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          Treasure, you’re making a difference
Miami Dolphins Civilized Discussion :  Phins.com Phorums The fastest message board... ever.
This is a moderated phorum for the CIVILIZED discussion of the Miami Dolphins. In this phorum, there are rules and moderators to make sure you abide by the rules. The moderators for this phorum are JC and Colonel
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Treasure, you’re making a difference
Posted by: Panteraize ()
Date: October 23, 2017 07:05PM

Treasure, I’m bummed for you that you didn’t get to watch our Dolphins smash the Jets in spectacular fashion due to your boycott of the games.

Ironically, you are helping their cause in an indirect way. The more NFL fans that feel as you do and follow your lead by not watching the games, the more you hurt the teams and the league financially. So let’s follow the logic of cause and effect and cost/benefit analysis.

In response to fans like you hurting the team and the league’s bottom line, the teams and the league have to do something to address the problem. Here are their options;

1. Break out the whips and learn them boys a lesson not to mess with the owners money. Fine the players, suspend them, release them, come down hard on all of them.
Result: The league does this and it blows up in their face. The players uniformly feel attacked and ostracized and become emboldened feeling as though their rights and freedoms and societal concerns are being attacked. The players could strike and/or engage in some other major unified protest that could turn into a complete mess. The league does not want this. This could be even worse for business any number of different ways. The league needs the players to play.

2. The league sees their bottom line being affected by fans refusing to watch the games in protest of the players’ protest and decides to do something productive to help address the concerns of their players. Developing partnerships with law enforcement groups and organizations that work towards improving relations between police and African Americans and minorities in urban communities. They invest money and effort towards programs that work towards increasing transparency in policing operations on a grassroots level and involving urban communities in the policing of their neighborhoods in a cooperative manner, with both groups working together.
Result: The players feel like the league understands their concerns and supports their desire to feel equally protected and less marginalized. Creating such partnerships can only help the situation and possibly some good comes of it for both African Americans and the committed members of law enforcement that serve their communities.

The 2nd option is much more likely. The 2nd option poses less risk for the NFL. Treasure, you and other fans that are doing what you’re doing in boycotting the NFL are showing the league, the players, and the rest of the world that the players’ protests are having a huge impact. If you and others like you did nothing and continued watching, the league and the teams would have no reason to do anything at all. But your protest will likely bring about the exact type of change that Colin Kapearnick and all the players who followed his lead want to see in the world. Treasure, without you, none of this would be possible.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/23/2017 07:11PM by Panteraize.

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Re: Treasure, you’re making a difference
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: October 23, 2017 08:56PM

Brilliant.

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Re: Treasure, you’re making a difference
Posted by: toko34 ()
Date: October 24, 2017 12:04AM

hah- well my friend, Treasure, I really tried to present the other case too...The one in where these protesting players bring to light a legitimate concern and we should be nodding along with them and telling them ok we see you and thank you.

What I didn't add is the track record of how much the current President has come to despise the NFL. Maybe, just maybe his antics coincide with his history of pursuing legal action against the NFL and losing?

It goes way back towards when he was a USFL owner. Trump adored the attention the USFL brought him. What he couldn't comprehend is why his fledgling league could not compete against the NFL in terms of ratings and advertising dollars. So on his first attempt and correcting this wrong he saw in the world, he went and tried to lure the best NFL players to his league. This competition escalated NFL salaries significantly.

The USFL began as a Spring league to somewhat of a success at first. However, Mr. Trump saw the play in Spring as some kind of admission to his league being the little brother to the NFL and met with his fellow USFL owners to force the USFL games to play in the fall, to directly compete with what he saw was an equivalent league - the NFL. At that time, Mr. Trump also went and filed a lawsuit against the NFL for being a monopoly. This 2 pronged attack was believed to be a possible inroad towards establishing the USFL as a solid competitor to the NFL...Fine.

The result of the lawsuit was promising at first for Trump and co. until the verdict was read. As a result of the lawsuit, Trump won a total of ONE dollar in damages. The NFL then brought out its media guns and destroyed the USFL, calling the USFL "the one dollar league." Public perception of the USFL sank like a rock and the USFL never recovered, the league folded.

OK fast forward to 2014...the Buffalo Bills are for sale. Trump was offered to make the first bid on the team, where the past owners were expecting 1 billion plus..Trump offered 900,000. The Bills eventually get sold for 1.4 Billion. Trump loses the bid so Trump goes on twitter and posts these comments as a result: "Wow. @nfl ratings are down big league. Glad I didn't get the Bills. Rather be lucky than good."//"Even though I refused to pay a ridiculous price for the Buffalo Bills, I would have produced a winner. Now that won’t happen."

Trump is a man that despises losing..which is ok, but nowadays, wouldn't logic dictate that he is fanning the tiny flame of what he sees wrong in the NFL to get revenge on a league and organization that has beaten him consistently? I heard him in a recent speech about people allegedly disrespecting the flag...and he said it again ----> "When the NFL ratings are down massively, massively. The NFL ratings are down massively. !"


My Rx: Go back to the games Treasure, ignore 45.

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Re: Treasure, you’re making a difference
Posted by: jsm08 ()
Date: October 24, 2017 01:53AM

I think viewership and attendance are down because the product on the field his pretty bad and it's tough to justify the costs of taking a family to a game.

The protests are built on a false narrative perpetuated by the media. Anyone that compares NFL players to slaves is doing nothing more than fan the flames.

And before you know it if you don't support the kneeling dummies you'll be labeled a racist. The very reason Trump got elected.

Employers have rules. If you don't like them find another job. They're not looking for equal rights, they're looking for special rights. When dealing with a generation that was rewarded for mediocrity and suffered no consequences for poor behavior this is what you get. This is what a PC world looks like when they grow up.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2017 08:49AM by jsm08.

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Re: Treasure, you’re making a difference
Posted by: jsm08 ()
Date: October 24, 2017 03:04AM

Case in point...4 soldiers killed in Niger. 3 white 1 black.

Who are we hearing about on a daily basis?

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Re: Treasure, you’re making a difference
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: October 24, 2017 04:32AM

It isnt just costing the owners money, the new TV contracts will be much smaller then they would have been before all this.. The salary cap and money the players are paid is tied to those TV contracts.. It is a lose, lose for everybody, owners and players alike... I hope no one is foolish enough to think the owners plan on taking this financial hit alone... I feel bad for the players that stand for the flag that will make less money in the future then they would have....

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

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Re: Treasure, you’re making a difference
Posted by: Panteraize ()
Date: October 24, 2017 07:24AM

I understand how you feel jsm, but this conversation is not about feelings, it was meant to be a cold hard and objective discussion of what a “company” stuck in this situation has to do to protect its product. The National Football League has employees that possess a skill set that statistically .000005 percent of the US population possess. They can’t fire their 1,700 “employees” and expect business to improve. They need to get the players to stop protesting. The only financially sound way to do this is to find a way to address their employees concerns contingent on an agreement that the protests will stop after they do so. Once that happens, protests will end on both sides and the league won’t be taking losses from this issue. If there are other reasons viewership is down (like poor play for example) they’ll have to address that separately.

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Re: Treasure, you’re making a difference
Date: October 24, 2017 07:50AM

Panterize (TY!) and Toko I appreciate both your points of view.

I side heavily with one of course......but I really appreciate different comments because the BIGGEST problem I see today is the non tolerance for other points of view. The need to completely shut down and eliminate opposite points of view is really the worst thing that could happen.

Toko This started way before 45 was even in office in the summer of 2016 with this racist POS Kapernick and even more so a few years before that when 44 politicized the absolutely 100% justified killing of a Felon trying to kill a Police officer in Ferguson, Missouri. Since that time Police officers have been unfairly judged and in some cases even executed.

I'm not watching this year.....I'm sacrificing something I love because its wrong. 100% wrong to think that Police officers go to work and try to kill people. That narrative unifies a base of people to believe they are targeted and are victims. That brings votes. Nothing else. Been going on for years. I get it. Its the way the left works and you know what? The right isn't much better.

I'm not trying to say anyone is right or wrong. Everyone feels a certain way due to past experiences. I get that 100%. I've had some bad run ins with Police myself.

Heres my issue. You cant even turn on a sitcom comedy without Politics Now adays. Talk shows, comedy sketches...you name it. Why cant we have Sunday sacred? Off limits? Politics free?

I really dig this place . I'm sure many here are all races, politic affiliations, Jobs, Vets, and so on.Might even be a homosexual or two here. I dont care. Here we are ALL DOLPHINS fans. I really dig that. I deal with so much shit on a daily basis one of my favorite things is to come here and break SamSam's balls. spinning smiley sticking its tongue out (I'm gonna buy you a beer one day friend)smileys with beer

These players dont get to voice their crap on my dollar anymore. Especially a Person like Kapernick who calls Police Murderers,thugs and Pigs. Who wears Communist Castro shirts to a Miami Game. I'm supposed to PAY FOR THAT? You know how long it takes me to make $5-600 !? LOL.....no.

So while I appriciate your point of view Toko.......believe me this has NOTHING to do with 45. NOTHING. He only backed us and thats what great leaders do. Others divide.

I thought about leaving here and then said to myself why? You people have been my friends for too long and have done nothing. I'll live through ya all this season and regroup around the draft.
The NFL will not get 1 dime of my money or any cop I know. And thats alot.


thumbs up

GO MIAMI!!!

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Re: Treasure, you’re making a difference
Posted by: Grimey13 ()
Date: October 24, 2017 07:52AM

I loved your first post. I do have to say that you may have wanted it to be an objective discussion (which I think can be part of it) I do disagree that feelings cannot be involved.

It is about feelings. The way the players feel and the way the fans feel. Unfortunately, I do not think this will ever be 100% solved. No matter any protest, no matter any changes there will always be that 1% of bad people that are still shoved to the top of the list by the media.

The division in this country is pretty sickening and only being elevated daily by the poor excuse for journalism and celebrities who actually think we care about their feelings. This is occurring on both sides.

Everyone has their own personal feelings and they don't like being told they are wrong. It is a vicious circle that is killing this once great nation. Everyone cannot be happy at the same time. This is the way the world is right now with instant access to everything and video cameras everywhere.

Do you really think things have gotten worse or is it the fact that it is more readily available to you? Technology is a SOB!!!!

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Re: Treasure, you’re making a difference
Date: October 24, 2017 08:12AM


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Re: Treasure, you’re making a difference
Posted by: jsm08 ()
Date: October 24, 2017 08:51AM

They've addressed the anthem issue by not showing it any more.

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Re: Treasure, you’re making a difference
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: October 24, 2017 10:02AM


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Re: Treasure, you’re making a difference
Posted by: Grimey13 ()
Date: October 24, 2017 10:17AM

ChyrenB you do know that these types of calls don't just happen. They are planned for a future date that both parties can be present for. You are given notice when the call is going to happen.

And you should know that words can come out differently depending on the way you mean them. If you truly think he meant it as in saying "You knew you had a chance to die So I don't pity you" then you my friend are no better than that statement jsm posted.

Anything Trump says is twisted to sound horrible. Does he help his cause??? Hell no. The man is an idiot when it comes to him wanting to always be right and him always winning. But at least he has the balls to stand up for his country and make America a puppet no more.

I don't care that the soldier was black because he was a soldier. I was in the USMC and we were all green. No color was involved. Racism has no meaning anymore because of the liberal agenda and the media. If you disagree you are a racist.

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Re: Treasure, you’re making a difference
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: October 24, 2017 10:18AM

Now the other post I addressed was just funny but besides being stupid, this post is offensive. The thoughts behind it are the very foundation of all racist thought. It is the ole "They're always complaining," or
"They get treated better because" or
"They deserve their worse treatment because" or
anything but it's always "them" "them" "them".

Prior to this point, yes the news revealed the race of the mother but neither the media, the woman involved herself, nor the Congresswoman, NOR EVEN THE TRUMP WHITE HOUSE ITSELF, made the question to be one about race.

But you did, JSM08. Hey News Flash, this isn't 1930 anymore. A disproportionate number of the players in the NFL are Black. If you have such a problem with Blacks, why do you follow pro football?

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Re: Treasure, you’re making a difference
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: October 24, 2017 10:29AM

Grimey, I was typing the response to JSM08 when you posted. I posted then read yours.

What Trump was TRYING to say was that "I know nothing can bring him back and that is the only thing that will really make you feel better but at least you can comfort yourself in the knowledge that he was doing something that he wanted to do."

(I just typed those words right now off my head).

But he said it in a way that came off callous and flip. Like, "Hey, what the hell, he knew what he was getting into."

IF Obama had said that a lot of you people would have been going nuts!

If Bush had said it, you guys would be calling him an idiot.

But all Trump has done is sold White people a bill of goods that he is here to restore White Supremacy. Hey, stupid! He's a billionaire.

He is the REASON that you are struggling financially. Him. Not the Blacks. Not the Mexicans. Not even the Asians.

America never stopped being great. But in order for Billionaires to survive, they have to convince the middle class, that the middle class belongs on the side of the rich and not the poor.

They have apparently convinced you and there is nothing to do but feel sorry for you.

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Re: Treasure, you’re making a difference
Posted by: toko34 ()
Date: October 24, 2017 12:07PM

to Treasure: Acknowledged. Looking back at the first moment Kaepernick decided to do what he did...he completely blew it. I do however give him credit for listening to what he did wrong and then correcting it. The damage, however- it is done. This will be a point of contention between two viewpoints that won't be resolved by dialogue or anything.

I wish you could have seen what we, the people that are still watching...saw. That is an exciting Dolphin come from behind almost miracle victory on a bone-headed Jest play. They've done it to us so many times, its nice to be on the W side for once.

The networks have decided to resolve the anthem issue by not showing it anymore. Kind of an ostrichy head in the sand approach by my opinion, but hell it could work until this defuses. Hope you get to see the games next season T! Take care.

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Re: Treasure, you’re making a difference
Posted by: Grimey13 ()
Date: October 24, 2017 01:21PM

"You people" hahahahaha...imagine me saying that in a post to you.

Actually I for one would not of cared if Obama had said it that way to anyone because I don't twist words around to make them sound like they arent.

Did you actually get access to this phone call and hear the emotion preset? Did you hear all the words said? I have seen interviews with the other Gold Star parents from this attack and they said the call from Trump was emotional and full of empathy but I guess that was because of their whiteness...

I also am not struggling financially at all honestly. I have a government job that pays me very well, I am a veteran, I own 2 houses, have a 401k that is only growing everyday. I believe I have done well for myself and you know I did all this on my own.

Like I said brother, racism doesn't exist to me anymore. It means nothing. The white supremacy thing really made me giggle though.

You do realize the division your savior caused as well right? And Bush was an idiot...but he cared about the country and the military. I did like some of what Obama did but to not think he did other things because of being half black is idiotic. No president is perfect but from day one Trump was never given a shot.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2017 01:22PM by Grimey13.

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Re: Treasure, you’re making a difference
Posted by: Fins72 ()
Date: October 24, 2017 02:30PM

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Grimey, I was typing the response to JSM08 when
> you posted. I posted then read yours.
>
> What Trump was TRYING to say was that "I know
> nothing can bring him back and that is the only
> thing that will really make you feel better but at
> least you can comfort yourself in the knowledge
> that he was doing something that he wanted to
> do."
>
> (I just typed those words right now off my head).
>
> But he said it in a way that came off callous and
> flip. Like, "Hey, what the hell, he knew what he
> was getting into."
>
> IF Obama had said that a lot of you people would
> have been going nuts!
>
> If Bush had said it, you guys would be calling him
> an idiot.
>
> But all Trump has done is sold White people a bill
> of goods that he is here to restore White
> Supremacy. Hey, stupid! He's a billionaire.
>
> He is the REASON that you are struggling
> financially. Him. Not the Blacks. Not the
> Mexicans. Not even the Asians.
>
> America never stopped being great. But in order
> for Billionaires to survive, they have to convince
> the middle class, that the middle class belongs on
> the side of the rich and not the poor.
>
> They have apparently convinced you and there is
> nothing to do but feel sorry for you.



ChyrenB,

Excellent post. I try not to get into political discussions because nowadays, it's all to often a recipe for name calling and intolerance of the other person's opinion. At the end of the day, we all have our own opinions. Mine is no better or worse than anyone else's. I don't pretend to know how black citizens feel in this country but I do know that those who say racism is a thing of the past are fooling themselves. I ask myself if I, as a white person have any idea of what a young black male is thinking or feeling when he sees police lights in his rear view mirror. If I see them, my first thoughts are, damn, I don't want a ticket.I think I'd be very disingenuous if I said that a black male in this country has no reason to think anything more than that. I sympathize with the players who are genuinely wanting to bring attention to the disparate treatment that black citizens get all too often. I don't think that it's disrespecting the flag because I don't think what they're trying to do has anything at all to do with the flag. Would I stand? Yes. Do I feel that I have the right or the moral standing to insist that they do? No, I don't. In my view, politicians on both sides of the aisle are guilty of championing the causes of those who make contributions to them and their party. Senator McCain once said that politics would remain compromised until the money is taken out of it. He was right then, and he's right now. I watch football because it's one of the few things in my life that I can do not because I have to, but because I want to. No one, not Trump, not the players, not people who are boycotting the game will take that away from me. I think that it would make an abundance of sense for those that are so offended by the kneeling actually listen to why the players are kneeling. If they disagree, so be it. But at least they would understand what the reason behind it is. It makes no sense to me that the players are doing it just to piss off a segment of society.

With that said, my only future posts will relate to the Dolphins and my hope that they'll win some games in the future that don't come down to the last second. These nail biters are taking a huge toll on my nerves.

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Re: Treasure, you’re making a difference
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: October 24, 2017 02:47PM


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Re: Treasure, you’re making a difference
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: October 24, 2017 03:05PM


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Re: Treasure, you’re making a difference
Posted by: Grimey13 ()
Date: October 24, 2017 03:23PM

I knew exactly what you meant but I wanted you to see what it was like to have your words taken out of context. Easy to flip it and make you look like some a$$ that I know you aren't.

I was not the one that brought race into this post. I just merely stated my opinions and was labeled as a Trump supporter or as you would call it a white supremacist. Let's hope my wife doesn't think that. She may divorce me.

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Re: Treasure, you’re making a difference
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: October 24, 2017 03:44PM

LOL. Whether she is Black or White, she should divorce you if you are a Trump supporter. Hee hee hee. Just kidding.

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Re: Treasure, you’re making a difference
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: October 24, 2017 03:51PM

Hey, folks. Let me provide a little context. You know what was the most fun I've had in life?? Being a 3 year old and wallowing in my Granddaddy's pig pen in HOPE, ARKANSAS.

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Re: Treasure, you’re making a difference
Posted by: Grimey13 ()
Date: October 24, 2017 03:56PM

That hurt chyren. She would then have to divorce herself as well.

I would support Hillary if she had won. I was horrible at math in school...division was the worst. Sorry for the horrible joke. I am not as hateful as you may think my friend.

I just think he gets a horribly bad rap. I have said he does stupid things and says stupid things but honestly think he has great intentions for this country. He needs to leave his ego at the door and just learn to apoligize and move on.

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Re: Treasure, you’re making a difference
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: October 24, 2017 04:50PM


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Re: Treasure, you’re making a difference
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: October 24, 2017 05:13PM

Grimey13 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That hurt chyren. She would then have to divorce
> herself as well.
>
>

confused smileyconfused smileyconfused smiley

Is she real? I mean existing on this plane of reality.

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Re: Treasure, you’re making a difference
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: October 24, 2017 05:17PM

Double post deleted.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2017 05:20PM by ChyrenB.

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Re: Treasure, you’re making a difference
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: October 24, 2017 05:45PM


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Re: Treasure, you’re making a difference
Date: October 24, 2017 06:17PM

I have no problem voting for a woman. But as you will soon find out......The Clintons are the most corrupt politicians to ever walk the earth. And that's sating alot.

The whole Trump Soldier thing is the most disgusting attempt to make him look bad. That poor woman was in a car surrounded by Trump haters that have vowed to get him at all costs. They turned something so innocent into something I didn't think even the left was capable of.
THIS is the kind of stuff that people see right through even though the media is pushing it 24/7 and it makes Trump stronger.

And of course their are more people in Urban New York city/L.A. and Chicago. So the popular vote does not represent ALL of America. Its Genius that our Fore Fathers had that kind of insight. The electorate all keeps the Dems from stacking the deck with tons of minorities/illegals/even Felons they wanted to vote. The way the Left has been playing this I can see Trump being elected with 400 Electoral votes next time if he is given a fair shake to lower taxes and re build the health care system.

My 401K is earning 19.76 % this year!!! Thank You 45!!

God Bless America......and that includes the Dolphins ! Keep winning.....thumbs up

GO MIAMI!!!

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Re: Treasure, you’re making a difference
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: October 24, 2017 08:32PM


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