1) Not a bad game overall. Vontae Davis and Smith played well considering who they were playing against. Jason Allen played alright too.

2) Ginn should not be counted on in clutch situations. Put him on the field on 1st and 10 in the 3rd Quarter, but when everyone knows we need to pass.....put other guys in.

3) with 5 minutes in the game...3rd and 4....we should have run the ball. We were getting some yards. Wildcat the ball. Give us the option of 4th and 1. Poor play-call there.


4)!?!?! what was that Wildcat reverse pass? That was embarrassing.

The bad news is that once again we lost a game against a tough opponent that we could have won.

The good news? We get a better draft pick and a softer schedule next year. So maybe 2010..things fall into place.

Oh yeah....and Porter should not be on the field if he can't produce ...something!

Cameron Wake had a handful of snaps and got a sack.....Porter couldn't beat the 3rd string LT to get to the QB.

Realist, the problem is our WR core as a whole. They all dropped passes when we needed them. Please stop with Ginn only. Our entire WR corps sucks and none of them make a difference in a game.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

and we also need to get past this notion that Bess and Camarillo are #2 and/or #3 WR's in this league. THEY AREN'T!! Bess and Camarillo are 4th and 5th WR's in this league and lucky to make most NFL teams. They aren't and will never be players to help a playoff team/contender win anything of any substance.

And to be honest Bess is a crappy punt returner and Ginn really should be back returning punts as well as kickoffs. I'm all for going ALL IN on Ginn on special teams and using him as a #3 WR (next year) once we get a legit #1 and legit #2 WR on our roster

yes they have all dropped a pass or two. But...in the clutch...Ginn has proven he isn't a clutch player.

I am not saying he should be benched altogether. I'm saying that in the 2 minute drill...he gets jittery hands and doesn't make the catches.

AGREED!!!! 100%

If GINN isn't out there in the 2 min drill who do you want to replace him?? Joey Haynos?? When we go to 3 and 4 WR sets and are forced to throw, who do you want out there thats an upgrade???? I'm dying to hear.

If you BENCH a guy you must PUT someone in his spot. So, who's going in???

Hey I will go in, I can drop passes just like all the other Wide outs...

What is the point of having him there if he isn't going to make the catch?

You can do the 2 minute drill with 3 WR and Ricky & Ronnie. Both of them are clutch players.

2 minute doesn't equate to 'hail marry'; you can still run screen passes, draws, swing passes etc.

here's another idea.....how about activating Turner? Bess, Camarillo, Hartline and Turner is no worse than having Ginn in there.


Hope you enjoyed it.

sometimes realist you make too much sense.... but only sometimes... JK...

I agree Ginn needs to only be on special teams! Put in Turner already! We also need to put in Wake already! JP hurts us just as much as Ginns clutch moment drops!

realist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What is the point of having him there if he isn't
> going to make the catch?
>
> You can do the 2 minute drill with 3 WR and Ricky
> & Ronnie. Both of them are clutch players.
>
> 2 minute doesn't equate to 'hail marry'; you can
> still run screen passes, draws, swing passes etc.
>
> here's another idea.....how about activating
> Turner? Bess, Camarillo, Hartline and Turner is no
> worse than having Ginn in there.
>
>
> Hope you enjoyed it.


Yep, I enjoy FICTION!! There is a reason why the coaching staff isn't doing what you are saying they should do. Cause its unrealistic and dumb!!

Ginn never makes any plays?? How was he vs Indy and the Jets?? We have NOW gone from Ginn drops everything to he catches nothing and hasn't ever. Way to just MAKE STUFF UP now.

People think Ginn is a bust due to where he was drafted...well maybe he isn't living up to the billing but where he was drafted was totally out of his control. He also may never be a #1 WR in the NFL but who cares? If he only turns out to be a quality #2 or #3 once we find the guys we need and that creates more open field for him to run in if he then becomes more productive I'll be happy.

After all where would guys such as Alvin Harper and Mark Duper be without the Michael Irvins and Mark Claytons of the world.

This team is still a work in progress and I like where it's headed...I think everyone will agree...with a more stout defense and an offense that can make (any at all) plays in the passing game and we should have a chance to win each and every game we play.

I never said Ginn never makes plays. I said he doesn't make them during the clutch time at the end of the game....ie. 2 minute drill.

You posed a question as to what I would do without Ginn...I gave you two quick thoughts...1 of which is less common, but far from DUMB as MANY teams have run the 2 minute drill with 3 WR's and either 2backs or a back & TE. How old are you? Did you watch the Cowboys with Emmit Smith? The Bills with the K-gun, the 49ers in their prime? All of them ran 3 WR 2 minute sets.

Fiction? Right. you're not as well read as you think you are.


The other option was putting Turner in there, which would also be a viable chain moving 2 minute target.

The 2 minute drill doesn't require you to score on 1 play. You just need to move the chains through the air, getting out of bounds, and mixing in some effective runs/screens, swing passes.

Please stop with Ginn only.--------------HA THATS A JOKE RIGHT? Maybe we'll stop when he CATCHES a PASS.

I am a professional photographer and I have better hands --NO DOUBT I make that catch, I catch the one against INDY, I can field punts too.


realist is right, keep it real

I agree with Realist. In the clutch, I'd rather have a slower receiver in the game with better hands, then a fast receiver with suspect hands. I know that Camarillo is not near a pro bowl caliber WR, but at least he does make the occasional great catch. How about that last grab in garbage time. Yeah, no pressure cause the game was done, but still a highlight reel catch.

Yeah, Camarillo is still our most clutch receiver. He already has a place in Dolphin history as a clutch guy. Unfortunately, on a real team he's, at best, a #4 WR.

My gripe is, it looks like Bess is having a major sophmore slump. Last year he was just about automatic catching the ball. This year he's dropping them like hot potatoes. When Cam wasn't 100% back, I was campaigning to have Bess replace him as a starter (Bess/Hartline). Now I have no idea.

The two receivers that I think have shown themselves most reliable this year are Hartline and Camarillo. Now, that's damning them with faint praise because Ginn has been awful and Bess scares me every time I see him handling the ball this year. I can only imagine how ineffective Patrick Turner must be in practice for him not to push ahead of one of these receivers on the depth chart. Like I said in an earlier post, receiver likely won't be addressed until next year.

Here is the problem with dropping Ginn from the receiving situation. The view from OUR perspective of fans DEMANDING an end to his inconsistent performance is not the same perspective as the OPPOSING COACH OR TEAMS. It's like someone in your family who is a screw-up may not be viewed as a screw up by the other team but just unlucky. I would venture that if an opposing coach did not give due consideration to Ginn's speed and open field ability, he would be called on the carpet if he left Ginn open.

So, no team is going to leave him open. Okay, now, are you going to put your worst defender on him? Are you going to put YOUR Gabril Wilson on him? No Way! Again, you are going to respect his potential even given his inconsistent hands. No way are you going to design your coverage ON THE ASSUMPTION that he is going to miss the catch.

Conclusion: Ginn should stay in the lineup. Whether he should be thrown the ball can be another question but...........


Again, it is amazing to me, Ginn fails to catch a difficult to catch ball on a 4th Down play and too many people on this board are reacting as if this cost us the game.

Like I said, in that very series, an easy catch down low was dropped with the defender not being a factor.

Ginn should be used in plays that get him the ball in the open field ala Reggie Bush. He's one of the fastest guys in the NFL. If we can't find some way to exploit that, then we should trade him. Ginn will never make the spectacular catch, but give in a reverse or a quick throw to the sidelines, and let him work his magic like that.

I agree about Ginn's speed and abilities. BUT...if he gets open at the clutch times, and the QB throws him the ball, and he drops a catchable ball.....what was it for?

Wouldn't it be better to ask the OL to block a little longer and get the other WR's to make a double move?

It is preferable to have Ginn get open and catch the ball. But he has had 3-4 games where he was in position to keep the final drive alive with a 'catchable' throw and has failed to do so. At SOME point you have to give up on potential and go reality.

I would love for Ginn to figure it out, and make an important catch in the final 2 minutes of the game to allow us to keep going down the field and score. And maybe they will give him more chances, but they already decided to take the starting spot away from him. There were reasons for that. The same philosophy comes into play here. You gotta give someone else the chance to make plays.

Give me an Oronde Gadsden type over a Ted Ginn type any day of the week. Gadsden was ponderously slow. Painfully slow. But he was absolutely clutch when the game was on the line. Fourth quarter, hurry up offense, down by 6, 4th down and 10.... who do you want? As slow as Gadsden was (and God was he ever slow), he would've made that catch yesterday. No offense to Ginn at all, but he is what he is. A very, very fast guy with below average hands, who tends to drop the ball at the worst times. Again, this discussion is all moot anyway. We are not upgrading the receiver position now... hopefully we will next year. All the receivers that are active will get on the field to some degree. That said, I think that the majority of the reps ought to go to guys that are making more plays. On that same note, I think that Cameron Wake ought to be getting more playing time and Joey Porter less. The message ought to be that the more plays you make, the more you play. Joey has been invisible this year. He's a liability.

Ginn and Gadsden are completely different receivers. I'd LOVE to have Gadsden right now. He'd, no doubt, lead the team in TDs. Turner MAY be a Gadsden-type WR. Maybe we'll find out soon.

I'd like to see Ginn used on a fake end around, then when the defense adjusts to the fake handoff, to throw it back to him, and see what he can do with his speed and moves on the 1 on 1 lb or DB trying to cover him.

Might work to get some space and some yds after catch.

Phinjim Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'd like to see Ginn used on a fake end around,
> then when the defense adjusts to the fake handoff,
> to throw it back to him, and see what he can do
> with his speed and moves on the 1 on 1 lb or DB
> trying to cover him.
>
> Might work to get some space and some yds after
> catch.

How about an end-around to Pat White where, instead of running, he throws it to Ginn instead.