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          Miami makes Block buster Trade............
Miami Dolphins Civilized Discussion :  Phins.com Phorums The fastest message board... ever.
This is a moderated phorum for the CIVILIZED discussion of the Miami Dolphins. In this phorum, there are rules and moderators to make sure you abide by the rules. The moderators for this phorum are JC and Colonel
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Miami makes Block buster Trade............
Date: August 31, 2019 01:36PM

This trade is so big......I'm actually taking time away from this hurricane hunting us at the moment.

2 first rounders , 1 2nd for Tunsil and Stills. We give a 4th, also get another starting Olineman and a special teams stand out.

Wow. Tunsil will be missed but if the right players are picked, the right moves.....a haul like this can make us contenders again......

GO MIAMI!!!

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Re: Miami makes Block buster Trade............
Posted by: Grimey13 ()
Date: August 31, 2019 01:38PM

I was just about to post about this...will miss Tunsil but overall I kind of like it.

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Re: Miami makes Block buster Trade............
Posted by: pafinfan ()
Date: August 31, 2019 02:31PM

Tunsil will hurt but I like the long term potential gain. Can't say he was traded for nothing.

Stills, eh so what.

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Re: Miami makes Block buster Trade............
Posted by: 808phan ()
Date: August 31, 2019 02:39PM

Our O-line will suck even more than it does now but that could put us in position for a high 1st round draft pick by our own doing in 2020. I think we're in for an ugly season but down the road in a couple of years things should be different.

So to me with Fitz being named the starter, he's the sacrificial lamb to take a pounding so Rosen isn't in a worst position than he was in AZ. But the question is how long can Fitz last without a decent left tackle.

As for Stills, I didn't think he'd be around for the season opener after his public comments about Ross being a Trump donor. You don't bite the hand that feeds you for Christ's sake. Pretty stupid of him if you ask me. Would any player in NE get away with that towards Kraft? I think not. With Flores coming from there I didn't think Stills would be here for long and I was right.

So hang in there folks. My fellow Hawaii born Tua Tagovaiola could be coming our way in 2020 unless Indy has a suspiciously horrible season.

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Re: Miami makes Block buster Trade............
Posted by: gnrbaby ()
Date: August 31, 2019 02:44PM

I like this trade. Why? The Clemson QB comes to mind. Also, the obvious cap space benefit, But, the most exciting thing is VALUE picks! We will have 2 first round picks at least and a heap of 2nd rounds. Incredible.

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Re: Miami makes Block buster Trade............
Posted by: Thirteen ()
Date: August 31, 2019 05:35PM

So Tank for Tua is in full effect now. Or Tank for Trevor if they want to wait that long.

I'm not yet sure what I think of this. Obviously the Dolphins need help in a lot of areas, so stock-piling draft picks is a good way to go. When you decide to trade your best player, you should get back a pretty good haul for him, and picking up two firsts and a second and a couple throw-ins for Tunsil (and Stills) looks like a damn good return.

But TCPF hit the nail right on the head with "if the right players are picked, the right moves..." The FO has built up this stock-pile, now they have to do something with it -- something big. I want to be hopeful, excited, etc. but I've been watching the last 20+ years, and that means the best I can do right now is sort of guardedly optimistic. In a year or so, I'd actually like to be stuck denying I ever made this post. We'll see...

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Re: Miami makes Block buster Trade............
Posted by: mizzou15 ()
Date: September 01, 2019 04:56AM

This trade is about the draft picks and the big money we will have for free agents in 2020. We now have a nice big hole at LT. Davenport will be hard to watch at LT. Not sure he will even make the squad. I thought the second year kid from Pitt that we cut looked better than Davenport in the preseason. I think Davenport is a RT at best.

I think picking up Boehm and Isidora (sp?) were smart moves. They both will help make the interior line stronger but we are vulnerable on the left. We do not have a LT on the roster.

We have a young squad, coaches will keep them working hard and motivated. F/O clearing up the books well. Next year we can let Alonzo and Jones move on w/ out carrying much dead money.

I think seeing that they could not bring in Clowney w/ out giving up Tunsil the coaching staff and front office did not like where the team was right now and decided to go w/ the strategic plan, overhauling the roster.

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Re: Miami makes Block buster Trade............
Date: September 01, 2019 05:10AM

Looking back in history this kind of reminds me of the Hershel Walker trade Jimmy Johnson made . The Trade we made with New Orleans for Ricky Williams. Both trades helped those ball clubs become Super bowl champions.we are also predicted to have about $150 million in cap space for the right free agents and rookie signings.The Trick is to pick the right players and that's a tall order . Will be exciting to watch though!

GO MIAMI!!!

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Re: Miami makes Block buster Trade............
Posted by: pafinfan ()
Date: September 01, 2019 05:15AM

Now it appears that they traded Kiko Alonso. If nothing else the next 2 drafts should be entertaining, I hope the long term plan works.

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Re: Miami makes Block buster Trade............
Posted by: jsm08 ()
Date: September 01, 2019 05:55AM

When I heard Tunsil for Clowney I thought that was foolish. We got QB compensation for our LT.

Short term we go from a max 6 win team to a 3 win team. Long term we're set up for success.

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Re: Miami makes Block buster Trade............
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: September 01, 2019 06:11AM

Why do i feel like we now making new england type moves?

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Re: Miami makes Block buster Trade............
Posted by: Fins72 ()
Date: September 01, 2019 07:03AM

What do you all think the over under is on how many games before this offensive line puts Fitzpatrick on IR? Our best lineman now is who? Kilgore? Davis? This will be a historically bad offensive line. Rosen will definitely play this year after Fitzpatrick gets knocked out of the line up, and after he gets hurt, who's next? We may get down to Albert Wilson playing quarterback.

Don't get me wrong, two first rounders and a second is a great haul, but you really have told the team (and particularly the Qcool smiley that is year is basically over before it starts. Not just that you won't be making the playoffs, but that you won't even be competing. I think 0-16 becomes a very real possibility. Ugly is an understatement for what I think is coming. Plus, I really don't have a lot of confidence in Grier making good selections. Remember he's part of the scouting brain trust that made Charles Harris and Devante Parker first round picks.

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Re: Miami makes Block buster Trade............
Date: September 01, 2019 11:02AM

Fins72 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What do you all think the over under is on how
> many games before this offensive line puts
> Fitzpatrick on IR? Our best lineman now is who?
> Kilgore? Davis? This will be a historically bad
> offensive line. Rosen will definitely play this
> year after Fitzpatrick gets knocked out of the
> line up, and after he gets hurt, who's next? We
> may get down to Albert Wilson playing quarterback.
>
>
> Don't get me wrong, two first rounders and a
> second is a great haul, but you really have told
> the team (and particularly the Qcool smiley that is year is
> basically over before it starts. Not just that you
> won't be making the playoffs, but that you won't
> even be competing. I think 0-16 becomes a very
> real possibility. Ugly is an understatement for
> what I think is coming. Plus, I really don't have
> a lot of confidence in Grier making good
> selections. Remember he's part of the scouting
> brain trust that made Charles Harris and Devante
> Parker first round picks.


Stop. All we did is lose a lineman. Stills was a distraction and we have recievers who can fill the bill.Yes Tunsil will hurt. But we gained another starting Olineman in the trade as well. Our defense is more then decent. We have players like Grant and Wilson back. Our Running back stable is so deep we had to cut Liard who had a great camp.

1 Olineman isn't going to make us lose 6 more games.

GO MIAMI!!!

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Re: Miami makes Block buster Trade............
Posted by: colonel ()
Date: September 01, 2019 11:44AM

I didn't know we cut Laird. I thought he was still on the 53 man roster.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/01/2019 11:57AM by colonel.

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Re: Miami makes Block buster Trade............
Posted by: Fins72 ()
Date: September 01, 2019 12:14PM

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fins72 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What do you all think the over under is on how
> > many games before this offensive line puts
> > Fitzpatrick on IR? Our best lineman now is who?
> > Kilgore? Davis? This will be a historically bad
> > offensive line. Rosen will definitely play this
> > year after Fitzpatrick gets knocked out of the
> > line up, and after he gets hurt, who's next? We
> > may get down to Albert Wilson playing
> quarterback.
> >
> >
> > Don't get me wrong, two first rounders and a
> > second is a great haul, but you really have
> told
> > the team (and particularly the Qcool smiley that is year
> is
> > basically over before it starts. Not just that
> you
> > won't be making the playoffs, but that you
> won't
> > even be competing. I think 0-16 becomes a very
> > real possibility. Ugly is an understatement for
> > what I think is coming. Plus, I really don't
> have
> > a lot of confidence in Grier making good
> > selections. Remember he's part of the scouting
> > brain trust that made Charles Harris and
> Devante
> > Parker first round picks.
>
>
> Stop. All we did is lose a lineman. Stills was a
> distraction and we have recievers who can fill the
> bill.Yes Tunsil will hurt. But we gained another
> starting Olineman in the trade as well. Our
> defense is more then decent. We have players like
> Grant and Wilson back. Our Running back stable is
> so deep we had to cut Liard who had a great camp.
>
> 1 Olineman isn't going to make us lose 6 more
> games.

The offensive lineman we got was one of the worst tackles last year. He'll start because we don't have any other options and not because he's even average. Look, I'm not saying the deal is bad I'm simply saying Flores, Grier et al can't piss down my leg and tell me it's raining. This team is built to lose this year.If they draft well with the picks they got, it'll be a great result. Given Grier's track record with first round picks, I'm just saying it's far from a certain thing.

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Re: Miami makes Block buster Trade............
Date: September 01, 2019 02:12PM

I apologize about Liard. I'm currently on overtime shifts for Hurricane Doran and just repeated bad news from someone. Guy played great , we usually cut people like him so that's a good sign.

GO MIAMI!!!

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Re: Miami makes Block buster Trade............
Posted by: colonel ()
Date: September 01, 2019 03:32PM

TC, lots of folks working hard to prepare for this monster now kicking butt in the Bahamas. Glad to read your post about Laird and happy that he made the team. He is multi-faceted, and I expect he'll come in handy for both QBs. Hopefully Dorian will turn north tomorrow and not come ashore in Florida...it would be great if it turned north and then north east and missed the US entirely.

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Re: Miami makes Block buster Trade............
Posted by: tsstamper ()
Date: September 01, 2019 10:06PM

Having had, now, a short bit of time to think thru this a bit, I find myself more ok with the trade than not. The number of players, picks salary (present & future) makes the trade a bit difficult to analyze, but the best I can sort of boil it down to is 2 1sts and a 2nd for Tunsil...the rest were machinations of a deal that sees us lose Stills' talent (which I've always appreciated) and salary in the most cap-friendly manner, with my thought being that he likely wasn't going to survive into the 2019 season with us, pending health of the overall WR corps.

I know context is a huge part of any scenario, but I will say that if it were the Phins giving up that kind of draft capital for Tunsil, I'd probably be pretty upset...claiming things that I believe to be true, like "filling the OL with 1st round talent doesn't make it a good OL...we've tried that" and "there are only a small handful of players - especially non-QB players - that can make a trade like this worth it". I do think HOU is getting a really good and improving young LT.

If we look at how the Patriots do things - and, again, context is huge...they have a top QB and 20 yrs in the system - they seem to dedicate their salary cap to QB first, then higher-end defensive players either in the secondary or those that are a great fit in the system that brings QB pressure systematically. They do have a couple of OL players in their top cap # contracts (2019). But, in both of those cases, the following is true:
(1) they were drafted in the 4th & 5th rounds
(2) they were extended for relatively reasonable amounts prior to the end of their contracts, having, therefore earned the extensions
(3) although they're in the top 10 of Patriots cap # contracts for 2019, Shaq Masons's is the 9th highest among RG and Marcus Cannon's is 12th.
The way they handled their own 1st-round LT who was set to become the league's highest paid? First, they extended him once prior to his rookie contract expiring...then let him go in FA where he did become the highest paid LT at the time, and they recouped a high compensatory pick.

Considering this, I think trading Tunsil was not only obviously a huge draft windfall, but also significantly about team (and therefore salary/cap resources) architecture. They let Ju'wan James go in FA, and he is currently the 2nd-highest paid RT in the league. My guess is that if Tunsil plays like he likely will, he has a decent chance to become the highest paid OL in the history of the league. They were both parts of an OL that ranked near the bottom of the league.
Right or wrong as a strategy (we'll see), I don't think the Phins were going to pay those two contracts to those two players in successive years.

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Re: Miami makes Block buster Trade............
Date: September 02, 2019 04:59AM

Just heard (but I confirmed it this time) DOLPHINS RELEASE LONG SNAPPER JOHN DENNEY........... wow. If anything signals change that's it .Might be just a contract thing......or not.

GO MIAMI!!!

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Re: Miami makes Block buster Trade............
Posted by: 808phan ()
Date: September 02, 2019 06:39AM

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just heard (but I confirmed it this time) DOLPHINS
> RELEASE LONG SNAPPER JOHN DENNEY........... wow.
> If anything signals change that's it .Might be
> just a contract thing......or not.


Full rebuild mode in effect.

And like you said, it's what Grier does with the stockpile of draft picks that will ultimately matter. I know NE has a better eye for talent in every position than we do.

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Re: Miami makes Block buster Trade............
Posted by: Fins72 ()
Date: September 02, 2019 06:50AM

Vincent Taylor cut. Honestly, I thought he was our best DT last year. Young and with a ton of upside. Yes, I know he was supposedly not a scheme fit, but still. Who drafted Taylor again. Oh yes, Grier.

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Re: Miami makes Block buster Trade............
Posted by: NJ Dolfan ()
Date: September 02, 2019 10:25AM

I was surprised at the Taylor cut as well... There has to be something behind the scenes on that one.

The article by Dave Hyde mades a good point too. With us in full blown rebuild mode, why not move Howard? He is a young pro bowler at a primary position locked down in a reasonable contract for the next several years. Why pay him his contract when we won't potentially be a winner for a few years (say 2+). I think we could get another 1st rounder, ifnot a little more for him.

If we are going to suck... go all the way. If not, then we should have kept LT.

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Re: Miami makes Block buster Trade............
Posted by: Fins72 ()
Date: September 02, 2019 11:19AM

NJ Dolfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> If we are going to suck... go all the way. If
> not, then we should have kept LT.

Oh I think we've gone all the way sucking wise. With or without Howard, no exaggeration, this might be the worst roster I've ever seen.

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Re: Miami makes Block buster Trade............
Date: September 02, 2019 11:20AM

I'm guessing no one wanted to give what they were willing to give Tunsil for Howard or we probably would move him.

That deal was just too good to pass up.

GO MIAMI!!!

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Re: Miami makes Block buster Trade............
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: September 02, 2019 01:29PM

Do some of you think tunsil was going to make a difference?
As far as still so long....receiver is the most talented positionon this team.

Our coach is a genius...nobody is dumb enough to believe we make playoffs if we still had tunsil

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Re: Miami makes Block buster Trade............
Posted by: colonel ()
Date: September 02, 2019 02:20PM

Most losses for the entire NFL this season? Naw, I don't think so. One win is likely, 2 wins possibly, 3 wins there's a chance, but 4, that might be stretching it a bit. Flores is revamping the team.

Brian Flores is a leader not like "what's his name" who is the HC of the Jets. Flores will out coach that guy when they meet and the youthful Dolphins will take at least one game from the Jets. Flores is a great fit for our team and will pull things together talent wise.

3-13 this year; 10-6 next year and 11-5 the following year as a true play off contender. That's my prediction. Flores is going to turn it around. thumbs up

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Re: Miami makes Block buster Trade............
Posted by: Fins72 ()
Date: September 02, 2019 04:20PM

I hope you're right Colonel but it'll take more than Flores. Grier has to make the right picks. I'm not confident in his judgement. His past picks don't inspire much hope. It's why I wanted a new GM and not just a new head coach.I hope I'm wrong about him.

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Re: Miami makes Block buster Trade............
Posted by: JC ()
Date: September 02, 2019 07:03PM

I'm a firm believer in having a solid OL (RIP Jim Langer!) but I still like the trade.

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Re: Miami makes Block buster Trade............
Date: September 03, 2019 07:21AM

Heres the starting Oline for Sunday:




LT 00 Davanport Jullie
LG 63 Deiter, Michael 19/3
C 67 KILGORE, DANIEL T/SF
RG 62 Calhoun, Deion CF19
RT 77 Davis, Jesse

This will be a shit show. But I dont think Tunsil would have made that big a difference . They just would have blitzed the opposite side.

GO MIAMI!!!

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Re: Miami makes Block buster Trade............
Posted by: astro34 ()
Date: September 03, 2019 09:35AM

I loved the trade. Yes, it will hurt this year but essentially makes certain we can not mess up and win vary many games this year. Thus making a high draft pick a certainty. We kind have ripped the proverbial band-aid off.

Tons of draft picks and lots of money to work with is the only way we could right this ship.

And BTW.... someone posted sounds like we are doing things like the Patriots.... well our coach is a smart guy and they are a smart franchise so connect the dots.

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