Which you need to be to make playoffs.

A college rb with a repaired knee?

No thanks.

samsam3738 Wrote:
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> A college rb with a repaired knee?
>
> No thanks.

***************************************************

Frank Gore and Willis McGahee. Not bad for damaged knees.

I guess it depends on who will have an immediate impact at 14. Is a DB going to get much pt as a rookie vs an RB or WR?

This is a do or die year for hickey and philbin. I don't see them drafting early for long term. I see them going with the guy that makes the biggest impact THIS year and I don't see that with a DB.

A game changer.

Melvin Gordon.

I think Gurley is a luxury pick for a team that can afford to wait for a contribution. I also don't see any CB's to get excited about. Especially when you consider that rookies don't play in Coyle's defense.

Whoever the first pick is will need to have a great football IQ, work ethic and be healthy and ready to go from day one. What CB is that this year? The best guy (Peters and maybe Shaw) are character risks. The other (Waynes) needs time to develop.

We need more than "fine" from our WR's. Hartline was not the same receiver for whatever reason and you CANNOT ignore the fact that he is the #4 option making 7.5 mil. That's not money well placed. It is needed elsewhere....like to sign Clay, who actually makes plays and points.

The number one priority for the offense should be to find a guy who can score points and produce those RAC yards.

I know guard is a big need but a WR who can take the short pass and turn it into points is a must if you find a guy you believe in.

Jordan is not progressing as a pass rusher. It was a projection coming out of college. He did not do it much in Oregon. McCain has shown more in that one area in a limited amount of time. I am not convinced about him either but he has flashed. more than I can say for Jordan as a pass rusher.

This offense needs a jump start. WR or RB is the way to do that IMO. This draft is deep in RB's and probably more value in a WR in round 1. It's a lot easier to find a legit RB late in the draft. Not so much at WR. besides if Lazor is only going to run 15 times a game, what's the use?

captkoi Wrote:
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> samsam3738 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > A college rb with a repaired knee?
> >
> > No thanks.
>
> **************************************************
> *
>
> Frank Gore and Willis McGahee. Not bad for damaged
> knees.

Adrian Peterson?

Gurley would be a GM pick to force coaches to run more and pass less, thus reducing interceptions, sacks, sack fumbles, and keeping the defense keyed away from the pass.

Mike Mayock has Gordan as his number 1 RB.

This is because of the pay later contracts. Well, it's later. Dawn Aponte should be ashamed of herself. I'm sure Irleand had a hand in it but ultimately it's on her.

That's what happens when you pay a guy like Wallace 3.5 mil in the first year and then have to make up for it every year after. Same with just about every contract they handed out during the Ireland days. Ellerbe, Wheeler, Reshad Jones, etc. The guaranteed money is what really hurts.

It's not as bad as it looks on paper because most of the big contracts are from players that won't be returning anyway.

We'll have 30 mil before March 10th.

tsstamper Wrote:
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> If his production isn't worth the cost, what might
> you suggest instead of cutting him?

This really isn't a talent issue IMO. His production was down in Lazor's offense. Was it due to Landry? Or how they were using him? His production is measured by more than just receptions...

I think the Dolphins ought to be in the business of collecting good players. Hartline is a good player, a legit NFL starter who was paid fairly relative to his proven talent.

Now if he is amenable to a restructured deal, then great. But cutting him shouldn't be in their thought process.

We shouldnt cut the few good players that we have.

Hartline was paid based on a fairly strong season in 2012 when he had 1083 yards but only 1 TD. Most thought he earned a contract extension and like many WR's his break through came in year 4. I would have to think the contract was based on potential....the fact that the light finally seemed to come on. He had an improvement the next year to 4 TD's and similar yardage. The progression stopped in 2014. Not only did it stop, it regressed.

The hope was that he build on those seasons and hopefully score more points. That meant upping his TD's into the 8-9 range of an upper tier #2 WR. He did not do that.

One factor may have been the knee surgery but who knows if he ever recovers from that. Keeping him should be based on how much the knee affected him in 2014 AND how much it will affect him in the future.

Like I said, he was rewarded based on potential (as it usually is in the NFL). If the potential has topped out then he is not worth the money. Enough mediocrity. We need point scorers. Especially at that price (7.5 mil). Talent is definitely the issue.

If you don't think he is capable of another 1k yard season and 9 TD's then you have to say goodbye.

Also, Hartline was our #1 WR we when signed him to that contract.......and I don't really mean that as a compliment. I do agree though that we have to have a good plan to replace if we do cut him lose, but no way he's worth the 7 mil price tag.

He made 8.32 mil over the last two years. That's about what he's worth, IMO. 4 mil per year tops.

If we pay him 7.35 this year it raises the average to 5.22 mil per year over three 3 years. Not too bad but it's the 7.35 number that hurts.

Also not great value for a guy who scored 7 TD's over that span.

JoeFootball Wrote:
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> One factor may have been the knee surgery


Yes, and we've seen many Dolphins take an extra year to come back from severe knee injuries. I think Landry's emergence also played a part. No question he took receptions away from Hartline.

Hartline is a good player and the Dolphins ought to be in the business of finding and keeping good players.

Agreed but not at the sacrifice of better talent.

Key word in that above sentence...."TOOK". Landry took receptions.... a rookie who produced more with 132 fewer snaps.

If his knee were an issue then he should not have been on the field.

Like I said the FO will have to make a judgement call on his potential going forward. How long do we get by with "good" players? 8-8, enough said.

JoeFootball Wrote:
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> How long do
> we get by with "good" players? 8-8, enough said.


The biggest problem with the Dolphins is that they don't have enough good players, and the ones they do acquire are not protected. Going all the way back to the Wannstedt years, we can lament all the good players that have left, been waived, and been traded only to go and help other teams win championships.

Don't think for one minute that the Falcons aren't lamenting their decision to let Brent Grimes leave.

So my point...a point I've made repeatedly during this dark walk the Dolphins have been on...is that the front office has failed us because they don't acquire and retain enough good talent. Hartline is a good player, perhaps overpaid, but a good player. So is Landry. So is Mike Wallace. They need more guys like that, not fewer. Cutting good players like Hartline won't make the Dolphins better.

It will (make us better) if you sign the right player to replace him. For instance, a FA who starts compared to your 4th receiving option.

It's a saving of 6 mil. Take that money and put it towards someone who will make a larger contribution. Dan Williams, Chris Culliver, Orlando Franklin.

6 mil will just about cover their cap hit for a year.

How much would we have actually missed Hartline last year if he was gone?

How much of a difference would a top run stuffing NT like Williams have helped our defense?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2015 01:21PM by JoeFootball.

I do agree it's not a talent issue with Hartline, though it might have been a lingering knee healing issue, and that the Phins should be in the business of finding and keeping talented players, if possible.

Preferably, they'd perpetually be in the business of finding and developing talented players because keeping every talented player they find, assuming they're any good at finding them, just isn't economically possible.

Landry makes 10% of Hartline's salary and, for whatever reason, exceeded his production by a good bit in 2014...having more TD than Hartline has in any single season. If Hartline returns to form and posts 1000 yards and 3 TD (perhaps a little generous, given 3 straight 1-TD seasons from 2010-2012, but average for 2013 & 2014)...then I still don't know if he's worth $7.35 million. If there's a repeat of 500/2 TD, then that production - even if there are other elements of that contribute to his overall production - just isn't worth that money.

By average per year, he has the 19th highest-paying WR contract per overthecap.com. It's not his fault that Wallace has the 3rd highest, but Hartline has not performed like the kind of receiver that nearly 1/2 the teams in the league would want as their #1. Almost every receiver listed by salary above him and many below him are.