KB Wrote: Tannehill is much better than Henne but that isn't necessarily saying much.


I agree with that.

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> KB Wrote: Tannehill is much better than Henne but
> that isn't necessarily saying much.
>
>
> I agree with that.


Why because the Team He is on hasn't carried their weight? Poor coaching, drafting, and injuries have been a huge factor in Ryan Tanehills lack of post season success.

Why do you think so many players go elsewhere and do so much better? We didn't sign Tanehill he would be on the Jets or Texans right now.

We just got a new culture, let's see how he rebounds this week.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

And a superstar QB makes everybody look good....

Why do you think marino always had those great OLINES...

Marino made everyone in the Oline look good with his play and quick release.

How many years did marino played....? 15 Plus?

He had to had played with some sucky Olines dont you think....?

But again he made them look good with the quick release and pro bowl play...

Look at it this way...

He made Oronde Gadgen look good...

Oronde was slower than a turtle.

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And a superstar QB makes everybody look good....
>
> Why do you think marino always had those great
> OLINES...
>
> Marino made everyone in the Oline look good with
> his play and quick release.
>
> How many years did marino played....? 15 Plus?
>
> He had to had played with some sucky Olines dont
> you think....?
>
> But again he made them look good with the quick
> release and pro bowl play...
>
> Look at it this way...
>
> He made Oronde Gadgen look good...
>
> Oronde was slower than a turtle.

Dude seriously? You know I love you , but you have it so backwards.1983....Marino was still in college when Miami lost in the superbowl. He literally walked onto a Superbowl team.unheard of for a first round pick because the last thing a sb callibur team usually needs is a QB.

That Oline made David Woodly look good.your not even remotely fair to Ryan and his share of Miami issues.Give him a fair shake with competent coaching and a better Oline.He has done well reguardless. Can he improve? Absolutely. Especially in the leadership catagory.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> samsam3738 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > And a superstar QB makes everybody look
> good....
> >
> > Why do you think marino always had those great
> > OLINES...
> >
> > Marino made everyone in the Oline look good
> with
> > his play and quick release.
> >
> > How many years did marino played....? 15 Plus?
> >
> > He had to had played with some sucky Olines
> dont
> > you think....?
> >
> > But again he made them look good with the quick
> > release and pro bowl play...
> >
> > Look at it this way...
> >
> > He made Oronde Gadgen look good...
> >
> > Oronde was slower than a turtle.
>
> Dude seriously? You know I love you , but you have
> it so backwards.1983....Marino was still in
> college when Miami lost in the superbowl. He
> literally walked onto a Superbowl team.unheard of
> for a first round pick because the last thing a sb
> callibur team usually needs is a QB.
>
> That Oline made David Woodly look good.your not
> even remotely fair to Ryan and his share of Miami
> issues.Give him a fair shake with competent
> coaching and a better Oline.He has done well
> reguardless. Can he improve? Absolutely.
> Especially in the leadership catagory.


"Dude Seriously" Right back at ya Treasure...You're forgetting, The 'Superbowl Team' Marino 'walked into' was only in the super bowl because of the 1982 strike. They got there by winning 7 games and playing a special 3 rd 'tournament'. 'Made Woodley look good'...really? He didn't complete a SINGLE PASS in the second half of that super-strike bowl. If Woodley looked so good why did Shula take a QB with his first pick the next year?

Can Tannehill improve? Sure, Ryan Mallet COULD improve but are you seriously ready to wait another 2 or 3 or 5 years just to have a guy with a little more maturity and leadership but who has little pocket presence, spotty accuracy, questionable decision making and now a 30 year old arm?

KB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > samsam3738 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > And a superstar QB makes everybody look
> > good....
> > >
> > > Why do you think marino always had those
> great
> > > OLINES...
> > >
> > > Marino made everyone in the Oline look good
> > with
> > > his play and quick release.
> > >
> > > How many years did marino played....? 15
> Plus?
> > >
> > > He had to had played with some sucky Olines
> > dont
> > > you think....?
> > >
> > > But again he made them look good with the
> quick
> > > release and pro bowl play...
> > >
> > > Look at it this way...
> > >
> > > He made Oronde Gadgen look good...
> > >
> > > Oronde was slower than a turtle.
> >
> > Dude seriously? You know I love you , but you
> have
> > it so backwards.1983....Marino was still in
> > college when Miami lost in the superbowl. He
> > literally walked onto a Superbowl team.unheard
> of
> > for a first round pick because the last thing a
> sb
> > callibur team usually needs is a QB.
> >
> > That Oline made David Woodly look good.your not
> > even remotely fair to Ryan and his share of
> Miami
> > issues.Give him a fair shake with competent
> > coaching and a better Oline.He has done well
> > reguardless. Can he improve? Absolutely.
> > Especially in the leadership catagory.
>
>
> "Dude Seriously" Right back at ya
> Treasure...You're forgetting, The 'Superbowl Team'
> Marino 'walked into' was only in the super bowl
> because of the 1982 strike. They got there by
> winning 7 games and playing a special 3 rd
> 'tournament'. 'Made Woodley look good'...really?
> He didn't complete a SINGLE PASS in the second
> half of that super-strike bowl. If Woodley looked
> so good why did Shula take a QB with his first
> pick the next year?
>
> Can Tannehill improve? Sure, Ryan Mallet COULD
> improve but are you seriously ready to wait
> another 2 or 3 or 5 years just to have a guy with
> a little more maturity and leadership but who has
> little pocket presence, spotty accuracy,
> questionable decision making and now a 30 year old
> arm?

****************************************************

Why did Shula take a QB if Woodley looked so good? Because it was Marino sitting there.

As a person who sat up in the Rose Bowl watching that Super Bowl where Woodley did not complete a pass in the second half, it brings back ole memories.

BUT, BUT, BUT, we STILL would have won that SuperBowl had not JOE THEISMAN MADE THE DEFENSIVE PLAY OF THE GAME.

The Redskins were back on about inside their own 10.

Theisman goes back to pass.

Bokamper or Duhe then did what they had been doing all season and that is to bat the ball as soon as it left the QBs hand.

It went straight up in the air.


As Bokamper and Duhe had been doing all year....they stood underneath it to catch it.

Bokamper or Duhe had the ball in their two hands in the endzone AND JOE THEISMAN PULLED IT DOWN TO BECOME AN INCOMPLETE PASS.

On to your question Cap. You have to remember that in that next drafts there were SIX TOP QUARTERBACKS.

Not only Marino but John Elway, Todd Blackledge, Tony Eason, Jim Kelly, and Kenny O'Brien.

Guess what, Marino went last of the six and he was best of the lot.

That game is second only to the Oakland Clarence Davis game (and maybe the SD playoff game) as the hardest game I've ever had to watch. As far as Woodley goes, he was what he was. A very good athlete who was never going to be a great QB. I couldn't help but pull for him, though, because he came out of nowhere to become the starter. He had some decent games too. The whole WoodStrock thing was another example of how brilliant Shula was. He took what he had and made it better. The true sign of a hall of fame coach.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As a person who sat up in the Rose Bowl watching
> that Super Bowl where Woodley did not complete a
> pass in the second half, it brings back ole
> memories.
>
> BUT, BUT, BUT, we STILL would have won that
> SuperBowl had not JOE THEISMAN MADE THE DEFENSIVE
> PLAY OF THE GAME.
>
> The Redskins were back on about inside their own
> 10.
>
> Theisman goes back to pass.
>
> Bokamper or Duhe then did what they had been doing
> all season and that is to bat the ball as soon as
> it left the QBs hand.
>
> It went straight up in the air.
>
>
> As Bokamper and Duhe had been doing all
> year....they stood underneath it to catch it.
>
> Bokamper or Duhe had the ball in their two hands
> in the endzone AND JOE THEISMAN PULLED IT DOWN TO
> BECOME AN INCOMPLETE PASS.
>
> On to your question Cap. You have to remember
> that in that next drafts there were SIX TOP
> QUARTERBACKS.
>
> Not only Marino but John Elway, Todd Blackledge,
> Tony Eason, Jim Kelly, and Kenny O'Brien.
>
> Guess what, Marino went last of the six and he was
> best of the lot.

******************************************************

Chryen, my "question" was in response to the poster whom I was replying to.

Shula may have had Marino in the back of his mind, but no way in hell did he expect Dan to be there at Miami's pick. Naturally, Shula was thrilled.

Actually, Cap. Remember Marino was the last of the six picked. Elway, Kelly, Tony Eason, Boomer, and Todd Blackledge.

KB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> "Dude Seriously" Right back at ya
> Treasure...You're forgetting, The 'Superbowl Team'
> Marino 'walked into' was only in the super bowl
> because of the 1982 strike. They got there by
> winning 7 games and playing a special 3 rd
> 'tournament'. 'Made Woodley look good'...really?
> He didn't complete a SINGLE PASS in the second
> half of that super-strike bowl. If Woodley looked
> so good why did Shula take a QB with his first
> pick the next year?
>
> Can Tannehill improve? Sure, Ryan Mallet COULD
> improve but are you seriously ready to wait
> another 2 or 3 or 5 years just to have a guy with
> a little more maturity and leadership but who has
> little pocket presence, spotty accuracy,
> questionable decision making and now a 30 year old
> arm?


The fact that they made the Superbowl and 26 other teams didnt says to me that they had a decent team. And then They went again the next year in 84. Your right......it was luck.

Why did Shula take a QB in the first round!? Because Danny Fell like a Led Balloon to the 24th spot. He was the last chosen and no one expected him to fall that far. So Shula picked the best player available. he didn't trade for him. He was there and it obviously worked out.

Where are you getting that Ryan needs to wait 3-5 more yrs? He's ready now if we had a decent Oline. You want to take a chance on another Rookie and wait 4-5 yrs and lose all the money invested in such a young capable athlete? If you dont think Ryan is any good look at how Colin Kappernick , RGIII and even Luck are doing this season.

Dude really!!?

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Actually, Cap. Remember Marino was the last of
> the six picked. Elway, Kelly, Tony Eason, Boomer,
> and Todd Blackledge.

********************************************************

That's why I said Shula was thrilled Dan was still there. He never expected other teams would pass him up.

As far as other posters here complaining about RT, I can only say that if in next year's draft, if a Marino is sitting there when Miami picks, then grab him. Don't even take a breath.

However, the problem is, there just aren't that many Marinos around.

Well said. I see Cody Kessler USC is dropping. A late round grab might not be too bad.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well said. I see Cody Kessler USC is dropping. A
> late round grab might not be too bad.

*******************************************************

Kessler is a good example.

Everyone clamoring for the next great QB, and Kessler's name was up there.

So what happened?

Not so good after all.

Think about it.

Kessler enters the draft on a high, Miami somehow gets him, and he turns out to be mediocre. Watch out for the anti-RT fan base. "What the hell was the Miami FO thinkiing? Here we go again, another dud QB. This guy is in the Henne-Tanneyhill mold. Etc, etc."

Again, unless a Marino shows up on Miami's doorstep, we go with what we have, support him, and hope the FO can get some players to surround him, and as I said, on BOTH SIDES of the ball!

Yeah, but if we grab him after the 3rd round, what's the problem?

Remember when the Pats grabbed that 6th round guy called Tom Brady?

No one complained that they were wasting a 6th round draft choice but there would have been howls had he been selected in the first or second round.

If we're too stupid to use a 3rd round choice (LOL and it's not like we're great pickers anyway), then we deserve what we get.

There are QBs in the league right now that are going to be quality leaders. No one has the same time line on when it all fits together; leadership, pocket presence, deep ball, short ball with touch, long out pass, when to tuck & run & "SLIDE."

Favre & Rodgers weren't starters. The man who took St. Louis & Arizona to the SB. Long list. And yeah some are ready right out of college.

I just think it is so difficult to draft an eventual top 10 QB. How many thought Ben Roethlisberger would be so good? Obviously not many, if any thought Brady would amount to much.

Like many of this weeks posts have said, I believe what got many of these elite QBs to the next level was/is COACHING!!

KNick637

I also think the right coach can do that for TANN, which is why I think trading him or looking for his replacement in the draft will cause us to pass by the depth we need!

He is one trusted QB coach, HC, away from being the leader we all want!! 1) He has the talent; 2) Can make all the throws; 3) Can run really well; 4) Can get sacked 150 times in 3-4 years without tearing another ACL on each hit, & most importantly 5) He seems to choke under pressure!!

I think a good coach can show him the way. Or pick-up a veteran QB like Hasselbeck, Manning, to show him what leadership is. Was never done. He got drafted and was the starter; not ideal for a QB, then WR to stay on the field, then back to QB, but only for 2 years, IN COLLEGE.

KNick637

In hindsight, it may have turned out far better if Tannehill had sat on the bench for his rookie season instead of being thrown to the wolves to develop under the likes of Sherman and Philbin. A year of watching a veteran play and he would have been chomping at the bit to get on the field and play.

........................................

The Clown Show Continues



-

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah, but if we grab him after the 3rd round,
> what's the problem?

*********************************************************

No problem, Chryen. Good position to grab a QB.

How do you 'Coach' a guy to get rid of the ball in less than 2.1 seconds average with an almost 70% completion rate? (Brady this season). Being an NFL QB is just an inherent talent. And I agree it's hard to know based on college games who can get it done at NFL speed. But the fact is Last 12 SB's, 8 QB's 5 first rounders, 1 second rounder, 1 third rounder, 1 6th rounder. If you want a QB statistics say 1st round is the place to look. For every Tom Brady, there are 1000 Spurgeon Wynn's (last QB taken before Brady in the 2000 draft).

It's either the first round or late/undrafted, it seems. Drafting QB's with enough flaws to not be considered first round picks in the 2nd or 3rd round rarely pays off. As does trading up into the bottom of the 1st round to grab a guy you already passed on because they are still available.

The problem with the "Dan Marino Scenario" and attempting to repeat that as a strategy is that was a completely rare set of circumstances. You're looking for a player who had a great JR year but then a bad SR year. You're looking for that player to exist in a draft where 4 or 5 other players had better SR years and are drafted prior.

We've had examples of players having great JR years and poor SR years, Leinert and Locker come immediately to mind. Both players were still drafted Top 10 (Locker might have been just outside?), they didn't drop into the 20s. QB is at too high of a premium in today's NFL and there weren't enough other QB's with great SR seasons to push them down farther.

But there's no excuse for us to be sitting here with no hope on our roster. How many QB's have the Patriots drafted since they've had Tom Brady and they knew what they had (a HOF Q? I just looked it up.

2002 - Rohan Davey - 4th round
2003 - Kliff Klingsbury - 6th round
2005 - Matt Cassel - 7th round
2008 - Kevin O'Connell - 3rd round
2010 - Zac Robinson - 7th round
2011 - Ryan Mallet - 3rd round
2014 - Jimmy Garoppolo - 2nd round

Over the same period of time, needing a franchise QB, the Dolphins have drafted:

2001 - Josh Heupel - 6th round
2007 - John Beck - 2nd round
2008 - Chad Henne - 2nd round
2009 - Pat white - 2nd round
2012 - Ryan Tannehill - 1st round

With Tom Brady, the Patriots have drafted almost twice as many QB's as the Dolphins and the Patriots draft them whenever they think they can get somebody to improve the team.

The Dolphins, with no franchise QB, have only drafted 1 developmental prospect in Heupel, and the other picks have always been replacements. Henne to replace Beck, Tannehill to replace Henne (and we can debate, if you'd like, that White was a failed replacement for Henne).

I think this is the sort of thing that KB is referring to in regard to us not even really making an effort at the QB position.