"Always liked Zach Thomas but never really thought Jason Taylor was all that good"


"If Marino would have been our QB in the 70's we would have been a .500 team, Marino never liked to run the football"


"Jason Taylor would not have started on the 72 Dolphins"

One out of three. Is he getting to old?

I agree that Marino dod not like to run the ball and that Miami team was all about the run.

"Jason Taylor would not have started on the 72 Dolphins"
That's nuts. Not only would he start, he would have been all pro.

Keuch is just angry. He isn't going to the hall of fame unless he buys a ticket like everyone else. He has pissed off everyone at Notre Dame by running his mouth about stuff he has no clue about. Now he is about to piss off all Dolphins fan by running his mouth in the same manner.

Guy doesn't know to just shut up and enjoy life. He comes off as a guy who is always miserable and angry for no reason.

I love Kooch. I love his sense of toughness, completely lost on any generation of players (and fans) after him. I love how he says what he feels, even if it pisses people off and even if he's talking himself out of a HOF induction, which he thoroughly deserves. He knows the ramifications of what he's saying, but damn the consequences, he's going to say it anyway. Good for him.

That said I certainly don't agree with him 100% of the time. It took Jason Taylor to eclipse Bill Stanfill's team sack record (we played fewer games per season during Stanfill's prime *and* Stanfill was in the league for fewer years). No offense to Vern Den Herder or the other No-Name pass rushers, but can you possibly imagine Jason Taylor on the same team as Stanfill? My god, it wouldn't even be fair to the opposition. They'd have to count three-Mississippi before rushing the QB just to make it halfway fair. I have GOT to believe that the knock against JT has a lot to do with him becoming a Jet.

The Marino comment I also don't fully agree with. But has to be framed into proper context. For one, Griese called his own plays. Marino did not. If Marino were calling his own plays, in the 70s, it may well have been unsuccessful. Also- Shula historically liked to run up until he saw what Marino could do-then Shula easily adapted and became a pass-attack head coach. I believe that if Marino was around in the 70s, Shula would have adapted then as well. Warfield, Moore, Mandich and company would have gotten a lot more touches, and Csonka a lot less. We still would have been successful though, I"m sure.

As for Notre Dame, I've heard Kooch slam them for having Weis as a coach, that Weis took a lot of credit for Bellichick's successes and when Weis took the helm as a head coach he couldn't handle it.

I live in the Boston area, and back when the Pats were making their run at the Phins' perfect record, the local jock-sniffing radio AM show had Kooch on as a guest. The Pats were 9-0 at that point and everyone around here was already anointing them as undefeated. Surprisingly, the hosts were very respectful towards Bob, and vice-versa. He stood by his pride of the 72 team, but said if the Pats pulled it off he'd be the first one on the phone to congratulate them and praise them for being Perfect. He also said that he didn't think taking pictures of the opponents' side line during the first half was such a big deal (this is what the Pats were caught doing). Meaning, if the Pats were to run the table he wouldn't diminish it by calling to mind their cheating scandal. He also had no problem with the Pats running up the score (after all, we beat their ass 41-3 and 52-0 in the early 70s, that was awesome haha).

I disagree that he is pissing off all Dolphins fans by these comments. Raising an eyebrow or two, taking what the old guy says with a grain of salt. Sure he's a product of his generation and biased towards his own team's accomplishments. I would be too. I'll tell you one thing, I can't think of anyone I'd rather have in the trenches than Bob K in his prime. Tough SOB, one of the greatest.

I don't recall Bill Stanfill ever winning Defensive POY....and Taylor has about 40 more sacks than him. Stupid comment.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/12/2010 01:46PM by eesti.

MikeO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Always liked Zach Thomas but never really thought
> Jason Taylor was all that good"
>

I get being a Zach Thomas fan.

These days you will find a lot of Miami fans saying JT sucks. That is what he gets for joining the Jets.


>
> "If Marino would have been our QB in the 70's we
> would have been a .500 team,
>

He probably meant 1976.

>
> "Jason Taylor would not have started on the 72
> Dolphins"

Maybe true. The team was perfect the way it was.

The guy dominated Alan Page in the Super Bowl with a steel rod replacing his bone marrow in his broken forearm. He could never piss me off and is entitled to his beliefs. I always though Taylor was overrated anyhow and why mess with perfection.

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't recall Bill Stanfill ever winning
> Defensive POY....and Taylor has about 40 more
> sacks than him. Stupid comment.

I don't think its that stupid. Thing is, you can't argue that the team wasn't perfect the way it was.

Did they even keep sack stats in Stanfill's time? And would JT wear jersey #53?

The 53 defensive shift was a key part of that defense. JT doesn't like shift inside which means he'd have to work as LB in the 3-4 shift. Which probably means that he would have played Matheson's role which would have put him on the bench for running downs. So I can see the logic - it was a different game.

Sacks weren't an official stat when Stanfill played. Stanfill did not have the longevity, but he was an incredibly dominant player in his prime. And definitely more dominant on a play by play basis than JT. I loved JT, and think he's a HOF talent. But, as a pass rusher, JT could beat his man with speed right off the snap, but would often get stonewalled if his first step didn't beat his man. There were always so many plays where JT, as undersized as he was, could get completely swallowed up by good tackles. Stanfill, in his prime, was really unstoppable.

Consider this. In 1973, Stanfill was unofficially credited with 18.5 sacks. That's in a 14 game schedule. Their opponents attempted 322 passes that year. The year that JT tied that record, it took him 16 games, and the opponents attempted 520 passes against us. Think about that difference. Stanfill did it in 200 fewer opportunities.

Stanfill had 5 sacks in a game twice during his career.

Stanfill was a great, great player. And in their primes, I would take Stanfill over JT. For longevity, JT was the better player. Now, I disagree with Kooch a little. The '72 Dolphins were a 4-3 team. The 3-4 was something they used in certain situations. JT would have fit very well at the DE opposite Stanfill. Vern Den Herder was a very good player, but JT would have started over him.

The funny thing is Mike Florio has been reporting he has sources telling him that he knows for sure that Keuch will get into the Hall of Fame next year.

So, who knows.

MikeO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Keuch is just angry. He isn't going to the hall
> of fame unless he buys a ticket like everyone
> else. He has pissed off everyone at Notre Dame by
> running his mouth about stuff he has no clue
> about. Now he is about to piss off all Dolphins
> fan by running his mouth in the same manner.
>
> Guy doesn't know to just shut up and enjoy life.
> He comes off as a guy who is always miserable and
> angry for no reason.


Serious Mike, you should take head to your own message.

You just described yourself, not really Bob.

Bob isnt that bad, I dont know why your trying to compare him, to you.

dolfanmark Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sacks weren't an official stat when Stanfill
> played. Stanfill did not have the longevity, but
> he was an incredibly dominant player in his prime.
> And definitely more dominant on a play by play
> basis than JT. I loved JT, and think he's a HOF
> talent. But, as a pass rusher, JT could beat his
> man with speed right off the snap, but would often
> get stonewalled if his first step didn't beat his
> man. There were always so many plays where JT, as
> undersized as he was, could get completely
> swallowed up by good tackles. Stanfill, in his
> prime, was really unstoppable.
>
> Consider this. In 1973, Stanfill was unofficially
> credited with 18.5 sacks. That's in a 14 game
> schedule. Their opponents attempted 322 passes
> that year. The year that JT tied that record, it
> took him 16 games, and the opponents attempted 520
> passes against us. Think about that difference.
> Stanfill did it in 200 fewer opportunities.
>
> Stanfill had 5 sacks in a game twice during his
> career.
>
> Stanfill was a great, great player. And in their
> primes, I would take Stanfill over JT. For
> longevity, JT was the better player. Now, I
> disagree with Kooch a little. The '72 Dolphins
> were a 4-3 team. The 3-4 was something they used
> in certain situations. JT would have fit very well
> at the DE opposite Stanfill. Vern Den Herder was a
> very good player, but JT would have started over
> him.

Thing is, Vern would slide inside in the 3-4 (as a traditional 3-4 DE would), so it would have required a second substitution. Also, Vern was very strong against the run, much more so than JT. I really think in that team, JT could have easily replaced Matheson (who did not start), but any other position is debatable. It was a different time and the players required different skills.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/12/2010 03:52PM by DolfanMike.

Regardless of his big mouth, as a player he deserves it. Voters have been saying for years that there is a dearth of guards in the Hall, because there is no good way to quantify them. Any way you cut it, he was one of the best guards to ever play this game. I really hope that the source is right.

Rick



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/12/2010 04:44PM by dolphan4545.

MikeO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The funny thing is Mike Florio has been reporting
> he has sources telling him that he knows for sure
> that Keuch will get into the Hall of Fame next
> year.
>
> So, who knows.


I really hope Florio is right about that, but how can it be 'for sure' this far ahead of the process. But I can't remember the last time I wished that someone with 'sources' was 100% correct so damn I hope that's accurate information.

The 72 team has lots of haters out there, and they hate Bob the most out of anyone on that team.

because Kooch I think would go in by the Veterans Committee. I am not positive but I am pretty sure that is how. And those guys can make up their minds and do it on their own so...no media vote needed anymore for him.

MikeO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> because Kooch I think would go in by the Veterans
> Committee. I am not positive but I am pretty sure
> that is how. And those guys can make up their
> minds and do it on their own so...no media vote
> needed anymore for him.


I've heard of the veteran committee but didn't know exactly how it worked.

Say Mike what article are those quotes from anyway? I searched but can't find them. If there's a recent full interview with Kooch out there I want to read it!

he was on with Sid today on WQAM

I am sure its archived on WQAM website. That is where I heard the Florio thing too.

MikeO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> he was on with Sid today on WQAM
>
> I am sure its archived on WQAM website. That is
> where I heard the Florio thing too.


Oh, I was searching for text, thanks

Sid? Blech. Well I'm going to prove how much I REALLY love Kooch if I'm going to go out of my way to listen to Sid's show on purpose.

JC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MikeO Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > he was on with Sid today on WQAM
> >
> > I am sure its archived on WQAM website. That is
> > where I heard the Florio thing too.
>
>
> Oh, I was searching for text, thanks
>
> Sid? Blech. Well I'm going to prove how much I
> REALLY love Kooch if I'm going to go out of my way
> to listen to Sid's show on purpose.


The quotes are and were all over the place but it was from the interview from Sid's show. I checked it is archived on WQAM.com so you can listen to it there

Amazing, people think that Keuch is an angry old man with his comments, yet all the trash talking todays kids do is accepted. I like to hear what he has to say....its refreshing (where do we hear that all the time). Rather than the same ol' I'm the greatest player crap from the current bunch of "kids" in the NFL.
On a side note, I would love for Keuch to get in and I firmly believe he deserves it. However, I don't think he ever will. Prime example for me was the Hall voters picking John Randle this year. With picks like that, Keuch doesn't stand a chance.

I hope you're wrong, Kooch deserves to get in. Besides, if somebody with Randle's famously big mouth can get in, I think it bodes well for Kooch.

Rick

But Randle had stats to back up his mouth. For a GUARD like Kooch with no stats its different. Not fair, but its just different.

MikeO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But Randle had stats to back up his mouth. For a
> GUARD like Kooch with no stats its different. Not
> fair, but its just different.

Are you saying Kooch didn't contribute on the field to back up what he says? Really?

Most of Kooch's talking brashly seems top have come *after* his playing days were over, instead of during. But I'm here to tell you, he brought it to the field. Casts on his limbs, steel rods in his bones. As was posted earlier, he made Alan Page look like a schoolgirl during SB VII. This is when Page and his teammates were the most feared D in the league by far. What's more, Kooch excelled at Guard but also moved to tackle at one point and even was a good backup center sometimes.

This kind of toughness, versatility, and reliability transcends statistics. If Kooch doesn't get in the Hall it'll be because of haters, not because of stats.

Kooch is ok w/ me. Wrong about JT though. Between Zach and JT Zach would get the overrated call before JT. Fans poured a helluva lotta love on Zach no prob w/ that.

There has never been an offensive lineman more deserving to go into the Hall than Kooch. During his playing days, I don't remember him ever saying anything out of line about anyone. Not opponents, coaches, team mates or the press. He would speak his mind when questioned but wasn't questioned often. Linemen aren't questioned much even now.

Kooch made the probowl as a guard and tackle in the same year. I don't recall anyone else ever doing that. He was a true player in every sense of the word. To bad it's taken so long. I hope the "source" is right.

When I was working at National Airlines back in the day, Kooch was also working for them in the off season. Saw him several times at the ticket counter. He was always just a regualar guy. Didn't mind staying and talking football. That was great fun.

-------------------------------------------------------
> MikeO Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > But Randle had stats to back up his mouth. For
> a
> > GUARD like Kooch with no stats its different.
> Not
> > fair, but its just different.

So with that logic, how in the world did Upshaw, Hannah, Munoz, or any offensive lineman get in?

Lol AndyB you question the logic of Mikeo....

He will get in. but it prob wont be untill he dies.

I hope at least he makes it, and especially before he croaks.

Andy B. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > MikeO Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > But Randle had stats to back up his mouth.
> For
> > a
> > > GUARD like Kooch with no stats its different.
> > Not
> > > fair, but its just different.
>
> So with that logic, how in the world did Upshaw,
> Hannah, Munoz, or any offensive lineman get in?


There are borderline players and there are sure fire locks. You mentioned offensive linemen who were sure fire locks to get in. On borderline players its tougher to get people to switch there minds on o-linemen because there are no hard stats or numbers to go by

Jason Taylor got held without a penalty being called more than any other defensive lineman I've ever watched play. For what that's worth, anyway.