ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Seriously? This is huge over exaggeration, IMO.
> Your saying Thill was at fault for half of the
> sacks he has taken?
>
> No offense, Joe but half of the sacks Tanny took
> was when he had HAD ample time in the pocket to,
> at least, throw the ball in the cheap seats and he
> just stood there with that petrified look on his
> face until he was sacked. So you're only half
> right.

**********************************************************

"...petrified look on his face...." Hell, he had that look when they broke the huddle wondering if this will be the play that puts him out of the game.

Sorry, Chryen, half the sacks when he had ample time...No, he rarely had ample time. He mainly had "ample" time when he was scrambling. The (majority) of the rest of the time he was getting hit. Most of the pressure (and sacks) came up the middle.

Again, as we have all been stating for quite a while, the coaches knew the weaknesses of the OLine, but instead of devising plays to help RT get out of trouble, they did nothing; they just let him sit in the pocket. When he was allowed to roll out (or if he scrambled), he was able to get away from the pressure and usually had a positive play.

You guys have to understand...when a QB is under as much pressure as RT has been and has been getting hit as much as RT, a QB plays scared. It didn't look like RT was playing scared, but deep inside...

Anyway, if Gase and Christianson can't get improvement out of RT, then I don't think anyone can. They SHOULD be devising plays that cater to his strengths.

Phins5.0 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But part of the problem with the OL has been that
> Tannehill holds the ball too long and doesn't seem
> to have the instincts to avoid sacks while in the
> pocket.
>
>

Hard to tell if he holds the ball too long. From what I saw in 2015, the pocket was collapsing as soon as the ball was snapped. Tannehill hadn't even finished his drop when he was tackled.

Let's be real -- poor pass pro will "rattle" any QB -- especially if you're being told to hang in the pocket.

Thill suffered from very poor coaching and consistently poor OL play. That alone does not mean he'll be all pro with the proper corrections but it certainly means he's been playing with a significant handicap.

I keep saying the same thing -- give the kid good pass pro and a consistent run game then we'll see how efficient he can be. Add to that significantly better coaching, support, game plan and design and Ryan may prove to be an excellent QB.

The odds of that are certainly as good IMO as drafting another QB high with the expectation he'll be the savior.

BNF.

Well said BNF.

I don't understand why the expectations are for T-hill to take that next step when the team around him has been ignored or gotten worse. The QB cannot be the only one to get better.

If we had a line like Dallas and he failed to develop, then you would have a clear answer. Dallas had a line like Dallas and they couldn't keep their QB on the field for more than 4 games.

JoeFootball Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well said BNF.
>
> I don't understand why the expectations are for
> T-hill to take that next step when the team around
> him has been ignored or gotten worse. The QB
> cannot be the only one to get better.
>
> If we had a line like Dallas and he failed to
> develop, then you would have a clear answer.
> Dallas had a line like Dallas and they couldn't
> keep their QB on the field for more than 4 games.

Bottom line peeps (My Yammie fans) are burned out and impatient. It's easy to look at one player and lay blame for the collective problem. That, and of course, QB is THE premiere position where everyone thinks team success is either guaranteed or not.

I don't know if Ryan can elevate his game to the level necessary for us to be a dominate power -- but I 100% believe his core skill set (and athletic chops) are more than good enough for us to be a very solid team. We know what he needs and we have to hope Gase is capable of providing the solution. Based on his background and the support he's already put around Ryan -- I'd say we have a really good chance of seeing some very positive developments. But of course, there are no guarantees...

Everyone always points to Brady as if he's a difference maker all by himself and can function independently of the cast around him. Simple fact is -- Brady has had the benefit of very good coaching and an overall excellent OL for the greater part of his career. Bottom line, if Brady had been with this franchise over the past 7-10 years, and been thrown into the identical situation our list of QBs were subjected to -- does anyone really believe he'd be a "great player?"

I always go back to Archie Manning -- who suffered in a shit hole for all those years... If he was in the right environment -- say hooked up with someone like Shula in his prime or Bill Walsh -- he'd be right at the top of anyone's "best ever" QB list.

So yea -- there is something like "football destiny" and "karma." We have to hope Gase can literally change the dynamic enough to provide Ryan with a new destiny -- which would be positive football karma.

That said, I think it would help a lot if Ross got an exorcism!

BNF.

Quote: Bottom line peeps (My Yammie fans) are burned out and impatient.



Not going to try and top that.


Bingo.

All of this talk about a better Oline, I hear ya but we currently spend more money on our Oline then any other team in the entire NFL.. Are we suppose to spend more, keep throwing money at it? We spend more on our Oline but have one of the worst in the business... I think we need to rethink what is going on... We cant have this much money tied up there and get such poor results...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Quote: That said, I think it would help a lot if Ross got an exorcism!

I agree and add.....after don shula , jimmy johnson got us a good defense.........And thats about as much luck as weve had...PS Dan at the end of career...


Every other coach thereafter has been a disaster........



Ross definitely needs an exorcism.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, Joe and BNF, anyone must agree that the odds
> of him being better with a better oline is not
> only great but logical itself.
>
> However, even more, I still insist that he is not
> a pocket QB and to see him being great, not just
> average to good, put him in the same scheme as
> Russell Wilson, Cam Newton, and Colin Kaepernick.
>
> Ryan Tannehill will never be Dan Marino. He lacks
> the arm and the quick throw.
>
> Nor will he ever be a Bob Griese.
>
> But is being a Cam or Russell really that bad? As
> Dylan said, "The Times they are a changin'."

No, I agree. We need to put together a system that takes advantage of Ryan's athletic package and NOT force him to be a sitting duck in the pocket. Get him on the move more, and play into what he does best.

As far as Marino -- that ain't EVER going to happen again.

BNF.

Inept execution does not negate the goal.

And -- the goal (objective) of building a high-performance OL is not negated by poor personnel decisions which fail to achieve the objective.

"Is that dog chasing its tail?"

BNF.

And its also true....If brady was here for the last 15 years, he wouldnt be considered one of the best ever. Not even close.


Notice im giving tannehill the benefit of the doubt because its the offseason.

When the season starts next year again, and he starts buying time and keeping the ball until he gets sacked i will be on his ass again.


Thats what fans do.

Some years i have time to taste the season..at least until the 10th game or so..This year 2015 the season started and it was over from the beginning....Boring season.


I got to a point that i would just settle for having a chance at the playoffs until the 12th or 14th game..even if we dont make it..At least you can get a taste of the season like that....But been out of it since the 4th or 5th game is just pathetic.

BigNastyFish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Inept execution does not negate the goal.
>
> And -- the goal (objective) of building a
> high-performance OL is not negated by poor
> personnel decisions which fail to achieve the
> objective.
>
> "Is that dog chasing its tail?"
>
> BNF.


Sure I hear ya, but you have to fix the huge salary problems we have then on the Oline.. You cant have that much money tied up there in a salary cap league with such poor results, it robs other parts of the team... We need to draft well on the oline... We need some of these 2nd, 3rd rd and even later rd guys to work out...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All of this talk about a better Oline, I hear ya
> but we currently spend more money on our Oline
> then any other team in the entire NFL.. Are we
> suppose to spend more, keep throwing money at it?
> We spend more on our Oline but have one of the
> worst in the business... I think we need to
> rethink what is going on... We cant have this much
> money tied up there and get such poor results...

******************************************************

Crowder, true, Miami has put a lot of money into the OL and still has one of the worst. Why? Because all that money that is thrown there is for crap. All these years of obtaining offensive linemen, what value did we get? Long earned his status for a few years until injury caught up to him. Pouncey has done well. Last but not least...Albert, although when Miami was pursuing him I felt they shouldn't over spend for an oft-injured player, but Miami did anyway, and what did they get? A good player who is oft-injured.

Miami had plenty of opportunities to spend a little more money than they did and come away with solid players, but they went the cheap route, along with hoping their young players would develop. Well, we all know where that got them.

What's funny in all this....when most of these OL problems started it was when Miami's HC was a offensive line specialist.

Sigh!

We've had the perfect (shite) storm between coaching and FO for far too long. Front office that couldn't identify talent and coaches who couldn't make them better.

The hope being that we get lucky with some draft picks or that the "new" front office guys like Grier, Eric Stokes and Anthony Hunt & Joe Schoen have been being ignored for years and are actually good personnel guys. Yeah right.

Tannenbaum was GM in NY when they drafted Nick Mangold & D'Brickashaw Ferguson and signed FA's like Damien Woody, Alan Faneca, Matt Slauson.

Albert was a terrible signing in that they overpaid like crazy. 11 mil more than the next FA that year. He was also too old to get paid that much (that long) but he made up for it by being injury prone?

Pouncey is pretty good but probably slightly over rated.

James is average.

They really have to hit on a guard and a guard/tackle this year or there is no hope.

kevin Hogan in the 4th

He might go higher than the 4th.

Our line isn't the best. There's no debating that but our QB had a deer in headlights look about him way too much.

You can only design so many roll outs and only move the pocket so often. At some point he has to develop the instincts to step up and move around the pocket to buy time.

What Tanne did in the Giants game was the best I've seen him look in 4 years. He made plays out of nothing. Study that tape, work on that. Hopefully that's what our new staff will do.

That said I still look for plan B this offseason in the 2nd - 4th round. We're 2-3 years from consistently competing for a playoff spot. I just don't hold out much home with Tannenbaum in charge.

3 weeks until the combine (February 23-29), 34 days until FA signing period (March 7).

April 4: Clubs that hired a new head coach after the end of the 2015 regular season may begin offseason workout programs.

April 18: Clubs with returning head coaches may begin offseason workout programs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2016 05:52AM by JoeFootball.

JoeFootball Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 3 weeks until the combine (February 23-29), 34
> days until the draft (March 7).


I am confused, what is March 7? I thought the NFL Draft was the end of April 28-30. Which is around 90 days away...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JoeFootball Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > 3 weeks until the combine (February 23-29), 34
> > days until the draft (March 7).
>
>
> I am confused, what is March 7? I thought the NFL
> Draft was the end of April 28-30. Which is around
> 90 days away...

Sorry about that. It was edited.

jsm08 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
I just don't hold out much hope with Tannenbaum in charge.

Obviously if Tannenbaum blows we're is serious trouble for the long haul because that would mean (a) the new coaching staff is fundamentally flawed from the top down and (b) our personnel decisions are ineffective and/or erratic (can you say Sybil?).

Our only hope for a positive upside (within the next few seasons) is based on Tannenbaum being "functionally competent" in his role coupled with a few good rolls of the dice (like hitting big on some later picks who become solid OL starters etc.).

Beyond that -- we have to hope Gase is the face of the NEW My Yammie Dolphins (no more Flounder!). And he packs a wallop of positive football karma! He came to My Yammie to put a hurtin' on the Cheats and he's ready willing and able to get-er-done!

My opinion. Of course.

BNF.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2016 06:37AM by BigNastyFish.

The question is...Can he keep his nose out of the personnel evaluations? and let Chris Grier make the decisions in ranking college and FA talent?

The guy was the "Director of Player Contract Negotiations" to start his career, I don't see him as an evaluator. He couldn't control himself last year and he made Hickey take Jordan Phillips in the second round. Not that we didn't need a DT but he hasn't shown much yet.

Taking Phillips was right out of the BiggieT philosophy of BIG.

I'm no draft maven, but investing in kids who do not live up to their athletic potential in college is pure speculation.

You can speculate when you have the luxury of being able to potentially waste a pick. We all know that was not a wise move on our part.

Speaking of drafting defensive tackles, this will make you ill....

2013 draft:

Miami:

#12 & #42 for Dion Jordan (#4)
#54 Jamar Taylor

Carolina:

#14 Star Lotulelei
#44 Kawann Short

This brings up another point in how I would like to see Vance Joseph use DT's in 2016.

Star Lotulelei is a 4-3 NT, Kawann Short is a 3 technique DT.

Coyle wanted to use two, "3-tech" type players even though they would still line up at 0 tech, 1 tech and 2 technique.

I want to see us use Suh as the 3-technique and insert a 4-3 NT to occupy blockers so Suh can make plays. That's why I want a player like Damon Harrison, Ian Williams or a draft pick to play next to Suh.

Last year Suh lined up predominantly at NT or 1 tech/2 tech.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2016 10:28AM by JoeFootball.

I think wherever Suh lines up he's gonna get double-teamed, yes?