I say no, we have to hit on this #12 pick, and we can't afford to have him turn out a flake IMO. Plus there's some depth and I think we can get someone decent in the 2nd or 3rd

True and if Dez falls past 12 (which I think he will) it just pushes all the other WR's down. So we will probably land one in Rd 2.

He is pulling a crabtree. He didn't run at all last year did he? and was still taken at 10.... but didn't have as many character concerns. I don't think he falls too far.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

How does he qualify as the best WR in the last two years when he didn't even really play this past season? How is he a better player than Hakeem Nicks coming out of college, especially when you consider Nicks played in a pro style offense? There's no way I would rate him a better prospect than Nicks.

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He is pulling a crabtree. He didn't run at all
> last year did he? and was still taken at 10....
> but didn't have as many character concerns. I
> don't think he falls too far.


Crabtree had a broken foot last year this time. It was a lot different. A LOT DIFFERENT!!

I seems the WRs have more "issues" that any other position. Why is that?

because there divas, plain and simple

Leon In Denver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I seems the WRs have more "issues" that any other
> position. Why is that?


Because they have the "least" control over their greatness. A RB can take the ball and run through or around someone. And when a running play is called, the ball goes to them. So no diva there. A QB can make a great play on his own, less divas there.

For a WR to be considered a "SUPERSTAR" he needs a passing play to be called, the o-line to block, he needs the QB to throw his way out fo 3 or 4 options he has, then he needs to QB to make a good throw to him. So the WR has the least control over his greatness. That is where the "DIVA" attitude comes from.

Out of the "glamour" positions (RB, QB, WR) they get the ball the least and need the most to happen to get the ball. Hence they are always insecure and making noise. It's the lack of control that creates this.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/16/2010 10:27AM by MikeO.

crabtree = broken foot

Bryant = Hamstring

D. Thomas = broken foot

all not running due to injury.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Alex Marvez is reporting Dez might fall out of Rd 1. And in his opinion he won't go before the 20th pick.

Alex said when Dez was born his mother was 15 and his father was 50!!

And there were numerous games in college where Dez showed up 30 min before kickoff.

It all depends on how much he's willing to work...if he's willing to do what he has to do and abide by the teams rules and sanctions that should be placed on him, then I say if he's there we should draft him.

If he isn't then pass.

The problem is we won't know that until after the guy is on the team. It's just going to be a guess based on how he comes across. I do think he is a great talent that could very well turn our offense into a legitimate multi-threat machine that would finally give safeties a reason to back up

One thing our receivers all have in common....none are divas. They are not great either but it shows what the team is looking for in mentality.

Incognito aside, that is the chemistry of our team now that Porter is gone.

I would rather take the chance on Demaryius Thomas rather than Bryant. Just as much upside minus the baggage. One month away from finding out.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

If he gets picked in the first round, then it validates and reinforces his view of himself: "I'm so great, I can play by my own rules". He won't behave like a professional and he'll end up being a huge bust.

If he falls to the second round, then it MIGHT wake him up. If he has any capacity for self-reflection and self-criticism, then falling to the second round could be the catalyst that turns him around and makes him a great player.

If he's there at #12, the phins should pass on him. If he's still there at #43, then they should call him on the phone and find out where his head is at. If he's pissed off, because everyone is "dissing" him, then forget him. If the hours of waiting and falling has led him to a humbling epiphany (unlikely), then they should grab him.

Mike Mayock as Dez has the 3rd best overall talent in this draft. And the BEST WR the draft has seen since Calvin Johnson.

I think Marvez is dead wrong and Dez will go high. Talent always triumphs Character

Pass on Bryant. Too much risk.

I say bring him on if he's left at 12. I remember his junior season. He is definitely a talent. Our offense needs someone to stretch the field. Get NT in 2nd

Phinsfan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MikeO Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Talent always triumphs Character!!
> >
> > I don't care what Parcells says, hell he signed
> > Icognito and keeps guys like McDaniel around!!!
> > Also, Vonte Davis didn't have a good image last
> > year this time and we took him. If Dez is there
> at
> > 12 I wouldn't be upset if we grabbed him. (as
> long
> > as his pro day goes well)
>
>
> There's a huge difference between wasting a
> hundred thousand (if you cut him) on a player with
> on field issues, and investing a 1st round pick
> and 10+ MILLION in a guy with OFF FIELD issues.
>
> On field issues can often be corrected.
>
> Off field issues are a result of major character
> flaws and aren't often correctable.


True. But there are different "shades" of red flags. Dez has never been arrested. So it isn't like his character flaws are of that nature! And I think Dez's character flaws can be correctable in my opinion.

Dez's AGENT is the biggest red flag he has in my opinion.

True....The staff will perform their due diligence...not unlike Vontae Davis last year.

I would not be disappointed if we took him at 12 bc it would show me that the FO believes in him a great deal. They say he is better than Crabtree and he is going to be a stud. I must admit... the comparisons to Andre Johnson have me foaming at the mouth.

It is not unusual for a 19-21 year old to make a few mistakes. Not everyone has the luxury of growing up like Peyton Manning or Tim Tebow in a stable environment.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

yeah Im not buying the comparisons to Andre Johnson

But Mayock and McShay both say he is the best WR in the draft since Calvin Johnson. Mayock has him #3 overall player on his board.

So, that is high praise on the field.

And this is a kid who hanging around MEN (not boys) might mature real fast! Ya never know

I don't see a huge difference with comparisons to Calvin or Andre.

Andre Johnson career stats: 1830 yards 20 TD's
Dez Bryant 08 stats: 1480 yards 19 TD's
Dez Bryant careers stats: 2425 yards 29 TD's...only played 3 games in 09!

That is phenomenal.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

MikeO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Talent always triumphs Character!!
>
> I don't care what Parcells says, hell he signed
> Icognito and keeps guys like McDaniel around!!!
> Also, Vonte Davis didn't have a good image last
> year this time and we took him. If Dez is there at
> 12 I wouldn't be upset if we grabbed him. (as long
> as his pro day goes well)

I don't think it's as much of a character issue, as it's Parcells not liking to take recievers in the 1st rnd, we can all say thats BS, but it's proven history that he doesn't value them as high as other people. I think if we can trade down he'll consider a WR (not even sure if Dez is the top WR) but I dont see us grabbing one at 12.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/20/2010 07:42AM by dolphaholic.

dolphaholic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MikeO Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Talent always triumphs Character!!
> >
> > I don't care what Parcells says, hell he signed
> > Icognito and keeps guys like McDaniel around!!!
> > Also, Vonte Davis didn't have a good image last
> > year this time and we took him. If Dez is there
> at
> > 12 I wouldn't be upset if we grabbed him. (as
> long
> > as his pro day goes well)
>
> I don't think it's as much of a character issue,
> as it's Parcells not liking to take recievers in
> the 1st rnd, we can all say thats BS, but it's
> proven history that he doesn't value them as high
> as other people. I think if we can trade down
> he'll consider a WR (not even sure if Dez is the
> top WR) but I dont see us grabbing one at 12.

I'm wondering how much influence Parcells will have over Ireland in this coming draft. I have to imagine he will push less and less each year, and his complete miss with Pat White last year may prompt him to defer to Ireland. That said, would Ireland draft a WR in the first?

If Mayock says he is the next Andre Johnson, then I have every reason to believe him.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

montequi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> I'm wondering how much influence Parcells will
> have over Ireland in this coming draft. I have to
> imagine he will push less and less each year, and
> his complete miss with Pat White last year may
> prompt him to defer to Ireland. That said, would
> Ireland draft a WR in the first?


It's an interesting question. I guess Parcells has more say in the early round picks, then backs off in the mid to late round picks. But if he is serious about hanging it up soon, then he might start backing off totally and voice an opinion and leave it up to Jeff.

MikeO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I guess Parcells has
> more say in the early round picks, then backs off
> in the mid to late round picks. But if he is
> serious about hanging it up soon, then he might
> start backing off totally and voice an opinion and
> leave it up to Jeff.

It's interesting, actually. If Parcells really has had more influence on early round picks, consider the comparisons if players drafted at the same position in the same draft:

Merling -vs- Langford: Langford has been the better DE so far.

Turner -vs- Hartline: No contest. Hartline has been very good and Turner has been invisible.

Shawn Murphy -vs- Donald Thomas: Seeing as Murphy isn't with the team anymore, Thomas has definitely turned out better.

Did Parcells have influence over the higher draft pick? Was the lower draft pick Ireland's decision?

Parcells has been a huge influence in 3 ways:

1. Overall team philosophy
2. Hiring coaches, etc.. (Sparano, Ireland, Henning, etc..)
3. Reputation playing a role in signing free agents (e.g. Pennington)

I'm not sure if his influence over our drafts has really been that significant.