
> ($3 million) and quarterback Josh McCown ($2.5
> million).
>

For a couple of those players you are confusing not being on the team with "BUST"

Calling Josh McCown a bust is just ridiculous. When signed, the FO didn't know Pennington was available. And the team preferred to keep Henne on the roster (I wonder why....).

Torbor was signed before we got Ayodele in a trade. Once again, we needed an ILB. Torbor started a lot of games as the backup for Ayodele and Crowder. Paying an $8M bonus over 3 years to a backup LB who can produce at 2 positions is not a "BUST", and the reason he was cut has to do with Dobbins and

Wilson was a starter for gods sake. Did he suck in our system? Yes. But he started, and was the best player available at the time. The FO feels it upgraded and so let him go.

Green, and Wilford were FA busts. But they were gone after one season (or earlier).

Can Grove be considered a FA bust? He started a lot of games, but was just injured.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> true, but it was much harder to make the pats
> coming off their sb years than to make this team,
> so the pats cutting a second rounder is not quite
> the same as this team cutting second and third
> rounders just 1 year after drafting them

Oh please. Tell me one of those players that is considered "good" on any team.

MikeO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> And NOBODY...NOBODY is calling for this regimes
> head before things play out.

Apparently you haven't read some of the threads on this board. Yes, there are people already calling for this regime's head. Which is nut, considering what they have done in such a short time.

DolfanMike Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Can Grove be considered a FA bust? He started a
> lot of games, but was just injured.


He started 10 games for the Miami Dolphins. That's "a lot"??

DolfanMike Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MikeO Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > And NOBODY...NOBODY is calling for this regimes
> > head before things play out.
>
> Apparently you haven't read some of the threads on
> this board. Yes, there are people already calling
> for this regime's head. Which is nut, considering
> what they have done in such a short time.


Anyone calling for their heads now before the season is stupid. I mean, give them the season, they made the bed let them lie in. If we have a good to great year, then obviously they stay and everyone here who badmouthed them eats crow. If they have an equal or lesser record than last year, then the thought of cleaning house is very real and should be entertained.

MikeO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Anyone calling for their heads now before the
> season is stupid.

Not that I want to call anyone stupid, but I agree 100%.

Of course he is a FA bust. We gave the guy $14.5 mill for only 10 starts. That is a bust.

But would he have helped us win games by being on our roster as a backup. YES. Is he better than the alternative; Procter. YES. so cutting him is silly. And it wasn't like Berger beat him out in camp by a lot. It went down to the final days of camp.

He is a 100% bust and the Dolphins put money over winning by letting him go. They don't pass out rings for being in good standing with the salary cap

MikeO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> And NOBODY...NOBODY is calling for this regimes
> head before things play out. Everyone is saying if
> they have another bad year and you combine that
> with the front office screw ups which are now very
> many, then its time for a change.

I'm not sure the screw ups are many.

If you want to look at a lot of screw up, look at the Bills, Rams, Lions of the past 10 years, or Dolphins under Saban and Cam and Wanny/Speilman, or look at the Jets in the next couple of years.

The point I'm illustrating with the Patriot analysis is that our screw ups have been an average number (BTW - attempts to dismiss the Patriots screw ups while they are still the perennial favorites for a tough division are HILARIOUS).

The BIG difference between us and a lot of regimes is that we admit our mistakes and move on. The Patriots do that to. Now this give a lot of ammo to the sewing circles of arm-chair GMs that can do nothing more than criticize. But this regime doesn't GAS. Kudos to them for being honest and tough.

MikeO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Of course he is a FA bust. We gave the guy $14.5
> mill for only 10 starts. That is a bust.
>
> But would he have helped us win games by being on
> our roster as a backup. YES. Is he better than the
> alternative; Procter. YES. so cutting him is
> silly. And it wasn't like Berger beat him out in
> camp by a lot. It went down to the final days of
> camp.
>
> He is a 100% bust and the Dolphins put money over
> winning by letting him go. They don't pass out
> rings for being in good standing with the salary
> cap

No, this was a smart move. You can't have a backup that is a constant injury risk. And next year he would be sitting on the bench burning cap space that could be used on a starter.

IMO, the FO has made a skillful move. Take the cap hits this year on players that aren't worth and, and next year clean up in FA. I like it!

But you forget about the owner. The guy writing the checks. The guy who paid $14.5 mill to Grove for only 10 games.

Ireland/Parcells will have to answer for that. Same for Gabril. Same for Pat White, Turner..etc.

Ross would have a valid point saying, you blow my money on bad players. Then cut him. And the team isn't improving in the standings. And Ross is supposed to keep them around?? It's his money at the end of the day. I am sure he doesn't like to see it spent foolishly.

MikeO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is no cap hit because there is NO salary cap

Yes, that is the point. If you cut them this year, there is no Cap hit. If you cut them next year, there is. A cut next year would be a $6M hit.

Great Move!

Well, the "great move" would have not signing him to begin with and wasting $14.5 mill for 10 games. Spend that money on someone else who could have helped us last year and this year. That's the great move.

Cutting him is admitting a mistake of a an unfortunate free agent bust signing by our our organization.

I think that is where half the board sees thing one way and the other half sees it another.

MikeO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, the "great move" would have not signing him
> to begin with and wasting $14.5 mill for 10 games.
> Spend that money on someone else who could have
> helped us last year and this year. That's the
> great move.
>

Right. In hindsight, we would have been better off with Satele. But when the move was made (essentially Grove for Satele) the general mood around Dolphin nation is that we did the right thing.



> Cutting him is admitting a mistake of a an
> unfortunate free agent bust signing by our our
> organization.
>
> I think that is where half the board sees thing
> one way and the other half sees it another.

Agree. But hindsight is 20/20. It is VERY easy to look back and say signing Grove was a bad move. The bigger picture is more complex.

Great teams admit their mistakes and move on. Some will say we've had a lot of mistakes, but that is because we've been living under past organizations that just wouldn't admit mistakes. This regime is different. As has been mention - honest.

It is why we have so much house cleaning in regime changes, because Wanny, Saban, and Cam would not admit they made mistakes. All those crappy personnel decisions would accumulate, and by the time they were run out of town the whole team would be crap.

Our team is far from crap, because the FO isn't afraid to cut it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2010 09:15AM by DolfanMike.

There's also the point that if you have to build a team from scratch (ie no usuable talent in the prime of their career), you need to reach a bit more to field a good team. Most teams would'nt have found a Bess, but we had to turn over more stones because we had so little quality talent on the team when Parcells came in. So, if they make a few more mistakes than other teams with more talent, then so be it. They had to reach a bit more on some of these FA and draft picks because there wasn't very much to work with when they got here...

Busts? This team 3 yrs ago was on par with the Rams, Browns, Raiders,Chiefs and Lions. Now, at least they have a chance to be competitive. This team is slowly building up some talent, and now the cupboard isn't bare anymore, like it was 3 years ago...

DolfanMike Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Great teams admit their mistakes and move on.
> Some will say we've had a lot of mistakes, but
> that is because we've been living under past
> organizations that just wouldn't admit mistakes.


Great teams don't make THIS MANY mistakes. And you can't blame the past regime for Gabril, Smiley, Grove, Wilfrod, Green, White, and Turner. Those guys were brought in by Parcells/Ireland/Sparano. Cam and Saban got no blood on their hands for those guys I mentioned above

it would be one thing if these mistakes were not entirely forseeable. i.e., grove and smiley were injury prone throughout their careers. That's probably why their original teams were OK with them walking. Then when they are injury prone here, this is supposed to be a suprise or something?

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> it would be one thing if these mistakes were not
> entirely forseeable. i.e., grove and smiley were
> injury prone throughout their careers. That's
> probably why their original teams were OK with
> them walking. Then when they are injury prone
> here, this is supposed to be a suprise or
> something?

While I'm unhappy about Grove, I think, even with his injuries, Smiley provided much needed leadership during Long's rookie year. In fact, he was our best O-Lineman that year. As for Grove, I wonder if we would have been better off keeping Satele.

I certainly would not describe BP and Ireland as busts. I think you have to look at the over all performance.

Wins and losses; play-off wins; SB wins.

The first year (11-5, Divsion winner, play off loss) was probably an over achievement. Last year (7-9, no play-offs) was a bring down, realy check maybe.

This year will be very important. IMHO there has to be at least one play off win for this to be a continued success.

We can complain about details (individual deals / players), but the overall situaition is the key.