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          Defense?
Miami Dolphins Civilized Discussion :  Phins.com Phorums The fastest message board... ever.
This is a moderated phorum for the CIVILIZED discussion of the Miami Dolphins. In this phorum, there are rules and moderators to make sure you abide by the rules. The moderators for this phorum are JC and Colonel
Defense?
Posted by: steviec13 ()
Date: April 30, 2016 01:50PM

I am puzzled how out of 8 picks, we only drafted 2 defensive players.
We traded away 1 defensive player (Taylor)

Where is the future of our pass rush?

We haven't drafted a linebacker in 2 years. Our linebackers SUCK!

Truly disappointed they didn't draft Scoobie wright or Striker!

We need help at linebacker!

Our defense is only going to get worse.

Thoughts?

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Re: Defense?
Posted by: montequi ()
Date: April 30, 2016 01:57PM

You got it!! Our biggest weakness last year was Defense, and this after mortgaging the franchise on Suh. Now what are we left with??

If this staff thinks they are really going to "coach our guys up" to playing better than they did last year, I have a feeling they are going to be sadly mistaken. Our LB corps hasn't been even adequate for years, and I blame that on the move to a 4-3 defense. Guys have been forced to play out of their natural and familiar positions, and we haven't had a decent MLB since Zach Thomas. You just can't run an effective 4-3 without a solid MLB!!

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Re: Defense?
Posted by: jlyell13 ()
Date: April 30, 2016 02:33PM

Dion Jordan?

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Re: Defense?
Posted by: mizzou15 ()
Date: April 30, 2016 03:28PM

I am concerned that BUFF & NE drafts will keep them ahead of us. BUFF really beefed up their D.

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Re: Defense?
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: April 30, 2016 04:54PM

I think they feel like the swapping picks with Philly, was part of the draft. And therefore the FO looks at Byron Maxwell and Kiko Alonso as being part of the draft. So they got 4 defensive guys "out of the draft", hopefully 3 starters on defense. So they think they addressed defense... We shall see....

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

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Re: Defense?
Posted by: jlyell13 ()
Date: April 30, 2016 05:08PM

Jordan rumored to be working out with Alonzo

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Re: Defense?
Posted by: steviec13 ()
Date: April 30, 2016 06:55PM

We need linebackers and young pass rushers

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Re: Defense?
Posted by: thegreathoo ()
Date: April 30, 2016 07:38PM

I dont get the Jamar trade. Maybe he was unhappy and wants a chance to start. Jamar is a good ground and press guy. He doesnt have much of air game, which makes him best suited for nickel.
Still, I do not see the value in trading him for garbage. I didnt like the Will Davis trade last year either. Will was an athletic corner. Traded him for peanuts. I dont see the value in that.

As far as the defense, they seem very content with the roster.
We have good edges. The depth is an issue.
We added Kiko to the LB corp, so there is some improvement there.
DBs are improved, they got Maxwell and Howard, and Isa at S.
I would've liked to see a LB drafted, Jack was there for the taking, and a DE. But, they seem content.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/30/2016 07:39PM by thegreathoo.

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Re: Defense?
Posted by: dolphaholic ()
Date: April 30, 2016 07:43PM

How do you figure Jack was "there for the taking"?

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Re: Defense?
Posted by: thegreathoo ()
Date: April 30, 2016 07:52PM

Jack was available to us.

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Re: Defense?
Posted by: jlyell13 ()
Date: April 30, 2016 08:07PM

Taylor and Allen were both high pick underachievers. maxwell, Howard, Lippett, McCain, and Lucas will be upgrades

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Re: Defense?
Posted by: dolphaholic ()
Date: May 01, 2016 12:40AM

thegreathoo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jack was available to us.


So you wanted us to pass on a consensus top 5 pick at 13 for an injured LB that went in the second round......troll, troll, troll the boat.......eye rolling smiley

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Re: Defense?
Posted by: JoeFootball ()
Date: May 01, 2016 06:32AM

thegreathoo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I dont get the Jamar trade. Maybe he was unhappy
> and wants a chance to start. Jamar is a good
> ground and press guy. He doesnt have much of air
> game, which makes him best suited for nickel.

He was going to be cut anyway so...He was never good ant anything and got benched and outplayed in favor of a guy who was a college WR. People fall in love with 40 times and don't measure football IQ (Ireland). Enough said.

> Still, I do not see the value in trading him for
> garbage. I didnt like the Will Davis trade last
> year either. Will was an athletic corner. Traded
> him for peanuts. I dont see the value in that.

And what did Will Davis do last year in his 3rd year?

>
> As far as the defense, they seem very content with
> the roster.
> We have good edges. The depth is an issue.
> We added Kiko to the LB corp, so there is some
> improvement there.
> DBs are improved, they got Maxwell and Howard, and
> Isa at S.
> I would've liked to see a LB drafted, Jack was
> there for the taking, and a DE. But, they seem
> content.

They tried to move up for Jack and ended up with Howard.

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Re: Defense?
Posted by: thegreathoo ()
Date: May 01, 2016 06:57AM


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Re: Defense?
Posted by: JoeFootball ()
Date: May 01, 2016 07:02AM


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Re: Defense?
Posted by: captkoi ()
Date: May 01, 2016 12:04PM

thegreathoo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dolphaholic Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> So you wanted us to pass on a consensus top 5 pick
> at 13 for an injured LB that went in the second
> round......troll, troll, troll the boat.......eye rolling smiley
>
>
> 1. No. I wanted us to draft the BEST player
> available, and that was Myles Jack. Myles Jack
> was also a consensus top 5 pick.
>
> 2. Myles Jack is a clean prospect too. We drafted
> a knuckle head, with all kinds of concerns, plus
> injury concerns because every player has injury
> concerns once the training and season starts.
>
> 3. We have a log jam at tackle but not so at LB,
> so LB was a bigger need too.
>
> 4. A board, or valuation, where a T like Tunsil is
> ranked higher than Myles Jack is fkd up. It is
> the same board that would pick Joe Thomas over Ray
> Lewis, or even Sean Lee. It makes 0 sense!

********************************************************

Miami had Tunsel as their number two guy on the board. I'm not aware of who they had at number one.

True, Jack was a consensus top 5 pick who got picked at the top of the second round. His knee and his declaration of possibly needing micro-surgery knocked him out of the first.

You mention Tunsel has injury concerns. Well, as I said (above) Jack's are more of a concern. How long can Jack's knee hold up? Tunsel's "knucklehead" concerns don't mean much in the realm of things. College stuff. Miami just has to keep an eye on him. My only concern for Tunsel are his injuries. However, his isn't as serious as Jack's.

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Re: Defense?
Posted by: montequi ()
Date: May 01, 2016 12:30PM

> 4. A board, or valuation, where a T like Tunsil is
> ranked higher than Myles Jack is fkd up.

OT's are typically ranked higher than LBs because they make a much bigger impact on the game. OT's are engaged on, pretty much, 100% of non-special-teams plays, but LBers are often not impactful (on, say, quick passes to the far side of the field).

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Re: Defense?
Posted by: thegreathoo ()
Date: May 02, 2016 06:35PM

I agree that OTs are typically taken higher than LBs, but that is just wrong, in a general case. That valuation is bad.

For example, Matthews tackle, Robinson, Lewan was taken over LB Mosley. That's the kind of stupidity I'm talking about. It goes on and on like that. It stupid!

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Re: Defense?
Posted by: JoeFootball ()
Date: May 03, 2016 04:14AM

Tackles are valued higher because it's a passing league and anyone who directly stops or helps the passer holds more value. OT, CB, DE.

The QB is the undisputed most valuable player on any given team. The guy protecting him and charged with keeping him healthy is not more valuable than a LB?

How valuable is a LB in coverage on a RB in the flat when the QB throws a deep post for a TD? The tackle is helping the QB on every run play and every pass play. The LB is negated just by being away from the play.

Why did Carolina lose the biggest game of the season? Because the tackles could not stop the pass rush. But you are saying that Brandon Marshall or Danny Trevathon were more important to the outcome. I don't think so.

Defensive players are as important as their offensive counterpart.

CB=WR
43DE or 34OLB=OT
DT=OG,C
ILB=RB

The LB depends on DT's to keep o-linemen off of him so he can do his job. The most important player on offense OR defense, depends on his tackles to keep the defenses MOST dangerous and skilled weapon away from him.

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Re: Defense?
Posted by: jlyell13 ()
Date: May 03, 2016 05:42PM

We got what before the QB frenzy was ranked as the #1 pick at 13

Jack could be one and done if cartilage is separating . Brandon Roy but in a much tougher sport

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Re: Defense?
Posted by: thegreathoo ()
Date: May 03, 2016 06:41PM


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Re: Defense?
Posted by: mizzou15 ()
Date: May 04, 2016 02:56AM

When your job is to protect the biggest investment on the team it inflates your ranking. How would Marino's career would have gone w/ out Webb (Esiason-Munoz, Aikman Tuinei) . OLB in the 4/3 don't merit as high as those in a 3/4. Phins did right. They were not going to fill all of their holes in this years draft so they went offense and the defensive backfield. They did bring in Mario Williams, Branch, Alonso and Maxwell in f/a and trades so they did upgrade the D.

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Re: Defense?
Posted by: jsm08 ()
Date: May 04, 2016 03:57AM

I tend to agree with mizz. You can't address everything in the draft but when you look at what they got at 13...Tunsil, Alonso, and Maxwell they did a pretty good job.

They got another CB in the 2nd.

I don't expect much from them this year. At least our offensive minded coach got some help on that side of the ball. They can address D next year.

I just hope this staff plays out better than the last. Their resumes say they should but you never know.

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Re: Defense?
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: May 04, 2016 04:05AM

I got the answer to the title of this thread steve.................


They have to find out if tannehill is the one or not. So they are trying to give him every weapon possible....

We Got.....OT, RB WR TE in the 2016 draft...


If he doesnt excell with all these improvements then they will know for sure he isnt the one.

PS. Id be sad if he goes to another team and becomes great.

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Re: Defense?
Posted by: JoeFootball ()
Date: May 04, 2016 06:35AM

thegreathoo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jlyell13 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> We got what before the QB frenzy was ranked as the
> #1 pick at 13
>
> Jack could be one and done if cartilage is
> separating . Brandon Roy but in a much tougher
> sport
>
> An OT should never ever be ranked #1 overall, on a
> good board. On a bad board, an OT is quite often
> ranked #1 overall. Also a DT, or OG, or C.
>
> OL, and interior DL are slow non impact fat ass
> positions that should never ever be ranked high.
>
> In the end it is about the player. In other words
> if ona player is bad and the other is good, the
> good player is better regardless of position.
> However, positional valuation should and must be
> taken into account when drafting. And when it
> comes to positional valuation, OL and DL are of
> low value, which almost always makes drafting a LB
> over an OT a better choice.

WOW. Just WOW.

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Re: Defense?
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: May 04, 2016 08:14AM

LMAO thy scarecrow from the wizard of OZ is at it again.....HEHEHEHEHE

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Re: Defense?
Posted by: BigNastyFish ()
Date: May 04, 2016 08:27AM

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think they feel like the swapping picks with
> Philly, was part of the draft. And therefore the
> FO looks at Byron Maxwell and Kiko Alonso as being
> part of the draft. So they got 4 defensive guys
> "out of the draft", hopefully 3 starters on
> defense. So they think they addressed defense...
> We shall see....


This is spot on OBVIOUS!

After that we addressed DBs. It would seem there was no perceived "impact" and/or serious upgrade potential @LB vs. our roster -- or the simple fact Gase saw more immediate dividend adding scoring potential @WR and teams along with some needed speed @RB.

I think we had specific targets at slotted rounds and went after the immediate upgrade for scoring points -- which is actually the key to winning most games. Of course D is important as well -- but we're out to ramp the O & scoring first.

Add some excitement. Sell some tixs. Win some games. Maybe...

BNF.

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Re: Defense?
Posted by: mizzou15 ()
Date: May 04, 2016 08:34AM

jsm08 Wrote:

>
> I just hope this staff plays out better than the
> last. Their resumes say they should but you never
> know.

I really have confidence in this staff and we will see players reach levels that we have not seen from them. It was before the 2014 season when I took a hard look at the bios of Philbin's staff and they just did not have the qualifications to develop nfl player's all except Campbell.

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Re: Defense?
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: May 04, 2016 08:40AM

I read that kiko alonzo is fully healthy and that his workout habits are impressive.....


This is the key to our LBs corps. Kiko Alonzo.


He has Zach Thomas talent.

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Re: Defense?
Posted by: montequi ()
Date: May 06, 2016 03:29AM

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I got the answer to the title of this thread
> steve.................
>
>
> They have to find out if tannehill is the one or
> not. So they are trying to give him every weapon
> possible....
>
> We Got.....OT, RB WR TE in the 2016 draft...
>
>
> If he doesnt excell with all these improvements
> then they will know for sure he isnt the one.
>
> PS. Id be sad if he goes to another team and
> becomes great.

I thought he was supposed to prove himself LAST season...or the one before. Since we got Tanny we've been continually working to give him pieces (Brandon Albert to protect his blind side, Landry/Parker for him to throw to, Lamar Miller to hand off to, etc...). What Tanny has shown us, so far, is that he's a good GAME MANAGER. We shouldn't expect him to lead a game-winning drive, or bring us back down several scores in the 4th quarter.

So, what we have done is give him impact players so that he can manage the game. Landry has the ability to make a long play out of a short catch. Our O-Line should be able to make bigger holes for the running game. Beyond that, forget his stats. Tanny is a middle-of-the-road QB at best.

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