Well, let's start the arguing and keep going until the moderators lock the thread.

What about the Dolphins going for 2 points after scoring a touchdown and the score being 30-19?

The announcers hated it. They couldn't figure out why.

However, at the end, when we were sitting at 30-25 and the Jets were driving, I said to myself "If we had scored those 2 points, we would at least be guaranteed overtime."

Could the Dolphin coaching staff have anticipated this situation and that is why they went for 2?

Or do you say that the 30-25 score was something the Dolphin coaching staff could not have forseen because it relied on the Jets scoring a touchdown AND failing on a 2 point conversion. (The point is that our coaching staff would have had to have assumed that the Jets would score a field goal which would make it either 32, 31, or 30 to 22, a touchdown with either a 1 point version or a 2 point conversion, making the score 32, 31, or 30 to 26 or 27?)

Looking at the numbers in the last paragraph, my opinion is that it was not just a dumb lucky decision but it was planned.

What do you think?

i think it was about momentum more than anything else... to take the wind out of NYJ sails... other than that, i cant think of a single reason. i didn't hate the move even after it failed, because of the potential pay off... i like having a coach with cojones...

"I don't really care what happened in the past, I'm not afraid of challenges. I look forward to them." - T. Sparano

I also think it had very little to do with the numbers game and more of a momentum/feel thing. When your feeling it, go for it. This is a very Parcellian approach to game strategy.

who cares honestly... it's one of those decisions that had positives and negatives both ways.

Fortunately it didn't matter in the end so to belabor the point is.. well.. pointless

OK, for those fans who don't do well in math, here goes...

There was no reason whatsoever to go for the two point coversion. 1 point makes it a two touchdown game ***31 to 19***....12 points! The Jets don't go for two if they're down 31 to 25, they kick and make it 31 to 26! Hell, they can even miss the kick...doesn't matter b/c they still need another TD.

How would a 13 point lead take the wind out of their sails any more than a 12 point lead would? It's two touchdowns either way you look at it. The jets were happy to see us going for two because it made absolutely NO DIFFERENCE to them...unless we don't make it which makes it a TD and a FG game.

There is no "when your feeling it, go for it" on two point conversions in this league! It was a MISTAKE! No coach in the NFL would say otherwise. Even Parcellian.

I agree with GBOfinFan that I don't get the momentum thing.

However, I don't agree with him on the math.

I think that the coaching staff was looking at only one side of the equation (and I can't argue with those who say that that outlook might be bad in and of itself). They were thinking that if they got the two points and the Jets MISSED a two point try, that would leave them with 32-25 and a guarantee of overtime.

My problem is that this turned out to be an almost impossible to predict scenario that luckily for the coaching staff came about.

To me, facing a 32-19 deficit, a 13 point deficit, it would seem more likely that the Jets would NOT attempt a two point conversion UNDER ANY SCENARIO because an 8 point gain by them would still leave a 5 point deficit which is a touchdown or two field goals. Therefore going for 8 points makes no sense for the Jets IF WE HAD MADE THE 2 POINT CONVERSION. But the only possible justification for our staff going for the 2 point conversion would be to put ourselves in a better position if the Jets fail on a future 2 point conversion, which they did. But they only TRIED that 2 point conversion because we missed our 2 point conversion.

In other words, going for 8 points makes no sense for the Jets unless the Dolphins FAIL in their 2 point conversion (which is what happened) and your deficit is now 30-19, 11 points which is a two point touchdown conversion and a field goal.

And to the guy who says essentially WHAT'S THE POINT IN DISCUSSING THIS? WE WON! I say.........................................what about the next time?

If I were a player or staff member of the Dolphins, I would read this board to get a take on what the fans are thinking.

There is a scenario Sparano may have had in mind:

11 points - (Jets score 7 TD & a FG 3 = 10Pts) = +1 (which would lose if Jets added a second FG

13 Pts - the same preserves a tie = +3

About the only thing I can think of. The logic would be:

1. If the jets get a TD and a FG we win anyway with 11 pts lead.
2. If the jets get a TD and 2 FGs we stay in it for a tie if we make the two pointer.
3. Therefore they have to get two TDs to beat us if we make the 2 pts.

The scenario Sparano played was the scenario that is on the stupid chart that they carry around. He only did it because the chart told him too. I still think they should junk the chart is certain situations. But for seom reason the coaches live and die by that thing.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

KICK. THE. BALL! If you don't need to go for 2, then DON'T!!! Especially with our defense we have no business taking any points off the board! Kicking the ball in any situation is a good play, IMO. If you don't have to go for 2, go for it, etc, then chances are you really shouldn't!

Sounds too simple sometimes, venom! LOL!!

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

12 pts (kick it) versus 11 points spread would have done squat

13 pts (2pt try) vs 11 forces two TDs to beat us. and a tie for a TD and 2 FGs

I'm not sure what the argument for kicking it or concern for trying the 2 pt is based on.

Venom65437 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> KICK. THE. BALL! If you don't need to go for 2,
> then DON'T!!! Especially with our defense we have
> no business taking any points off the board!
> Kicking the ball in any situation is a good play,
> IMO. If you don't have to go for 2, go for it,
> etc, then chances are you really shouldn't!


HOly crap is that a riddle? Stunner used to come up with riddles like that. LOL

I'd like to get a copy of "the chart." As one of the announcers said, the chart does not take into account the time of the game, or how teams have been playing both in terms of how well they have been playing or how fast or slow they have moved down the field or whether they have been passing good or running good or doing either poorly.

Still I'd like to get a copy of "the chart" to take a look at it.

PhinJim, you lost me. I always thought that when deciding to go for two or one you look at not only if you succeed under each possibility but if you fail under each possibility.

So, if you go for 2, you have to Look at 32-19 if you succeed and 30-19 if you fail. Then, in considering going for 1, You have to look at 31-19. (Very little possibility of failing a kick but that would also be 30-19.) You have to assume that you'll make the kick.

The guys who say it was a bad call reason that a 12 point lead (1 point conversion) is better than an 11 point lead (a missed 2 point conversion) and that even a successful 2 point conversion (32-19) gives you ONLY a 13 point lead, which 2 touchdown would beat in any event.

So PhinJim, what do you say to those people?

He is trying to excuse the fact that he made a mistake with all that nonesense. None of that makes sense.

Is this the transcript to one of Barack Obama's Q&A sessions?

"I don't really care what happened in the past, I'm not afraid of challenges. I look forward to them." - T. Sparano

I guess cause it puts u up by 13, which is a TD & 2 FG's. Where as if u kick an extra point and go up by 12 a TD & 2 FG's beats u.


Thats my only guess, but Im just guessing on that one.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Well dont get me wrong Phinsfan, I didnt say it made sense. But it was the only conclusion i could come up with of why Sparano would go for 2.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

going for 2 in that situation was one of the single worst in-game decisions I have seen a coach make maybe ever.

It didn't come back to bite us this time, so I wouldn't make a big deal of it. Hopefully someone sits Sparano down and sets him straight!

Mike, Im not saying it was right...but, he was following the chart that every coach in the NFL follows week in and week out. These exact same calls are made numerous times throughout an NFL season. So to say Sparano made one of the worst in game decisions ever would be equal with all the other *EXACT* same decisions that are made every season...NUMEROUS TIMES.

Now once again, I dont believe in following the chart. So, I say again, I DID NOT LIKE THE CALL EITHER. But, he is not the only coach making this call.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

when you are up by 11 in the 4th quarter if the chart says go for 2, then rip up the chart!!! Nobody with a brain would go for 2 in that situation.

And if Sprano is so dumb that he needs a chart to tell him what to do, then I don't want him as our head coach. Why even have a head coach, just have a chart and let someone do what the chart says in every possible situation

And he might be the only coach to maket his call. I have NEVER seen it done before when up 11 late in the game.

Phinsfan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ChyrenB Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >(The point
> > is that our coaching staff would have had to
> have
> > assumed that the Jets would score a field goal
> > which would make it either 32, 31, or 30 to 22,
> a
> > touchdown with either a 1 point version or a 2
> > point conversion, making the score 32, 31, or
> 30
> > to 26 or 27?)
> >
> > Looking at the numbers in the last paragraph,
> my
> > opinion is that it was not just a dumb lucky
> > decision but it was planned.
> >
> > What do you think?
>
>
> Planned or not it was a DUMB decision. I'd like
> to know their reasoning if it was planned.
> Frankly, it would bother me even more if they
> thought that was the right thing to do instead of
> if they made a simple gaffe on how many points we
> were actually up.
>
> We scored a TD with 8:48 left in the game. It
> put us up 30-19. That's an 11 point spread.
>
> At this point in the game the clock is a factor,
> in that you know that the Jets are likely to get
> only two more possessions barring some freak
> occurance and we are likely to get one, maybe a
> second one at the end if the Jets score qucikly
> enough should they actully score twice.
>
> At 30-19 we are up 11. If we go for two and miss
> then that score affords the Jets the opportunity
> to tie the game on a TD and 2-point conversion on
> one possession and a FG on the other.
>
> If we kick the PAT we are up 12 (31-19) and the
> Jets will have to score 2 TD's to take the lead
> and will be forced to go for one 2-pt conversion
> to extend their lead to 3pts if they managed to
> score two TD's thereby forcing us to kick a FG at
> the end to tie, not to win.
>
> The ONLY benefit to getting the 2-point conversion
> and goin up by 13 pts (32-19) is that if the Jets
> score two TD's they won't go for a 2point
> conversion on either and will kick 2 PAT's to
> ensure they take the lead. Under this scenario
> we could win with a FG drive if left enough time
> after the Jets 2nd TD.
>
> In sincerely doubt that the staff was thinking
> that "we have to go for two here so that they have
> to go for two on BOTH of their TD's (if the score
> them) to ensure our last second FG can only tie
> the game." That would rewuire them to make a
> decision to go for 2 based on their anticpating 2
> more jet TD's and a FG from us on the last 3
> possessions of the game. If Edgar Casey was our
> head coach I could see your point, but he's not.
>
> First of all, the Jets would never go for two if
> we were up 13. Why would they risk a tie game or
> a loss when they could take a lead in the final
> minute? If we were up 13, they score a TD and
> kick the PAT to cut it to 6. If they score again
> they kick the PAT to go ahead 1.
>
> If we were up 12 and they score a td they kick the
> PAT to cut it to 5. If they score again they are
> up 1 after the TD. At that point there is no
> difference for them if they are up 1 or 2 because
> a last second FG from us beats them either way so
> they go for 2pts to try to make it a 3 pt lead and
> ensure overtime if we kick that FG.
>
> No matter how you slice it, there is an ENOURMOUS
> difference between being up 11 or being up 12
> going into your opponents last two possessions of
> the game.
>
> That's the difference of forcing your opponent to
> score 2 TD's to beat you and taking the FG out of
> their equation.
>
> There is virtually no difference between being up
> 12 or being up 13. It takes two TD's to beat you
> either way and that is a MUCH easier scenario to
> defend against.
>
> Simply put, you kick the extra point. It's a
> no-brainer.
>
> Second game in a row where Sparano made a major
> mistake. Only this time, it didn't cost us. If
> he were a rookie head coach I could let it pass,
> but he's got to do a better job than that.


RESPONSE: By George, I think you've got it.

Phinsfan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He doesn't realize that the PAT puts the FG to
> rest? Even the day after?
>
> That's not a good thing, not good at all.

RESPONSE: Yeah, it's kinda scary. It's kind of like the World Series on Monday night when the guy being taken out begged the Phillies manager to let him stay in because of his fielding ability and the manager (an Ole Fart like me) brushed him off. What happens next? ----a fly ball goes out to the guy who was in the position the player was in and that guy, who he had brought in for hitting, missed the catch resulting in two runs and almost costing the Phillies the series.

You wonder these days.

Ultimately (and this has already been said), I think it's simple:

11 point lead: TD + FG can tie game with 2pt conversion
12 point lead: TD + FG is pointless

Midway through the 4th quarter, how many more possessions are you planning to spot the other team?

It was a dumb decision.