Neither Madison or Surtain started as rookies.....so I believe they are a step ahead of 2 all time Dolphin greats.

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"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Phinjim Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm personnally not sold on "we got studs' for our
> cbs.
>
> Always in the descriptin is - "Good (caveat) for a
> rookie" vs just good as a player in the NFL.
>
> Our secondary is something like 28th in the league
> ... don't tell me our cbs or any of the secondary
> are studs until we break into the top tier.
>
> For me db picks have potential, but the jury is
> still out.
> - Just my opinion


IMO both vontae davis and sean smith are doing better in their first 8 games as pros than madison and surtain did. Call me a homer but if you take a look at the QBs and receivers weve had to go through, they are not doing that bad. Especially since the passrush hasnt been all that great.

And it's hard to criticize any corners when our pass rush is so anemic. Look at the 2 big plays Vontae Davis gave up.

On the first one, he had great coverage. Randy Moss used his left arm to hold down Davis' right arm, and Moss made a one handed catch of a perfectly thrown pass. There is nothing Davis could have done.

On the second one, we sent a big blitz after Brady, and no one got close. When you blitz like that, you cannot ask your corner to cover Randy Moss all the way across the field on a crossing pattern. The blitz is supposed to force the ball to come out quickly. That didn't happen. If it had, maybe Davis makes the play.

We need to make QBs more uncomfortable. Too often, the opposing QB is allowed to stand there in a perfect pocket and make throws like it's practice. If we were better at rushing the passer, I think we'd see even better play from Davis and Smith.

Surtain wasnt even a full time start until his 3rd year. These guys are already starting as rookies. They are definately the present and future. No doubt about it.

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"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

We need to wade into free agency with whatever it takes and get the best WR available...period and no excuses. Then we need to draft the best WR on the board in the first round.

Then we draft

2. LB/S
3. LB/S/DT
4. CB/S/DE
5. OL/WR
6. BPA
7. BPA


That leaves us with: (and I'd keep 6 WR's without question)

1. FA...must be reliable, speedy, and able to consistently make 15-25 yard plays.
2. 1st round Rookie...must have 4.3-4.4 speed and have great hands.
3. Hartline...must continue to progress.
4. Ginn...must improve overall but he's got too much potential to cut or trade, has too much speed but we must improve around him to the point we can get him into more consistent 1-1 coverage...I believe he thrives with more dynamic help around him.
5. Bess/Turner/Camarillo...one of them will have to be cut/traded.

Hopefully Ireland/Parcells can find a gem ala Miles Austin.

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"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Ken Wrote:
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> We need to wade into free agency with whatever it
> takes and get the best WR available...period and
> no excuses.

What if the best free agent WR available are Michael Jenkins and Kevin Walter? If next year winds up being an uncapped year, that may very well be the case. While both are better than anything we have, are they really worth going all out to sign?

dolfanmark Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ken Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > We need to wade into free agency with whatever
> it
> > takes and get the best WR available...period
> and
> > no excuses.
>
> What if the best free agent WR available are
> Michael Jenkins and Kevin Walter? If next year
> winds up being an uncapped year, that may very
> well be the case. While both are better than
> anything we have, are they really worth going all
> out to sign?


If we don't have a shot at anyone with speed and hands in FA then we are forced to look to the draft...or investigate a trade of somekind.

dolfanmark Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> We need to make QBs more uncomfortable. Too often,
> the opposing QB is allowed to stand there in a
> perfect pocket and make throws like it's practice.
> If we were better at rushing the passer, I think
> we'd see even better play from Davis and Smith.


I live in NE and see the Pats every week. The Dolphins had as much pressure as any team other than the Jets in week 2. the opposing QB's we are talking about here are Manning, Brees, and Brady, right? I mean there is a reason those guys are where they are. On top of the fact that their Olines and backs are better at picking up pressure, they have pocket skills that allow them to look more comfortable under pressure than e.g. Henne who needs some work on pocket presence and knowing when the blindside rush is coming.

joemama. You are right. However, if you're going to beat the best you better BE the best. We need a pass rush that will get the necessary pressure on these QBs period. Defense is everything in football. Keep the other team from scoring and you win period.
Sooooo, I believe the first thing that needs addressing is D Line, and Line Backers. We need run stoppers and pass rushers.

Perfect example is the way the Giants played NE in the SB. They had pressure on Brady for the first half, then the second half they started to change things up and Brady got to them. They then got smart and started putting the pressure on him again later in the second half.

Put pressure on Brady and he becomes average. As do most QBs.

I hate to admit it, but NE knows this and has built an exceptional OL.

Back to the original post about our offense...

If we had a top 5 WR this year, we would be leading the AFC east at 6-2 maybe 6-3. All losses coming prior to Henne taking over.

My logic...a legitimate downfield threat opens up 2nd/3rd receivers which opens up the running game (which would be tops in the league) which would keep the offense on the field longer which, in turn, keeps the defense off the field and rested which allows them to play at a higher level while they're out there. They don't have to be top 5 defense but I think they could play top 10 defense if they weren't on the field soooooo much.

NE is not NEARLY the team they are without Moss. Henne will be great if he has someone great to throw to.

Everybody makes good points both offensivelly and defensivelly.

But IMO if we had great receivers wed be leading the division. Or at least be a threat to new england which we are not right now.


Its a year like this when i wish we would play the stinking jets all 16 games.

And what happened in the Colts game? We controlled the ball for 45 mins. and our Defense fell on its face. If we had scored more Manning would have scored more also. We can't stop any good offense.

I bring up the Marino days to press the point. Without a great defense the super bowl will not come for us. We had a great offense that scored enough to be champs. The D let Dan and the team down time and again.

Defense must improve dramatically or we won't see the SB.

And yes, we also need WRs.

Leon and what happened in the madison surtain zach thomas JT days we had a great defense and didnt win anything either.

It goes both ways, you need to have both a great defense and a great offense.

We are about about 3 players away on defense....A safety, and a couple of pass rushing LBs...


On offense IMO we are about a couple of WRs away who can put fear in defenses.

Imagine how good we'd be with some receivers that can stretch the field. Even without receivers we r about the best rushing team in the league.

Add a passing game to that and we'd be unstoppable. Our passing game is noneexistant.

I'm amazed we're even having this discussion. It seems some Phin fans have been offense-starved for so long they're not seeing straight. The last team I remember to win the Superbowl on a great offense and a mediocre defense was the Rams. That team had, probably, one of the best NFL offenses EVER and they BARELY won (by 2 yards!).

It wouldnt matter if we had Larry Fitzegereald and Andre Johnson, we would still lose to the COlts and Saints becuase they would still score more points than us. Our defense is atrocious.

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"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
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> It wouldnt matter if we had Larry Fitzegereald and
> Andre Johnson, we would still lose to the COlts
> and Saints becuase they would still score more
> points than us. Our defense is atrocious.


Well aqua we lost by 4 against the colts and by 10 against the saints.

Dont you think if we had these two we could had score at least 2 more TDs?

Yeah, both those teams would have scored 3 to win by one TD.

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"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

10 points in the saints game is misleading as they had a pick 6 at the end of them game. We had a big enough lead in that game that any passing threat at all would've kept them from blitzing, blitzing, blitzing. And iirc, there were a several dropped/bobbled balls by our no. 1 receiver (one pick 6 and one big 3rd down conversion) that would have turned that game in our favor. imo, that's a win if we had a top reciever.

i just think our Defense would have given up a TD no matter how many points our offense put up against Indy or NO. JMO

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"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

The way Payton shredded our defensive backfield, I count that a loss regardless who we have at WR.

I just believe we could've slowed NO's scoring down enough to win that game if we had made a few crucial receptions...but we'll never know.

btw A&O, I believe I read somewhere here that you're in Iraq. If you're over there serving...Happy veterans day and thanks for your service!