Ian Rapoport ?@RapSheet 16s16 seconds ago

Details —> RT @viccarucci: The #Bills’ offer to Clay is for 5 yrs and $38 million. More than $20 million guaranteed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/07/2015 06:51AM by JoeFootball.

Alex Marvez ?@alexmarvez 2m2 minutes ago

As @AdamHBeasley says, @MiamiDolphins decision to use transition rather than franchise tag on Charles Clay to save $1.2M has backfired

Albert Breer ?@AlbertBreer 11m11 minutes ago

Smart of Bills to inflate Clay's 2016 cap number. Suh's cap charge for '16 is $28.6 million. And Tannehill's '16 option costs $16.2 million.

Nice knowing ya Charles! Dirty pool by Bills.

I don't understand why we are forced to structure the contract the same way as long as he gets the same guaranteed money.

dumb they would have gotten draft picks in return. Now they get nothing.

Actually....Clay has not signed the tender yet so he could...if he wants still sign a contract with Miami with a different structure AND for less money and still not lose money on the deal...since we have no state tax.

Something like...

5 years, 35 mil, with 20 mil guaranteed. 15 mil bonus.

2015 bonus: 3 mil, base: 4 mil, 7 mil cap hit
2016 bonus: 3 mil, base: 3 mil, 6 mil cap hit
2017 bonus: 3 mil, base: 4 mil, 7 mil cap hit

voidable at this point with 6 mil in dead space, no further money paid.

2018 bonus: 3 mil, base: 4 mil, 7 mil cap hit
2019 bonus: 3 mil, base: 5 mil, 8 mil cap hit



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2015 03:11PM by JoeFootball.

I am all for the Bills paying Clay 24.5 million over the first 2 years... Nothing backfired, we got a division rival to grossly over pay for a player... Fine with me, move on... Charles is great but he has injury concerns and is no where near worth over 12 million a year...

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

JoeFootball Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Albert Breer ?@AlbertBreer 11m11 minutes ago
>
> Smart of Bills to inflate Clay's 2016 cap number.
> Suh's cap charge for '16 is $28.6 million. And
> Tannehill's '16 option costs $16.2 million.
>
> Nice knowing ya Charles! Dirty pool by Bills.
>
> I don't understand why we are forced to structure
> the contract the same way as long as he gets the
> same guaranteed money.


Clay forced that by signing the offer. We have to match the offer he signs. If he'd really wanted to be here he would have come back to us and said their offer is 5/38m with 20 guaranteed and worked out a structure on the contract that helped the teams cap that he wanted to play for. He'd still get the same money.

I'd match this deal. If he's getting $26m over the first 2 years then he's getting 12m over the last 3 years (bargain).

Matching means we bite the bullet this year and then we part ways with Cameron after this season and draft a TE next year. His big money will be gone when just when it comes time to decide whether to pay Sims or let him walk.

We can always go to him later and ask him to restructure.


Match the deal. @#$%& the Bills.

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dumb they would have gotten draft picks in return.
> Now they get nothing.


If we'd franchised him, the bills would never have signed him. It would have cost them 2 first round picks.

JoeFootball Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Actually....Clay has not signed the tender yet so
> he could...if he wants still sign a contract with
> Miami with a different structure AND for less
> money and still not lose money on the deal...since
> we have no state tax.
>
> Something like...
>
> 5 years, 35 mil, with 20 mil guaranteed. 15 mil
> bonus.
>
> 2015 bonus: 3 mil, base: 4 mil, 7 mil cap hit
> 2016 bonus: 3 mil, base: 3 mil, 6 mil cap hit
> 2017 bonus: 3 mil, base: 4 mil, 7 mil cap hit
>
> voidable at this point with 6 mil in dead space,
> no further money paid.
>
> 2018 bonus: 3 mil, base: 4 mil, 7 mil cap hit
> 2019 bonus: 3 mil, base: 5 mil, 8 mil cap hit


If he didn't sign it yet, then perhaps he really does want to be here.

$38mill for 5 years is 7.6 m a year. Its basically what we just gave Cameron.

Will be interesting to see what the real story is at this point.

Dosen't matter in the slightest now, he's as good as gone...we won't match the offer.

is it really such a big deal? he's not worth that money or more than 7mm per year. he's not really a true TE either. I'm OK with Cameron if healthy, another vet at a small salary, maybe a draft pick if someone good falls to us in the 4th, and the cap savings.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

THE Truth Wrote:
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> Match the deal. @#$%& the Bills.


Are you nuts or did St Patricks Day festivities get the best of you already? Let him walk, the Bills just paid Clay pretty much Gronkowski money.... He is probably the 2nd highest paid TE in football.. That is a move we use to make under Ireland... Hopefully never again..... Pay a guy like he is the top at his position, when he has never been the top of his position? That is foolish IMO.. That was a desperation move by the Bills IMO...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Cap hits for 2015

Jerry Hughes: 6.2 mil

LeSean McCoy: 5.5 mil

Percy Harvin: 6 mil

Matt Cassell: 5 mil

Charles Clay: 10-12 mil

Incognito: 1 mil

Jerome Felton: 1.75 mil

That's about 35-37.45 mil just with these signings.

They are idiots. it seems Rex gets in the owners ear wherever he goes. These big spending sprees NEVER work in the NFL...and they still don't have a QB!!!!

F-em. They can have Clay. They paid him more than McCoy or Harvin...for a TE!

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Match the deal. @#$%& the Bills.
>
>
> Are you nuts or did St Patricks Day festivities
> get the best of you already? Let him walk, the
> Bills just paid Clay pretty much Gronkowski
> money.... He is probably the 2nd highest paid TE
> in football.. That is a move we use to make under
> Ireland... Hopefully never again..... Pay a guy
> like he is the top at his position, when he has
> never been the top of his position? That is
> foolish IMO.. That was a desperation move by the
> Bills IMO...


Salaries are going up in the NFL. the cap has gone up 10m each of the last 2 years and is projected to go up at least that much next year.

Its not about how much a guy makes or what you think his value is today. Its about what the market is to sign him and whether you can get him under the cap without crippling your ability to fill other holes in your roster.

If clay makes 13m a year this year and next and you pay the $20m in guaranteed money the first two years you can walk away after two years with no cap hit going forward.

If you match clay it means you cut Cameron after this year and you have Clay making big money next year with Sims, Lynch and a draft pick making very little. Overall, the so you'd have maybe 14M tied up in TE next year, which is what you thought it would be if we got clay at $7.5 this year.

Then the last 3 years he's a bargain at $4M and you can use the $9m million savings to re-sign Sims and/or bring in a better TE.

I boils down to this:

The average annual salary is $7.6m a year. That's not unreasonable. So there are two questions you need to answer when deciding to match or not:

1- Is $20 mill in guaranteed money too much for an H-back?

2- Would this contract cripple your ability to sign players in FA this year and next or force us to avoid re-signing more important pending 2016 FA's like Pouncey, RT, Vernon, etc....

I don't know enough about our cap situation next year to be sure, but we have 23m in dead money this year that we get back and a bunch of other cap space too boot.

I don't care about the guaranteed money all being in the 1st two years. Its Ross' and he likes to spend it.

Some numbers for next year:

if the cap goes up another $10m its at 153m. Our contractual obligations are 117m for 39 or so players.

That includes Suh's huge number and big salaries for aging, injured and under performing players like:

Wake, Grimes, Cameron, Jones, Misi, Mitchell.

There's uwpards of another 35m there if you want it. We need to sign RT, Pouncey and Vernon.


We can absorb this contract if we want.

bye bye Clay hope Tannenbaum throws this hand in.Jordan has to raise his game this year. Should we now go after Brandon Spikes? I did not want to pay him max since he is strictly a run stopper but we do need a run stopping mlb and a true mlb at that.

JoeFootball Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Alex Marvez ?@alexmarvez 2m2 minutes ago
>
> As @AdamHBeasley says, @MiamiDolphins decision to
> use transition rather than franchise tag on
> Charles Clay to save $1.2M has backfired

Anyone still think that 8 mil franchise tag would have been a mistake? Now we are left with one returning receiver. Could have had time to work out a LT deal and not had the pressure of outside offers? Stupid stupid move.

Too much. he's not worth even $7M Take the $7M and other cap room get Dashon Goldson , Patrick Robinson , Maybe Greg Jennings. Take parker or Strong at 14. Well played Phins

jlyell13 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Too much. he's not worth even $7M Take the $7M and
> other cap room get Dashon Goldson , Patrick
> Robinson , Maybe Greg Jennings. Take parker or
> Strong at 14. Well played Phins

Neither is Cameron Jordan. The guy left games last year with concussion symptoms without being hit and we just gave him 15mm for 2 years. We'll be lucky if he plays 5 games. But hey, he's a big name so you go Tannenbaum!

We have QB entering the most important year of his career and we're hemorrhaging talent on offense.

We still haven't addressed the Oline and we've lost our 4 of our QBs top 5 targets from last year.

This should be interesting to see if Tannenbaum takes the bait, we obviously didn't think Clay was worth that kind of money or we would of just offered him that before or tagged him, the only way we match that offer is if Tannebaum gets in a good old fashion pissing match with Rexy boy and doesn't wanna let him win. Just to stick it to Rex I'd wait the full 5 days though.

I say let him go for that kind of money, make WR a top priority (1st/2nd rnd) and/or draft a better receiving RB option, Clay was never a true TE anyway. Two years ago we were all up in arms about how would we survive without Keller then Clay broke out, lets not underestimate Sims either.

You're right. We have to let him go and find talent in the draft. Draft a LB like Stephone Anthony or Eric Kendricks who can cover players like Clay.

With the defensive line we will have, we can utilize linebackers who can run all over the field and fly around and make plays. Faster the better.

Have to go WR in the first unless we take a shot at Gurley then WR in 2.

It really sucks they gave up a 3rd round pick to get rid of Ellerbe. Another stupid move because now we don't really have the option to go after those LB's listed above.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/18/2015 03:04AM by JoeFootball.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> samsam3738 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > dumb they would have gotten draft picks in
> return.
> > Now they get nothing.
>
>
> If we'd franchised him, the bills would never have
> signed him. It would have cost them 2 first round
> picks.

Exactly.

Let Clay walk...

Then draft a WR in Rd #1...Amari Cooper, DeVante Parker, Jaelen Strong or DGB.

Then in Rd #2 we take a CB...Kevin Johnson, PJ Williams, Jalen Collins, Byron Jones, Steven Nelson, Djoun Smith or Alex Carter.

Then in Rd #4 we take an ILB...Ben Heeney, Denzel Perryman, Ramik Wilson or wait and take Brice Hager in the 5th.

Then we can use the rest of our picks to bolster our depth roster wide.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/18/2015 04:50AM by Ken.

They talking about perryman going in the 2nd or so....is this the one from UM?

Yes Miami Fl. I took those players based upon thier post combine draft projections. CBS has him as a 3rd round guy..players will of course move up or down as we get closer to the draft.

Jaelen Strong had trouble getting separation in college. I have my reservations that he will be able to do it in the pros.

DGB is going to be a project, IMO. VERY raw. I doubt he sees the field as quickly as Landry did.

That is no better than a 2nd round pick to me.

Its obvious charles clay is about the money....Let him go....

the bills made sure to mess up his contract so it would take a bigger cap hit on the phins.

I hate that ryan piece of goo hambone.

I don't blame Clay for chasing the money. It was the difference of 11 million dollars. You HAVE to take that. Even if it means moving to Buffalo for a few years.

Miami only offered 6.75 mil per year (4 yr/27m total) with 15 guaranteed. That's about all he's worth at this point.

Hopefully the Bills screwed themselves!

No way in hell Miami matches that.

If the football gods are smiling on Miami, Arthur Lynch and Dion Sims will have great years and eclipse Clay's production.

2015 headlines....."Charles who?"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/18/2015 06:52AM by JoeFootball.