We all know it was not a strong point for the team this year. Everyone underachieved. I have been doing a bit of research (as much as you can do on the internet) on this to try and understand why this unit was so ineffective.

What has changed?

Well, the offensive scheme for one. It's not that much of a departure from the WCO except...

name of plays (no more spider-y-2 banana, stuff)
read option built in (one play)
depth of WR routes
3 WR base set opposed to 2 WR with TE and H-back

In 2012, Hartline was the #1 WR. He lined up mainly from the right side. He also played the flanker spot. Hartline had 118 targets.

Davone Bess #2 and slot. 70/96 targets from the slot plus 527 yards and 1 td from the slot. Our #3 was a mixture of about 4 or 5 other players.

With Hartline as the flanker, he lined up to the same side as the TE but was able to play back from the LOS. Often times Bess played a combo split end/ slot role in that he lined up on the LOS but ran slot routes. He had to in order to keep 7 players on the line in that formation.

Jump to 2014 and now Hartline is the Split end, Wallace the flanker and Landry as the slot. Clay is now the TE as opposed to H-back. The split end is stuck on the LOS opposite the TE. He cannot go in motion.

A few of the main requirements of a split end...

has the speed to get down the sideline
the quickness to get away from the corner
be good getting off a press coverage

Did Hartline have any of these traits this year? Think of some of the bigger name SE's in the league....Terrell Owens, Randy Moss, Larry Fitzgerald, Jordy Nelson, Brandon Marshall....

I think he may have been able to get by in the past but not coming off the torn ACL that didn't happen until the last game of 2013.

In Shermans wonderful offense he also played every snap on the left side in 2013 with Wallace 100% on the right.

That means that depending on the play/formation Wallace was restricted to be on the LOS if the TE lined up left.

From what I am reading now from people who have studied the all-22 tape (of 2014) is that Hartline was sloppy in his routes (rounded corners), not as quick and was too easy to cover in that one CB could beat him in press or just by sitting on his routes because they did not respect his ability to get deep. He was rarely open.

This is not good when he is your #2 WR and 2nd option in the progression. Just a waste of time....and Hartline played more snaps than any other receiver. Go figure.

He also ran one route more than any other. The 9 route of all things. He just didn't have the speed to pull this off. So you have Hartline running a go route and Wallace playing possession receiver from the flanker spot? Does not compute.

So it's not one thing (never is) but a combo of possibly not having full faith in his knee, playing on the LOS and getting figured out by DB's.

At this point I think we can only do one thing. Find a different #2 to play Split-end. Someone who can become the #1 and free Wallace up to go back to what he does best. Get deep. Tannehill will figure it out but they at least have to try and not abandon it altogether.

I don't think they can afford to cut or trade Wallace and it just wouldn't be wise. Work it out. Adapt, overcome.

I don't see Hartline giving up 4.2 mil to stay. He can go play somewhere else for 2 or 3 mil and still collect that money on top of it. So 7+ mil for 2015 or stay here for 2 mil? Not a tough choice if you're making a business decision. Possibly back home to Ohio where he owns businesses.

I think I am fully buying in to the idea of signed a DT and OG/OT in FA and drafting a WR @ 14.

I think we need a WR in the draft, but not a big #1 WR. We don't run 2 wide sets, power formation football as you said. Vertical game is only important to our system in the redzone. Right now we do not have that 50/50 WR throw-high, let-your-guy get vertical jump ball. But I do not think that Phins should draft a WR high for that.

I think Gibson should be cut because of freeing significant money in cap. He is the bigger rceiver, but does not provide a redzone target and is inconsistent in other aspect. He is also only a slot guy.

IMO, Phins should target one quick twitch, fast receiver, who can play both slot and boundary (in place of Wallace), create separation quickly, draw double teams, and provide quick target for RT. There will be Tyler Lockett, Dorsett, or Crowder in the third round. Phins already have some tall vertical WRs on the roster, but deep on chart, practice squad, UDFA guys. They can add some in UDFA this year as well.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2015 10:15AM by thegreathoo.

The Six things we HAVE to address this offseason be a playoff team (in order of importance) :

1- Address the two guard spots.
2- Find two or three wr's to replace Hartline, Gibson and maybe Wallace.
3- Re-sign Charles Clay
4- Find two DT's to replace Starks and Odrick.
5- Find a power back to pair with Miller
6- Find an extra edge rusher so we can move Jordan to OLB



I'd have zero issues if we went RB, WR, WR, OL/DT withour 1st 4 picks in the draft.

Gurley/Gordon, DG-B3 and Philip Dorsett and I'd be out celebrating the rest of the weekend!!


I would also be calling the Browns to see if I can get a decent pick for Hartline. With Gordon out, and rumors out there that they intend to they to trade up for Mariota, they are going to need a legit WR who can play right away and won't cost them a 1st oe 2nd round pick.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2015 02:45PM by THE Truth.

THE Truth Wrote:
------------------
>
> I would also be calling the Browns to see if I can
> get a decent pick for Hartline.


I agree, but don't you think that the Browns will be gun-shy about making trades with us after what happened with Bess? Someone else brought this up in a prior thread, so I don't want to take credit for thinking of this on my own.

What borscht.

(1) Our Gs, top to bottom, are dick, plain and simple!!! Back-ups are all that we have as starting Gs. I'd strongly go after ANY top F/A G who fits the z/b/s that MIAMI now uses. Our two best Gs would become our "back-up" Gs, and be paid accordingly. If they refuse a pay cut, give them a DIFFERENT kind of cut...after June 1st! They won't really be missed.

(2) Our DTs last season were exposed as the garbage that they truly are. MITCHELL=total dick. And STARKS, in the last few games especially, looked like he suddenly became old, and lost it (whatever "it" is)! God save us, because ODRICK was about all we had that was worth spit (expletive deleted), and he's more like a "Best Supporting Actor" than a "Best Actor" (if you can stand the Movies analogy). If ANYONE still believes that we didn't BADLY miss "Big PAUL" at DT last season, then all I can do is question your sanity! After all, everyone was successfully running against us, even some Bozo HBs!!! And a known, established STRENGTH of this Team's "D" just seemed to EVAPORATE into thin air!!!

(3) At CB, we have precisely THREE proven (or semi-proven) CBs at present. You mentioned them. But everyone else currently playing CB for MIAMI is either mediocre, an unknown quantity, or DICK!!! And we play N.E., and Mr. T BRADY TWICE! We need AT LEAST one more starting-calibre CB, or we'll get ripped up by the better teams of the NFL...starting with, but not ending with, N.E.! 'Nuff said!

(4) Our running game presently is an illusion! Losing MORENO really put us behind the proverbial "8-Ball" last season. I really HOPE that he makes a full recovery, because he is really skilled. Ad we need more at the HB position...INCLUDING a certain BIGTIME prospect out there (again, you all KNOW who I'm talking about). But, two POINTS: (a) a for-real FB would REALLY help us. C CLAY, who i/m/o is a lot quicker and absolutely much faster than you would think, could then do what he does best, namely, run pass routes as our pass-catching TE and give opposing DCs a terminal case of agita!!! And (b) NO HB excels w/o a topshelf O-ine. And THAT fact, fellow DOLFANS, leads us logically back to my first Point, above!

In conclusinon, i/m/o, MIAMI is CLOSE: a lot closer than a lot of people think! Just let MIAMI find another SOLIAI, another "burner", and a pair of topshelf Gs, and MIAMI is contending...NOT just for the Playoffs, but (i/m/o) for the Super Bowl.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2015 08:07PM by LUDUPORCU.

But:

1. You do realize that Pouncey played guard lasat year and sucked ass, because he was out of position. Smith was out with inury most of the year at LG, and Colledge played. Pouncey is going back to C, and Colledge is out to FA. Smith was tremendous in the ZBS, our best blocker. Thomas was excellent at RG during the season, but unfortunately played at RT. Finally, we were depleted at OL and guys were running out of stamina late in games and late in the season.

2. Our running game with Miller is not an illusion. It is excellent due to excellent Oline blocking and good running by Miller. Ppl say Oline sucked. Yes it did, in pass pro, but it was excellent in ZBS.

3. ODrick played 800 snaps, had 1 sack and 30 tackles. Mitchel and Starks each with 500 snaps posted better numbers. Saying ODrick is better than Mitchel and Starks is an illusion.
It is also an illusion to say we miss Soliai. We need a more productive DT than ODrick, that is for sure. The way to get one is to find one with better explosion (a la Aaron Donald), a better 3 tech, not a slow gap plugger.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2015 08:17PM by thegreathoo.

IF what Joe says is true then it sounds like Wallace and Hartline should flip positions. That would solve that.

JC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE Truth Wrote:
> ------------------
> >
> > I would also be calling the Browns to see if I
> can
> > get a decent pick for Hartline.
>
>
> I agree, but don't you think that the Browns will
> be gun-shy about making trades with us after what
> happened with Bess? Someone else brought this up
> in a prior thread, so I don't want to take credit
> for thinking of this on my own.

I don't think one has anything to do with the other but I do have serious doubts about the Browns ability to make many smart decisions...other than getting a first for Richardson and schooling the Bills on the Watkins trade up.

Traded their own pick (4th overall) to Buffalo for a 2014 first-round pick (9th overall), a 2015 first-round pick, and a 2015 fourth-round pick.

Picked Justin Gilbert at No. 9.

Traded Indianapolis' first-round pick (26th overall) and their own third-round pick (83rd overall) to Philadelphia for their first-round pick (22nd overall) .

Picked Johnny Manziel at No. 22.

So while they are able to move around and get value, they don't seem to be able to select any good players.

I think they may even trade two first rounders this year to move up for Mariota...or spend #9 on another troubled WR like DGB.

They did manage to get lucky in the 2nd round (2014) with Bitonio. Other than that, I don't see much talent drafted since 2010.

2012 1st rounder on Weeden
2014 1st rounder on Manziel
2015 1st rounder on Maritoa?

LOL...."A" for effort, I guess.

I am lumping them together because they played by Odrick's side, it's one spot. The other spot was Odrick with his 800 snaps. Odrick's spot was useless. Odrick was the 3 tech disruptor, and useless. The other spot, even though not primarily a rusher was more productive, with Mitchel and especially Starks.

Money spent on Mitchel and Starks is fair. Spending that same or more money on Odrick would be crazy, because he does not produce as much. Even more crazy would be to resign Odrick and get Dan Williams as I've seen, both are low producers. And if Odrick is out of position, he needs to leave for a 3-4 team.

NT plugger is not a need. We need production, sacks, tackles, disruption, an explosive DT, not a NT body.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2015 09:56AM by thegreathoo.

JoeFootball Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> They did manage to get lucky in the 2nd round
> (2014) with Bitonio. Other than that, I don't see
> much talent drafted since 2010.
>
> 2012 1st rounder on Weeden
> 2014 1st rounder on Manziel
> 2015 1st rounder on Maritoa?
>
> LOL...."A" for effort, I guess.

Yeah...but I'll give them credit for this...it doesn't take them long to recognize the mistake and go after another QB.

I wasn't a big Weeden fan and I was one of the few who thought Manziel would be an NFL flop.

That said, Mariota has a better shot at being a franchise guy than Manziel and Weeden combined but I wouldn't want to be in a position to have to take him. He's got holes in his game that scare me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2015 01:57PM by THE Truth.

NT is not a need. LOL...

Tell that to the top defenses in the league that have one....and they all have one.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2015 12:57PM by JoeFootball.

Renaissance of Youth under Philbin:

We have

Miller, Williams
Tannehill
Sims (Clay), James, Turner, Pouncey, Smith, Landry, Matthews

It would be nice to see Matthews and Turner step up. If they nail the LT and WR again in the draft, they are set for 4 years on offense.

thegreathoo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Renaissance of Youth under Philbin:
>
> We have
>
> Miller, Williams
> Tannehill
> Sims (Clay), James, Turner, Pouncey, Smith,
> Landry, Matthews
>
> It would be nice to see Matthews and Turner step
> up. If they nail the LT and WR again in the
> draft, they are set for 4 years on offense.


I think the chances that Matthews is on this roster on opening day are less than 10%.

The only two guys right now who I'm at least 90% sure are on this team in September (barring injury) are Landry and Hazel.

I'd give Wallace about a 65% shot of being here.

50/50 for Gibson.

Less than 50/50 For hartline.

Geez, Matthews is young, our draftee and costs $700k, Gibson produces as much as Matthews and is paid 6x more. And, Hazel? If he was any good he would've seen some action. I don't get the 90% certainty on Hazel. I doubt they keep him just because Hickey drafted him. Matthews is better than Hazel and I don't see where Hazel fits, not even on the practice squad.

Because Philbin is sick of Mathews. He was a healthy scratch for the last two games because of behavior issues.

I'd say Gibson's chances are 2%, Hartline 30%...

...and we are drafting a LT in the draft? Maybe but not as an intended starter at that position. He must be able to "fill in" in about 3 positions and start at guard.

after 3 years matthews is the same wr as day 1. if he were in the plans they wouldn't have signed gibson or drafted landry so high.

matthews will go on to be a 4th or 5th wr elsewhere.

he's taking up roster space right now.

Mathews: I predict #2 WR for NE

thegreathoo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Geez, Matthews is young, our draftee and costs
> $700k, Gibson produces as much as Matthews and
> is paid 6x more. And, Hazel? If he was any good
> he would've seen some action. I don't get the 90%
> certainty on Hazel. I doubt they keep him just
> because Hickey drafted him. Matthews is better
> than Hazel and I don't see where Hazel fits, not
> even on the practice squad.

Read between the lines.

Matthews was in the staffs doghouse at the end of 2013 despite a few good games at the end of that season. He barely survived camp. He ended this season as a healthy scratch for the last 3 games after being late to meetings.

Hazel got a late season promotion to the 53 man roster to replace Matthews AND to prevent anyone from poaching him off the practice squad.

Hazel will replace Matthews as the "project" wr in the last spot on the depth chart.

Matthews only chance to be here next year is if we part ways with Wallace, Hartline and Gibson. Two of those guys are likely gone. I don't think all 3 get the axe.

The logical business decision is to cut Hartline and Gibson loose and keep Wallace, draft a WR at 14.

Cut Wallace loose next year. In the mean time groom another flanker.

This year....

Wallace
Kevin White, DGB etc.
Landry

JoeFootball Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The logical business decision is to cut Hartline
> and Gibson loose and keep Wallace, draft a WR at
> 14.
>
> Cut Wallace loose next year. In the mean time
> groom another flanker.
>
> This year....
>
> Wallace
> Kevin White, DGB etc.
> Landry

The only wr's I like at 14 are white and Cooper.

If they are gone, then trade down and take a wr later, if you have to get a wr in the first.

This is a deep wr draft. Instead of reaching for a wr at #14 I'd trade down to the mid 20's and take a guy like cam Erving then double down on wr in the 2nd (or later) with the pick(s) you get for trading down.