Right. The plain reality is that we can do nothing until then. He's got the job now.

JoeFootball Wrote:
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> Vontae Davis left almost 3 years ago. You need new
> material. You may have to wait for week 1.


mike wallace? karlos dansby? reggie bush? basically anyone with a personality he can't handle and dumps and then they do well elsewhere. what is a coach for if he can't handle players?
and vonate left 2 seasons ago. not exactly ancient history especially since he's been playing at a pro bowl level since he left and we still have no idea who is starting opposite grimes

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The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Yeah, two of those were almost 3 years ago as well. Reggie Bush has not been as good as he was in Miami since he left...or as healthy.

You think Mike Wallace, Vonate Davis and Dansby were sent away because they had a personality? That's a pretty good word spin but not really the case.

I would like to see JP able to handle the different personalities as well but I don't really care if they are replaced with good players. Ireland failed in that aspect BUT he is gone too.

Maybe you don't remember when Dansby showed up fat and out of shape after getting paid. It seems the thing that motivates him is the risk of not getting paid...or traded. These were Ireland moves as much as JP and yes, he failed to replace them for the most part...or replaced them with inferior/terrible players.

Maybe you don't remember VD showing up drunk/hungover/late to practice the DAY BEFORE a game.

Maybe the fact he got shipped off, forced him to grow up.

I really don't care if unprofessional players are sent packing. That's the way it should be. I don't want idiots on the team just because they have talent. That's the "Patriot way". They can have the cheaters and murderers....for a while anyway.

There should be consequences to negative actions. Why wouldn't there be? Why make everyone else suffer while they wait on those idiots to get a clue? and yes, the rest of the team suffers. And they get resentful over favoritism or watching other players get away with bad behavior. What message does that send?

You think that's how you build chemstry?

You think Shula would have put up with that crap? Hell no! They would be gone as well.

I sure as hell don't care that a pouty ass, quitting WR was sent packing after he abondoned his teammates on the field....twice.

I'll take this years WR group over last years any day of the week.

The point is it's not all about JP. This is the most talented team we have had since I don't know when. If Philbin cannot win with this group, I will be right there with you....sending him out of town on a rail. They also have to stay relatively healthy....like the last time we went to the playoffs.

I can handle Philbin but I don't expect him to be Don Shula any more than I expect Tannehill to be Marino. I think most people do and that's why they are dissatisfied.

Even the great "Don" had a 4 year period where he went 8-8 or worse. That doesn't mean Philbin will be great but it does prove that you need talent to win....and Shula even had Marino during that time.

someone just please name me one good thing philbin does as a coach. is it playcalling? leadership? motivation? serious question.

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The beatings will continue until morale improves.

develop players

Like who??

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The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Tannehill, Vernon, Miller, Charles Clay, Sims, etc. or don't those guys count?

Ryan Tannehill, Charles Clay, Reshad Jones, Brian Hartline, Lamar Miller, Jelani Jenkins, Derrick Shelby, Terrence Fede, Jarvis Landry, Ja'Wuan James, Nolan Carroll, Chris Clemons, Dion Sims, Chris McCain, Olivier Vernon

Main player of all those is tannehill. If he doesnt get to the next level every thing else is mute.

We will not get anywhere is he doesnt get to the next level.

funny how the o players did not really improve till we got Lazor in there and that was a move forced on JP who would not let go of his incompetent buddy Sherman.
the rest of that list is middling at best and he gets no credit for D IMO. not buying it.

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The beatings will continue until morale improves.

I dont hate Philbin but I do kind of agree with Berk, what has he really done or what is he really good at... I think he has proven to be mediocre/avg at best thus far... I guess the one good thing that I like that he did was hire Lazor, Which led to a lot more points being scored last year compared to previous years.. That was ultimately a move under his control.. Even though he didn't want to fire Sherman, he hired the right guy that helped scoring and Tannehills development

The major dislike was all that Kodak play call crap that cost us the Green Bay game... I guess his personality is a positive and a negative.. He doesn't get very excited and is pretty even keeled, there are positives and negatives to that.. It is good to be even keeled but at the same time, I don't feel like I would follow Philbin into a bathroom let alone a "field of battle"..

Ultimately a coach who hasn't had a winning season during his tenures, deserves the criticism.. I also don't like how the team has finished out the last 2 seasons under his leadership, it seems like the team gave up the last 2 years... That is a reflection on him and not a good one IMO... I am not trying to be part of the bash Philbin club, but he brings the criticism on him self with the results he has produced over his tenure here in Miami...

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

exactly crowder

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The beatings will continue until morale improves.

"Exactly Crowder" ???? LOL...because that sums up the history of your stance on Philbin???....NOT exactly.

Philbin is an average QB because he is basically 8-8? Ok...That's fair. He has not exactly set the league on fire with innovation.

I am not a huge Philbin fan but when ridiculous statements are made, I will call them out for what they are. If you are going to fault him for 8 losses then you have have to give him credit for 8 wins. He has split games with Bellichick every year BTW. (Rex Ryan was 1-5 during that time).

Saying he has done absolutely NOTHING and deserves NO credit is the ridiculous part.

Just as Tannehill should never be graded solely on wins and losses, Philbin should not be either. He is also dependant on the GM to give him talent. I have not seen an abundance of that in Miami for many years. When he does get a few pieces, they have ended up on IR or the training room and inneffective.

We have NEVER been deep enough to withstand the loss of a Pro Bowl caliber player. Let alone 3, 4 or 5 of them. There are teams that can do that. We are not one of them. Seattle, SF, GB, NE, etc.

This 2015 team is as talented on both sides of the ball as I have seen it in 20 years. I will judge Philbin by how we perform THIS year IF we stay relatively healthy. That being said, we still have holes to fill.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2015 07:17AM by JoeFootball.

And how do you give Philbin kudos for hiring Bill Lazor and then critisize him for the play calling that Lazor is in charge of?

KodaK play calling cost us the game?

That GB game was lost thanks to Finnegan (and the secondary) falling asleep ON DEFENSE on the final play.

I don't understand.

In that GB game we had them on the ropes they were out of time outs, very little time on the clock, we had stopped them on 3 straight plays, it was 4th down, GB was rushing to get lined up, they were pretty much a mess and Philbin called a timeout. It allowed Aaron Rodgers to regroup, get settled, meet with his coaches, run a perfect play for them after discussing it with his coaches.. And miraculously after stopping them 3 times in a row, once we called a time out Rodgers got his second wind, looked like a new man and burned us on that 4th down attempt, which kept his drive alive... That was a horrible call by Philbin.. Philbin said, it is called Kodak, they wanted to see how they lined up, then call a timeout so they knew how to defend them.. The problem is it allowed them to regroup and give Aaron Rodgers times to call a different play and discuss his options with is coaching staff.. HE wasn't under time constraint to get the ball snapped and lined up, etc... That was moronic, we had Rodgers on the ropes, and we backed away and let him regroup... And guess what he smoked us... Philbin was destroyed by everyone across the board for that move, there is no debating that was a bumbled call by him.. Also it wasn't Finnegan who ultimately got beat, I am pretty sure it was Wheeler who got beat by the TE on the score...

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Miami was also up by 4 with 1 minute left, 4th down and Finnegan falls down, ball complete to Jordy Nelson for a first down. Stop that play and game is over. We win. But no they give up 18 yards on 4th and 10.

It was also Finnegan who failed to cover or tackle on the fake spike with 10 seconds left (2nd and 6). 16 yards out and they made it to the 4 yard line on that play. Stop that play and the chances are good we win because the clock was running...

and yes it was Wheeler in coverage on the TE for final score. I would blame Philbin more for having him in the game and in coverage than for a few timeouts.

I do not believe that it was "across the board" opinions for the "kodaking". I do remember several saying it was no big deal and that "the players still have to execute".

I've seen many coaches do the same thing to get a look at how they line up...

I don't get caught up in these type of calls. If it works the HC is a genius and if it doesn't, he's a moron.

Games may come down to a few plays at the end but its the play over the course of the game that does more to determine the outcome, imo. It's never on one play but Finnegan sucked all day long. He gave up a TD earlier in the game while in double coverage on Randall Cobb.

That being said, Philbin needs to get better and learn from mistakes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2015 10:57AM by JoeFootball.

The first timeout was a non issue, look at the time that expired, they did run the clock down as far as it would go and (not sure why they didn't just kick the ball with a few seconds left but it surely didn't cost Miami the game) giving Rodgers an extra 5 yards would of been the dumber play.

The second timeout is the questionable one, clearly Philbin wanted to call the right play on 4th and 10.......clearly they didn't call the right play (or like Joe said the players failed to execute), without being on the field and knowing if the players were gassed or not I can't say if 100% it was the wrong call to stop the clock, but if you look at the time elapsed they did let some clock run down, maybe they wanted to change personnel or give the guys a breather and make sure they were all on the same page, again a split second judgement call, but not the colossal coaching failure that some would want you to remember it as.

The 3rd timeout was also a non issue, the clock was stopped because G bay went out of bounds on the previous play, I have zero problem with Philbin calling that timeout to make sure everyone was on board with what the coaches wanted.......I have alot of problems with who he had covering the TE and the execution by the defense.

Like Joe said, there was plenty of opportunities for the players on the field during that last drive to make a play and stop the Packers (all Finnegan had to do was tackle D Adams in bounds and the game is over), they didn't....time to move on.

I was at that game, when the timeout was called everyone in the fans were confused, saying I thought GB was out of time outs.. When it was realized we actually called the time out, there was complete disbelief in the stands among the fans. We had the advantage, we had momentum, one of the most powerful thing in all of sports, and through Philbin's action we simply gave it away. It was a mistake and huge misjudgment at a critical point in a game against an elite QB/team.. All coaches make mistakes, to deny this was one of Philbins just seems ridiculous to me.. Like you will defend anything Philbin has done and are not being a true honest broker concerning judging him and his actions as our coach... The call isn't the end of the world, nor a reason to call for his firing, but it was undoubtedly a mistake...

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Which one Crowder? If it's the 2nd one you're talking about I agree it was questionable, but like I said not being on the field and seeing the body language of the players it's hard for me to say it was absolutely the wrong call, i've seen many other coaches make the same call

Yes Dolph, all I am talking about is timeout #2. When it was 4th down and ten on the 48 after we stopped them on 3 consecutive plays for zero gain.

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Fair enough Crowder, and don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he's a great coach or anything, but I just think the timeout thing was way overblown (and obviously to some still is), it was a split second judgement call that would of looked genius if the players just make a damn play.

I don't defend everything Philbin does. If you research some of my past posts you will see when I wanted him fired. I was constantly calling him out for being too stubborn on obvious issues. I thought he should have fired Sherman earlier and Coyle as well.

I just said (above) he messed up by even having Wheeler on the field AND in coverage...so partly Coyles fault for having Wheeler in coverage on a TE and Philbins fault for insisting on keeping PW as a starter. It would seem that we should have been in the nickel anyway so why was Wheeler in the nickel? He can't cover anybody.

I just tend to agree with Holic in that the timeout issue has been way overblown. Players playing was/is more relevant.

I know philbin is an intelligent guy. He wouldn't be a coach in the NFL if he wasn't. He is well respected around the the league. That's how he got the job. I'm just hoping he continues to learn and grow as a HC. It seems he has learned by his admittance that Coyle needs to simplify the defense....so there is hope.

I also realize Bill Bellichick had a worse record in his first 3 years with only 20 wins. He won 11 games in his 4th year and followed that up with two 5 win seasons. After that....13/14 double digit seasons with the lone season under being 9 wins.

He was not the game planning genius he is today, back in 1993.

I am not saying Philbin is the worse coach or some bum, I was just bringing up somethings that I didnt like that he did... And being at that particular game, in that moment, what happened bothered me.. It was one of the most heart wrenching, dissappointing losses I've had in a while from a Phins game, which is saying a lot...hahaha. Nothing less, nothing more... There was a collective WTF from the fans when that happened, it seemed wrong in the moment and prove to be wrong in retrospect... I still think Phlbin can get it together with the right roster.. And I agree, the roster takes some of the blame for his mediocrity....

The funny part is I dont blame Philbin for having Wheeler on the field for that final play.. IMO that is on Coyle not Philbin... But the timeout, that was squarely on Philbin... We lost momentum from that time out and never got it back.. Keeping momentum is far more valuable then the perceived advantage he was going to get from "Kodaking" in that moment, not to mention the game clock implications....

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2015 11:55AM by Crowder52.

I add to that......I hope he doesnt commit stupid mistakes like that again this year when the games are on the line.

Maybe we are just a game away or a play away from making playoffs and he does it again.

I dont trust him....Philbin needs to prove he belongs.

And my memory of this might fail me and/or I might be mixing it up with another play from an entirely different game but.................

someone mentioned if Finnegan had only tackled the guy in bounds instead of knocking him out of bounds on that play that would have help run out the clock...........but my memory is that Finnegan's momentum ITSELF was going out of bounds (meaning Finnegan was trying to not go out of bounds, not by choice but just by how it happened) and Finnegan made whatever grasp he could on the receiver to prevent him from slipping Finnegan's weak grasp and thus prevent a touchdown and that was why he pulled the Packer out of bounds because if he hadn't the Packer would have slipped his grasp and scored a touchdown.

The nfl.com has taken down all it's footage of all of last year's games so I can't go back and look but maybe some of you guys taped the game....ON VHS (hee, hee).