I think we need to go ILB with our 1st rounder, but then a 2nd round WR.

I would love to get Danario Alexander. At 6' 4" with 4.5 speed he would be an awesome 2nd round pick.

He is #3 in the NCAA in Receptions and #1 in yards. That tells me he is productive as a WR, has good enough speed to stretch the field, and he has the size to get over most DB's.

I don't see us drafting our 'blue chip' #1 WR. I think we'll need to address that in FA. But drafting Alexander pushes everyone, and gives a shot at 2 fast big WR's.

If 2010 is an uncapped year, as it currently stands, Kevin Walter is likely the best free agent WR available. While he would be better than anyone on our roster, I don't think he'd qualify as a #1 WR. It's going to be interesting to see how they address this. I think the coaching staff really likes both Bess and Camarillo for their hard work and their hands. And Hartline has promise. And they won't give up on a 3rd rd pick like Turner yet. So, will they go out and get two WR, which would probably squeeze out Camarillo? Or will they settle for one new WR while hoping that Camarillo gets back more quickness in year 2 after acl surgery, that Hartline can be a #2 guy, and that Turner can be a contributor?

Long term? Ginn will be gone unless he restructures he will be making $1.1 Mil in 2010 and $1.4 million in 2011. After 3 years he has not shown consistent improvment as a WR to be considered a developing talent. He is what he is. His speed is an asset to us THIS year...but that quality is not hard to replace. Far better to draft a guy who has 'sufficient' speed and has also shown productivity as a route runner and pass catcher.

Camarillo would not be a starter with most play-off teams. Great hands...but he just isn't getting open enough. Lacks the speed and size to be a #1 or #2.

Turner has the physical qualities needed to be a #2 or #3.
Bess is a #3
Hartline is a #2 or #3 WR.

We need a #1.

We need competition at #1. That won't come from anyone on the roster. So We sign 1 FA, we draft another WR in 2010. Guys who have a shot at being our #1 WR.

Danario Alexander will be available in the 2nd round. He isn't a burner with 4.4 speed. But with his size...4.5 is fast enough to be a #1.

Alexander on the field with Hartline & Bess will defeat most zone or man coverage. Alexander, Hartline and Turner is a great possession/deep threat line-up.

4.4 IS A BURNER AND 4.5 IS FAST ENOUGH. ARE YOU SERIOUSLY CUTTING IT THAT CLOSE TO SAY BASICALLY THAT HE SLIPS TO A LATER PICK BECAUSE OF .1 IN THE SPEED DEPARTMENT?

clovis phinatic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 4.4 IS A BURNER AND 4.5 IS FAST ENOUGH. ARE YOU
> SERIOUSLY CUTTING IT THAT CLOSE TO SAY BASICALLY
> THAT HE SLIPS TO A LATER PICK BECAUSE OF .1 IN THE
> SPEED DEPARTMENT?

Remember, you're only talking about 40 yards. .1 is a big difference over a longer distance.

Have you seen the difference up close? I have had to prep players for combines. There is a difference between 4.5 and 4.4.

You would think that it would make no difference, but you gotta remember that they both start from '0' and it takes them 3 strides to get up to speed ( for the well trained ones...some it takes 5 strides). So the difference is minimal in the first 10-20 yards, but by the time they hit 40...the guy who is .1 seconds faster is a full yard in front. And running 60 yards? That can be the difference between a TD and an over-throw.

For perspective...

Deion Sanders has the 'unofficial record' at the NFL Combine of 4.28 seconds. Ted Ginn ran a 4.37 Hartline ran a 4.58. That's a difference of .21 on the clock and about 10 yards on the field.

Ideally you want sub 4.5 time for a 'speed' guy. That's the conventional standard.

Realist - Thanks for the explanation on how speed differences can have such and impact. I understand it better now. Now I can see how a guy like Bess can be so good in short yardage. It seems blazing speed is not as important for short yardage gains.

thats your wish..Danario Alexander, Missouri
Height: 6-5. Weight: 215.
Projected 40 Time: 4.57.
Projected Round (2010): 5-6.

0/10/09: Danario Alexander will be a good fit for a team that doesn't require its receivers to run routes. Alexander has 35 receptions for 447 yards and four touchdowns in five games.



..? That wish sucks compared to mine.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2009 05:37AM by DaytonaDolfan13.

I wish to trade TEDD GINN and PAT WHITE to the RAIDERS for their 1st pick...

And then select

#8 ROLANDO McCLAIN ILB
#25 TAYLOR MAYS S
#57 JERMAINE GRESHAM TE
#89 TOBY GERHART RB
#121 DANARIO ALEXANDER WR (there ya got your wish)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2009 09:51AM by DaytonaDolfan13.

I fully understand what you are saying realist but the "average" 40 time for an NFL WR is 4.5.

A #1 needs to be 4.4 or better with size, hands, route running ability and physicality thrown in too, JMO.

Also, I'd keep Ginn on the roster and get him some help in the off season. (By help I mean a sucessful ex NFL WR as a mentor to help him get better)

I'd keep Ginn, Bess, Hartline and Turner (because we know nothing about him) and would draft two players with 4.4 speed or better if next year is uncapped...if we have a cap then a F/A pick up and drafting one is fine by me but they have both got to be blue chip players.

I'm curious what Jerry Rice's 40 time was. He wasn't known as a fast receiver, but he was, arguably, the best WR ever.

jerry ran a 4.6 i think

a tad off topic, but this kid from ole miss is going to be a superstar. he has incredible breakout speed. He's rather undersized, but is still very effective and should be looked at. His name is Dexter Mccluster. check him out on youtube.

*** 2009 NCAA FBS Receptions Statistics ***
(Complete through Saturday, December 5th)

From The Sports Network

R E C E P T I O N S P E R G A M E

Rank Player G Ct Yds TD Rec/Gm
1. Freddie Barnes, Bowling Green 12 138 1551 16 11.50
2. James Cleveland, Houston 11 101 1182 14 9.18
3. Danario Alexander, Missouri 12 107 1644 13 8.92

Yes a 6'4" 210lb WR with 4.5 speed who has 107 catches for 1644 yds is my wish.

Not sure where your info came from? Mine came from the NCAA website.

Yes I agree that a #1 should have 4.4 speed.

That's why I feel we need to sign a #1 WR in free Agnecy. And although we could draft a #1 WR with our 1st rounder...but...I think our needs on D are going to be more pressing.

Assuming Paul Soliai gets the nod as our starting NT ( which is possible but not certain), we still need to address our ILB weaknesses and our aging DE/OLB problem.

I think 1st round we go D.

with our 2nd rounder we can get a guy who can come in a push all the WR's. We could draft speed alone...but..we have that in Ginn ( I would love for him to pan out)...we could go for size(like Turner) but his production comes into question...anyone with size speed and production is a 1st round pick.

2-3rd rounders are missing something...I would rather give up .1 seconds of speed if it means getting a guy who has been productive throughout his career and has size. Alexander has unquestionably been productive and has size.

Yes I read between 4.67 and 4.7.

Rice ran a 4.63 official time at the combine and logged a 4.59 unofficial time..but at his pro day he ran a 4.4. His biography has him having 4.5 speed.

So he was probably closer to 4.5 than 4.6...in reality. His game speed was pretty good in any event.