I think we cannot afford to give draft picks for a questionable coach.

As a HC, he is ok, IF you can overlook the fact that he hired and kept Rob Ryan as DC for 3 years.

Payton drove the Saints into the ground as GM and has "bountygate" on his resume.

In 9 years (2006 - 2015) he has won his division 3 times. That's against the Panthers, Falcons and Bucs.

He has finished at .500 or below, 4 out of 9 years.

All with a franchise, HOF QB.

Personally, not impressed and I absolutely would give up nothing to get him.

I'd take his former OC, Doug Marrone before I would hire him.

Jets were last relevant in 1969 there suck streak is longer than ours. Why the heck is Ross hung up w/ there personal I don't know. If I were a new owner I think I would talk to the Mara's and Rooney's of the nfl. Pull folks in from franchises that have a winning history. **** keep this up we will become the Lions of the afc.

mizzou15 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jets were last relevant in 1969 there suck streak
> is longer than ours. Why the heck is Ross hung up
> w/ there personal I don't know. If I were a new
> owner I think I would talk to the Mara's and
> Rooney's of the nfl. Pull folks in from franchises
> that have a winning history. **** keep this up we
> will become the Lions of the afc.

Sadly, I think we'd have to significantly improve to be the Lions.

I'd give up whatever it takes to get Payton.

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What do you guys think about Sean Peyton?

***************************************************

I think he would do well in Miami if left alone to do the job he was hired to do.

Will the FO have Payton's hands tied?

Also, with Miami having so many holes to fill (on both sides of the ball), I am not too keen on losing, at the least, Miami's first round draft pick. As of right now, Miami has the 6th pick, and SHOULD be able to get a difference maker, on either side of the ball.

As far as the draft goes, I had been saying for quite a while that OL is the most needed position in Miami, but I am changing my mind on that. I now think CB is Miami's number one priority, and the guy needs to be at least 6 ft. As mentioned in an earlier post, Grimes is getting up in age and is just too short. The receivers around the league are starting to kill him. Miami also has nothing on the other side.

Miami must also do something in FA. I believe this is where the OL can be shored up. Stop hoping the guys we presently have will somehow become solid. We've been waiting for them to develop for about three years now and they have yet to do much, except get RT crushed. Guard has been the problem, but Albert hasn't been the most reliable (medically) and he is getting up in years. So, an OT needs to be signed, also, in the even Albert goes down and/or retires.

Cap, besides Brandon Marshall who is over 6'4", has anyone else been burning Grimes based on size alone? I didn't hear that much about him being burned before this game.

He didn't say it was based on size alone, he said he was up in age and too small.

Which is what happens to smallish CBs, even if they can play at high level for a bit, their size always comes into play.

It's true Watkins at 6'1, didn't beat him on size alone, he just beat him all day long for 8 catches for 168 yards when the Bills only had about 180 passing yards total.

Watkins isn't a tall receiver, but he's still bigish and physical and Grimes was burnt. Due to age or size or both.

captkoi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Also, with Miami having so many holes to fill (on
> both sides of the ball), I am not too keen on
> losing, at the least, Miami's first round draft
> pick. As of right now, Miami has the 6th pick, and
> SHOULD be able to get a difference maker, on
> either side of the ball.

Exactly. Payton is not the only or best choice out there. if we had football people running the show, they might be able to identify a good coach (and players). Rumor is Payton wants full control. Not sure Tannenbaum is going for that.

>
> As far as the draft goes, I had been saying for
> quite a while that OL is the most needed position
> in Miami, but I am changing my mind on that. I now
> think CB is Miami's number one priority, and the
> guy needs to be at least 6 ft. As mentioned in an
> earlier post, Grimes is getting up in age and is
> just too short. The receivers around the league
> are starting to kill him. Miami also has nothing
> on the other side.

It could very well be the first pick if Vernon Hargreaves happens to fall to us in the draft. That would be awesome.

> Miami must also do something in FA. I believe this
> is where the OL can be shored up. Stop hoping the
> guys we presently have will somehow become solid.
> We've been waiting for them to develop for about
> three years now and they have yet to do much,
> except get RT crushed. Guard has been the problem,
> but Albert hasn't been the most reliable
> (medically) and he is getting up in years. So, an
> OT needs to be signed, also, in the even Albert
> goes down and/or retires.

I think Albert is still knocking the rust off and learning to trust his knee. He's not young but still just turned 31 last month. He should still have a few good years at LT left. We need to get at least one more year out of him so his contract doesn't kill us. We are stuck with him at 10-11 mil cap hits.

Once again so many questions throughout the depth charts on both sides of the ball.

Biggest need will depend on how a few of the young guys progress IF they can get coached up.

I would say #1 need is DT. Stopping the run is our most glaring weakness right now. Suh cannot do it alone. He had help in Detroit. Our only hope is....

Jordan Phillips: Tannenbaum overruled Hickey on draft day to take this kid when they were looking at guards. He is a high pick who will likely get his most snaps this week against one of the best interior lines in the league. Yanda and Osemele. (Osemele is a free agent LG next year.) if they don't bite as pups....

If he cannot occupy some blockers, DT is a HUGE NEED.

Tony Lippett: Not much data on him in game time yet but we will get a look at Bobby McCain, who starts this week. I think Grimes has been playing hurt but he too is getting older. 33 next July with a 9.5 mil cap hit and 3 mil in dead money if cut. That's 6.5 mil in savings and we will need the space.

Dallas Thomas, Billy Turner and Jamil Douglas need to be assessed by someone who actually knows what their doing because right now, even after most of the season has passed, they have been good at times but always inconsistent.

Depending on BPA, they could go CB, DT, DE or take a tackle and move James inside but he's never played guard. More value there than drafting a guard but I would not want to use a top 10 pick for a RT when we have glaring needs at pass rusher and CB. Not to mention MLB.

One of these guys could be a target....

CB: Vernon Hargreaves
MLB: Myles Jack, Jaylon Smith
DT: Robert Nkemdiche
DE: Joey Bosa
OT: Ronnie Stanley

Potential/likely cuts in 2016:

Cameron Wake: +8.4 mil (restructure)
Brent Grimes: +6.5 mil (restructure)
Koa Misi: +3.7 mil
Earl Mitchell: +2.5 mil
Brice McCain: +2.5 mil
Greg Jennings: +4 mil

Total savings: 27.6 mil

Do not re-sign: Kelvin Sheppard, Jason Fox

KEY Free agents: Lamar Miller, Olivier Vernon, Derrick Shelby, Rishard Mathews

They almost have to restructure Suh's contract at 28.6 mil!

Otherwise we have no shot in FA and we need a starting FS, MLB, OLB, DT, CB1, CB2, LG, RG & possibly two DE's.

Jason Allen
Ted Ginn Jr
Jake Long
Vontae Davis
Jared Odrick
Mike Pouncy
Ryan Tannehill
Dion Jordan
Ju'Wuan James
DeVante Parker

You guys act like we have a history of striking gold in the first round.

I'd gladly part with any one of our past 10 first rounders for a SB winning coach who is 90-56 in his 9+ years in New Orleans,

"But what about this move or that move?" Some of you guys would have talked yourselves out of wanting Shula because he lost to the jets.

Coaching matters.

Any coaching trades I can remember have involved multiple picks and even multiple first round picks.

Payton was 7-9 last year and 4-7 this year. He drove the Saints into the ground with a top 3 QB. Not many coaches lose that big with a HOF QB.

ESPN, Fox, NFLN, CBS and AARP are littered with SuperBowl winning coaches with high winning percentages.....that were fired because they failed.

good coaches have bad years. it happens. you deserve the sh!t the phins serve up with logic like that.

so who do you want, joe? another hot coordinator? a reject that will "get it" this time?

Nick Saban? Cam Cameron? Tony Sparano? Joe Philbin?

Our last 4 coaches were first timers that sucked. In that same period Payton took over one of the losingest franchises in the sport and won a superbowl, made it to the playoffs 5 times and won at least one playoff game 4 of those years.

I'd gladly take an off year from a good coach like that than perpetual mediocrity.

Oh now you want to bring logic into your argument all of the sudden? LOL

Doesn't sound too logical to fall in love with a coach who isn't even on the market. They said the same thing last year about him.

Let alone to think that there is only ONE fix in all the world for this team. Actually sounds pretty irrational to me.

LOGIC would tell you that if given the opportunity, he would choose Andrew Luck and Indy over the Miami dysfunction machine anyway.

He's so great that the Saints are willing to let him go why?

I don't see the Cardinals or Patriots wanting to part with Arians or Belichick.

I can understand why HE would want to leave since he mismanaged the Saints so bad they are now in cap hell and have no talent on the roster and Brees is 36 with a 30 mil cap hit but...

Great idea though. Maybe he can bring his latest talent evaluator project with him? Jeff Ireland.

Yes, he won a SuperBowl....6 years ago! Is that the only requirement? Hell, Mike Shanahan won two of them! He's available.

Brian Billick, Jon Gruden, Bill Cowher won the year before Payton. I hear Barry Switzer is looking....

In all seriousness, you do realize that Tannenbaum would have to hire him right? And likely give up full control to him. Sure...that'll happen. Sounds logical to me.

More likely that Tannenbaum is working on bringing in his guys.....Howey Roseman as the next GM and Eric Mangini as the new HC. God help us.

You conveniently avoided the question.

Who do you want to coach the phins, joe?

jsm08 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'd give up whatever it takes to get Payton.


Yeah great. You can have the best driver in the world, he couldn't win A NASCAR RACE with a Toyota Prius.

Not one draft pick goes towards anything but glaring holes including the Oline and corner. I hope we get a team who actually needs a QB and Trades us down for several more pics. Keep Campbell, concentrate on the draft and drafting well.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

"Right now", my personal choice would be McDaniels.

He'd at least bring us a workable offensive system...

coaching matters.

jsm08 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> good coaches have bad years. it happens. you
> deserve the sh!t the phins serve up with logic
> like that.
>
> so who do you want, joe? another hot coordinator?
> a reject that will "get it" this time?
>
> Nick Saban? Cam Cameron? Tony Sparano? Joe
> Philbin?
>
> Our last 4 coaches were first timers that sucked.
> In that same period Payton took over one of the
> losingest franchises in the sport and won a
> superbowl, made it to the playoffs 5 times and won
> at least one playoff game 4 of those years.
>
> I'd gladly take an off year from a good coach like
> that than perpetual mediocrity.

As much as a prick he was, I think Saban had the team headed in the right direction. If he truly would have been 100% dedicated (which we all know he wasn't), it might have worked out with him. The other 3 were stiffs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2015 08:02AM by montequi.

I agree about saban................Too bad he turned out to be a pathological liar.

First, Saban was and is an excellent coach. He got 9 wins through smoke and mirrors on defense. Unfortunately, just like Spurrier in Washington, their families didn't want to move from the South (South Florida is more like NY than it is the South), their families liked being big fishes in the college scene, and their families were unsupportive of the move to the NFL. Combine that with the fact that neither had QB's and you simply can't win in the NFL without a QB and they go from savior to goat very quickly, just like any coach. We'll see how long Kelly holds out in Philly. I haven't heard anything about his family not liking the move and they were originally from the NE US, but he still has to overcome the same issue every team does - no QB.

Second, I don't get the focus on personnel decisions of the Saints. I made the comment earlier because I think there was a philosophical offensive strategy decision behind trading away Graham for a 1st round pick and a center. And because it was philosophical, Payton had to be involved in that decision. But otherwise, in terms of salary cap, etc.. Loomis is the Saint's GM. I don't see how you blame Payton for their salary cap situation.

Having said that, I'm completely against giving up any sort of draft picks for a coach. Talent is more important. As was mentioned, there's a ton of coaches sitting on broadcast teams that have resumes just as impressive as Payton and would only take dollars to get. Dungy, Gruden, Billick, Cowher, all have resumes just as good as Payton. Only JJ has the superior resume and we've already tried that route.

I'd rather have Billick than give up a draft pick for Payton. I really wonder what Billick did to get so black balled.

Absolutely keep Dan Campbell. I'm tired of retread coaches coming here and getting handled. When people say "Campbell will be a great coach one day, but not right now, and certainly not for us" all I can do is groan and say in response that Rome wasn't built in a day. I'm not exactly high on any of the coaching options out there currently, and I think keeping Campbell and building a more physical team starting with the O-line, CBs, and LBs is the way of the future.

And Tannehill isn't the problem, keeping him upright and untouched is. And crappy play calling.

PhinsUp_88 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Absolutely keep Dan Campbell. I'm tired of retread
> coaches coming here and getting handled. When
> people say "Campbell will be a great coach one
> day, but not right now, and certainly not for us"
> all I can do is groan and say in response that
> Rome wasn't built in a day. I'm not exactly high
> on any of the coaching options out there
> currently, and I think keeping Campbell and
> building a more physical team starting with the
> O-line, CBs, and LBs is the way of the future.
>
> And Tannehill isn't the problem, keeping him
> upright and untouched is. And crappy play calling.

***************************************************

Agree with everything you said, except what you said about Campbell.

I thought Campbell was going to come out and make this Dolphins team very physical and aggressive. He looked that type, however, with the exception of the first two games under Campbell, I haven't seen that. I have seen the guys play harder than when Philbin was HC, but evidently Campbell can't get the same fire he has, into the team. I also thought I would see him on the sideline all fired up when mistakes happen, but I have not seen that either.

I am one of the ones who has said I think Campbell will be a fine HC someday, but not with Miami (next year). Hasn't had a lot of experience. True, he is the interim HC this season, but he has had no coordinator experience and he has had to lean on others to help him coach this team.

He could very possibly turn out to be a terrific HC next season with Miami, but Ross and the fans cannot afford to "hope and pray" that he will be; Ross has to get this team fixed right now! That's why I say he needs to get someone more experienced, tough, and knows how to evaluate players and get them going in the right direction (ala Shula). Getting this type of coach also is not a guarantee of success, but I would rather gamble on experience vs non-experience and potential.

Saying that, if Campbell wins out (which I highly doubt), it is very possible Campbell will be the guy. But, if not, then Ross will have to go in a different direction, UNLESS....that high quality guy is not available (for whatever reason).

But, we will all just have to wait and see.

captkoi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> PhinsUp_88 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Absolutely keep Dan Campbell. I'm tired of
> retread
> > coaches coming here and getting handled. When
> > people say "Campbell will be a great coach one
> > day, but not right now, and certainly not for
> us"
> > all I can do is groan and say in response that
> > Rome wasn't built in a day. I'm not exactly
> high
> > on any of the coaching options out there
> > currently, and I think keeping Campbell and
> > building a more physical team starting with the
> > O-line, CBs, and LBs is the way of the future.
> >
> > And Tannehill isn't the problem, keeping him
> > upright and untouched is. And crappy play
> calling.
>
> **************************************************
> *
>
> Agree with everything you said, except what you
> said about Campbell.
>
> I thought Campbell was going to come out and make
> this Dolphins team very physical and aggressive.
> He looked that type, however, with the exception
> of the first two games under Campbell, I haven't
> seen that. I have seen the guys play harder than
> when Philbin was HC, but evidently Campbell can't
> get the same fire he has, into the team. I also
> thought I would see him on the sideline all fired
> up when mistakes happen, but I have not seen that
> either.

I don't think "fire" is the issue. DC cannot make Mitchell win his one on one match-ups or make the LB's/DB's not miss tackles. He can't make them something they are not or have ever been.

As far as getting fired up on the sideline, that is walking a fine line, IMO. I think he would definitely do that if he thought it would help (see Egnew tape) but it is too early and as the "new guy" he risks losing the team. As an inexperienced coach on an interim basis, he has to be careful. Nobody likes the new guy coming in and freaking out. Composure is never a bad thing.


> I am one of the ones who has said I think Campbell
> will be a fine HC someday, but not with Miami
> (next year). Hasn't had a lot of experience. True,
> he is the interim HC this season, but he has had
> no coordinator experience and he has had to lean
> on others to help him coach this team.
>
> He could very possibly turn out to be a terrific
> HC next season with Miami, but Ross and the fans
> cannot afford to "hope and pray" that he will be;
> Ross has to get this team fixed right now! That's
> why I say he needs to get someone more
> experienced, tough, and knows how to evaluate
> players and get them going in the right direction
> (ala Shula). Getting this type of coach also is
> not a guarantee of success, but I would rather
> gamble on experience vs non-experience and
> potential.

But, if the rumors around the league are any indication, not many top coaches are going to want to work with Tannenbaum as the big boss. People know our FO is a mess led by a "non-football guy" and a clueless owner. It's a recipe for failure. No one wants to ruin their future and depend on a so-so scouting department. Until we get good people making decisions in personnel, we are not going to have success.

>
> Saying that, if Campbell wins out (which I highly
> doubt), it is very possible Campbell will be the
> guy. But, if not, then Ross will have to go in a
> different direction, UNLESS....that high quality
> guy is not available (for whatever reason).
>
> But, we will all just have to wait and see.

I'm afraid we are destined for failure until Jets south is deported. Campbell may be the best option until then. I have no doubt he could find better coaching talent than what we currently have right now. Coyle's offensive system is a gimmicky joke and our defense has too many holes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/2015 04:29AM by JoeFootball.

How about Les Miles? I keep hearing LSU may be looking for a new HC. We could do worse!

Both Miles and DAntonio are likely staying right where they are.

It isn't really the coach IMO... more like a GM problem-thingy.

dgfred Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Both Miles and DAntonio are likely staying right
> where they are.
>
> It isn't really the coach IMO... more like a GM
> problem-thingy.

I agree to an extent.

#1 problem is the "GM thingy". (That's a great name for Tannenbum considering he doesn't really understand the job.) They could possibly be lured if we had a football guy running the show or at least a competent GM.

#2 is a derivative of that because we have a HUGE lack of talent on this team.

#3 is coaching. Campbell has some of the tools needed to be a great coach but he is missing an important one. The ability to implement a game plan to take advantage of a teams weaknesses as well as make in game adjustments. Of course that is much harder when you have bone-headed players making critical mistakes. Position coaching should be better. I would be shocked if more than 6 or 7 current position coaches/coordinators get NFL jobs outside of Miami next year. There are 24 coaches on the staff.

At this point we are an expansion team without the luxury of the first overall pick and an expansion draft. They need to build a team from this group of players.....

DEFENSE (6): Ndamnukong Suh, Jelaney Jenkins, Reshad Jones, Jordan Phillips, Tony Lippett, Bobby McCain

OFFENSE (9): Tannehill, Branden Albert, Mike Pouncey, JaWaun James, Jay Ajayi, DeVante Parker, Kenny Stills, Jarvis Landry, Dion Sims

ST (3): Franks, Darr, Denney & Walt Aikens but not as a FS.

...and I'll throw in Dallas Thomas, Jamil Douglas, Billy Turner and a few others since they are cheap (sub 1 mil) and can be used for depth if they don't improve. Say....30 players (to be generous) are salvageable and we need 23 new players.

Then the question becomes can you retain these guys at a reasonable price.....

Lamar Miller (<5mil), Olivier Vernon (<6 mil), Rishard Mathews (<4 mil, Derrick Shelby (<3 mil).

How in the hell you can field a competitive team with a roster turnover like that is beyond me.

On the "must cut list".....cap casualty or other...

Sheppard, B Grimes, K Misi, G Jennings, E Mitchell, C Jordan,

I don't see a great coach agreeing to come here and work under this front office so Campbell may be the best option if he can hire his own COMPLETELY NEW staff (outside of Rizzi).

Fanspeak - Mock Off season

SUMMARY AFTER FREE AGENCY
MIAMI DOLPHINS
Change Team >>
Salary Cap: 150,000,000
Player Salaries: 132,909,366
Dead Money: 4,147,925
Carryover: 9,656,457
Reserved for Draft Picks: 5,000,000
Cap Space Remaining: 17,599,166

ACTIONS
CUT
Name Position
Dion Jordan OLB
Koa Misi ILB
Jamar Taylor CB
Cameron Wake DE
Brent Grimes CB
Earl Mitchell DT
Jason Fox OT
Jordan Cameron TE
Greg Jennings WR

RESTRUCTURED
Name Position
Ndamukong Suh DT

ROSTER
SIGNED PLAYERS
Name Position Cap Hit
Lamar Miller RB 3,150,000
Rishard Matthews WR 2,800,000
Derrick Shelby DE 1,500,000
Olivier Vernon DE 4,200,000
Cameron Wake DE 4,800,000
Brent Grimes CB 3,600,000
Mitchell Schwartz OT 3,375,000
Kelechi Osemele G 4,200,000
Damon Harrison DT 2,800,000
Rolando McClain ILB 4,500,000
Jordan Cameron TE 2,800,000
Josh Norman CB 6,300,000

REST OF ROSTER
Name Position Cap Hit
Jelani Jenkins OLB 793,172
Dion Sims TE 791,888
Dallas Thomas G 856,594
Reshad Jones S 8,202,942
John Denney LS 1,215,000
Kenny Stills WR 675,000
Branden Albert OT 10,150,000
Ja\'Wuan James OT 2,298,654
Billy Turner OT 861,000
Jarvis Landry WR 947,702
Walt Aikens CB 703,977
Terrence Fede DE 613,988
Damien Williams RB 601,168
Ryan Tannehill QB 11,640,000
Chris McCain ILB 600,000
Ndamukong Suh DT 12,850,000
Brice McCain CB 3,500,000
Mike Pouncey C 10,025,000
Matt Darr P 525,333
Andrew Franks K 525,000
Neville Hewitt ILB 525,333
Zach Vigil ILB 528,333
Bobby McCain CB 582,072
DeVante Parker WR 2,471,941
Jamil Douglas G 654,641
Jay Ajayi RB 580,203
Jordan Phillips DT 991,570
Tony Lippett CB 578,691

I WISH!!!!!!!!!!!!!