Hmmm...Henning has forgotten more football (probably in the past 24 hours) than I'll ever know.

I guess my take is that there are differing severities of mistakes. If Carey doesn't hold his block as long as he should, but the run goes to the left, it's still a mistake...just not a severely impacting mistake.

It sounds a lot like Sparano and Henning are playing good cop/bad cop.

This is what I like about this coaching staff. Play the best you've got, form a system around the players you've got and do the best you can with them. That is what building a consistent winner is all about.
We are still in the building stage as many here have stated.
If I am Henning, I play Ginn in the best situations that he can help in. And I support him, and don't name names of others that make mistakes.
Ginn mistakes are glaring in the open. So he is taking the heat.

The good thing is we all should know that it is recognized that we need that big play maker and the trifecta will get him.

But I didnt say that stuff Sam. That was Dan Henning.


See the problem here and obvious bad for Ted Ginn is that his mistakes are seen by everone and there definately visible mistakes. But what about mistakes that people have no idea. Example....Cammarrillo, Bess or Hartline have a deep option, pass on it for an in route but if they would have taken the deep route it would have been a TD. We praise the great 12 yard catch but dont realize the WR actually made a mistake and it would and should have been a 40 yard TD pass.

Or is Fasano blocks backside on a sweep, misses the block which would have sprung Ronnie for a TD instead of the 8 yard gain. We praise the 8 yard gain, but never realize a block was missed and it should have been a 65 yard TD.

Or Jake Grove calls a wrong blocking assignment, where if the right one is called we have a long TD instead of the 4 yard first down on a 3rd down. We praise the first down but never realize it should have been a long TD.


We have no idea what happens in the inside of a play. we only see who throws the ball. Who catches it. Who runs the ball. Who tackles.

Its very interesting that 9 players had a worse game as far as "mistakes" go than Ted Ginn did.

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"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
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> But I didnt say that stuff Sam. That was Dan
> Henning.
>


I know you didnt .....Just making conversation. My post might had sounded the wrong way though. I said i know what you mean meaning, i knew the purpose of this post.

I know buddy!

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"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

The problem with some of the examples above Aqua is that Ginn's main job is to catch the ball and he seems to have a hard time doing that, your top example about the 3 WRs making the wrong read and only going for 12 yrds instead of a 40 yrder is that at least they caught the ball in the example. Henning can say all he wants to try and help build up his confidence but unless Teddy boy starts catching some of these catch-able balls he will slowly start losing playing time and probably be gone next year or strickly a return man. Getting #9 money might be to much for a returner but why not have him start focusing on that.

Like I said in another topic, the higher profile position you play, the more criticism/praise you will get.

It comes with the territory, and you either correct it, or find somebody who will execute.

Of course I want to see Ginn streaking down the sideline catching TD passes, but not when he's going to let the ball bounce off of his hands.

I'll be more than happy to eat my words and send a picture of me with my foot in my mouth to his home address if he can pull a 180 and be the playmaker we all want and need him to be.

I never said they actually did that. Im saying those are the *TYPES* of mistakes that we dont see sitting on the couch and on top of that its not our job to break down film. The coaches see *ALL* the mistakes made from a game in the following week. We dont. We see *OBVIOUS* mistakes *DURING* a game ala Ted Ginn dropping passes, tipping passes into the arms of defenders and stuff like that.

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"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

I realize those are only "EXAMPLES" but my point is in most of those examples it is a secondary job that you are citing not that players main job (it is Jake Groves main job to block the guy in front of him and his secondary job to make the right line calls for the defense lined up in front of him, I realize he needs to do both good but he can make all the right line calls he wants but if he cant block he would be getting singled out also), I dont think anyones complaining about Ginn making a wrong read or missing a block, it's the high profile drops when we need it most that's caught everyones attention. I agree with the idea of your point but I just cant let Ginn off the hook that easy, his "main" job is too catch the ball and to me he's failing (I hope he developes but i'm starting to lose hope)

Again, ranking those mistakes that others made vs the ones ginn makes are subjective in nature. Fasano drops a great pass from Ronnie that would have been a first down.. Ricky drops a pass that would have gained 8 yds on the second to final drive of the game.. all mistakes and all glaring.. those 9 other players that made more mistakes than Ginn... at what point in the game where they? How impactful where they? Was it a false start on 1st and 10 while the phins were up 24-3 or was it a dropped/tipped pass that directly contributed to an interception that gave momentum to the other team? Both mistakes, but objectively, which is more important? Would you rather take the guy that gets 4 false starts a game but blocks his ass off or the guy that drops 3 passes a game but can run his ass off?? Subjective in nature and all depend on the scenario. Ginn's seem to come at the most paramount times.

The fact is that Ginn is more consistently making the same mistake of dropping passes at crucial moments. Fasano seems to be doing this as well. There's also an elevated expectation from a supossed #1 receiver... that he should make catches both when the game is on the line as well as just to move the sticks. Ginn seems to be declining more often at doing so.

It's all a matter of trying to count on him when the phins need him at crucial moments. He definitely can stretch the field and blow by any defender speed wise.. but will he catch the ball that hits him in the hands when the game is on the line?? How many times can he fail at that before he no longer can be counted on??

Subjective discussion.

Thats wrong dolphaholic....

Jake Groves main job is too call blocking formations....half the time he doesnt even have a guy lined up in front of him anyways.

So, Henne's main job is to handoff and throw only? NO!

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"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

The center is the QB of the O-line. His job is to make sure they have the right bloacking scheme.

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"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

And as far a a WR goes, on option routes it is their main job to know what coverage is being played and run the correct route.

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"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

I'm not really in an arguing mood Aqua but to me a Centers main job is to block and like I said it's very important to make the right line calls but if it was just that then you would see 130# brainiac centers. But back to the original point I think it could be agreed that alot of guys made some big mistakes in that game especially in the 2nd half and it's probably not fair to throw it all on Ginn but it seems he should be farther along in his developement in his 3rd year then he is. Like I said before I hope he developes and if it takes Henning sticking up for him to help his confidence then im all for it but until I see results im not buying it.

The center is definitely the QB of the o-line. Imagine if that same center botches 3-4 snaps per game and doesn't get the QB the ball? Especially at crucial points during the game? Even though he's great at organizing and directing the O-line for schemes.. how much does he cost in turnovers or fumbles?

Ginn runs decent routes, he's blazing fast, but can't catch a cold if someone sneezed in his mouth. His confidence is clearly shaken and he is faultering at crucial moments.

By the way, I was at the game in the front row and the Refs definitely blew this call. It was agonizing.

Dolphinaholic, Im not trying to argue at all buddy. Just a *civil* discussion!

And your right, Ted Ginn should be waaaaaaayyyyy ahead developmental wise than where he is at. He has underperformed and thats the only way to put it. I cut him slack for a few years bcuz we had *NO* QB to throw him the ball deep (which is basically what he is, a vertical guy). But last week he dropped balls a crucial points that go-to guys dont drop.

But my whole point is, there are alot of mistakes we dont see that the coaches see when breaking down film that could be game-changing mistakes. If Dan Henning is adimant about Ginn being better "mistake" wise than 9 offensive players than that is huge. He made alot of mistakes and if DH is telling me 9 players made more or worse mistakes than we need additional practice.

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"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Agreed.

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"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

One thing that I was saying in my mind when Hartline caught that pass, "If this were Ginn, no way would he be caught."

Hartline is slow indeed to be caught from behind by the tackler given the lead Hartline had.

Of course, it may be the case that he has the hands but Ginn has the speed.

Yep. Exactly what I thought. Ginn would have left them in the dust.

I never really understood why the slant pattern hasnt been used much with Ginn. That was one of his best patterns while in college.

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"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
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> Yep. Exactly what I thought. Ginn would have left
> them in the dust.
>
> I never really understood why the slant pattern
> hasnt been used much with Ginn. That was one of
> his best patterns while in college.

I'm guessing he doesn't run it well in the NFL. In college he wasn't bumped at the LoS. In college he usually caught the ball and ran untouched for a TD. That isn't the case in the NFL. You're gonna get hit!!! Can Ginn handle that? I'm not sure he has so far.

You want Ginn, a guy who wouldn't take a hit for a million dollars, to run slants?

I mean, yeah...it makes sense in X's and O's, but since when has Ginn shown any ability to make a play under pressure?

Ginn runs a slant and all he's thinking about is that safety.