I have heard many talk about this issue and I fully concur. Our DT's are not getting it done in the current scheme.

Randy Starks is a disruptive 3 technique tackle who benefits most when he has a big body next to him to absorb blockers. He is not the guy to fight off double teams and that's what happened this year.

Earl Mitchell is not that big bodied NT even though that's where he played. (i have to place the blame for this signing on Coyle and Hickey). Will they learn from it? That remains to be seen.

Odrick is a FA but after re-thinking I don't think I would resign him unless it's a low deal. He will likely get paid from a team needing a steady 3-4 DE. The position he was drafted to play.

Maybe keep Starks since he is under contract. Lose Mitchell and bolster the NT spot with a draft pick or FA or both.

The problem lies with Starks age. Mitchell could possibly play the 3T but we still need a NT no matter what.

I would sign Dan Williams to play NT AND draft a 3T, depending on how the draft falls.

JoeFootball Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have heard many talk about this issue and I
> fully concur. Our DT's are not getting it done in
> the current scheme.
>
> Randy Starks is a disruptive 3 technique tackle
> who benefits most when he has a big body next to
> him to absorb blockers. He is not the guy to fight
> off double teams and that's what happened this
> year.
>
> Earl Mitchell is not that big bodied NT even
> though that's where he played. (i have to place
> the blame for this signing on Coyle and Hickey).
> Will they learn from it? That remains to be seen.
>
> Odrick is a FA but after re-thinking I don't think
> I would resign him unless it's a low deal. He will
> likely get paid from a team needing a steady 3-4
> DE. The position he was drafted to play.
>
> Maybe keep Starks since he is under contract. Lose
> Mitchell and bolster the NT spot with a draft pick
> or FA or both.
>
> The problem lies with Starks age. Mitchell could
> possibly play the 3T but we still need a NT no
> matter what.
>
> I would sign Dan Williams to play NT AND draft a
> 3T, depending on how the draft falls.

Spot on Joe.

The problem with Starks, Mitchell and Odrick is they all play the same position in this scheme.

Keep Mitchell, dump the others and go sign some beefy bodies in FA.

I would say we can't afford to keep both Misi and Wheeler if they are both at SLB. Part time players. Wheeler's contract dictates he stays.

4.8 mil for Misi and 4.4 for Wheeler.

SLB Wheeler
WLB Jenkins
MLB Tripp

JoeFootball Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would say we can't afford to keep both Misi and
> Wheeler if they are both at SLB. Part time
> players. Wheeler's contract dictates he stays.
>
> 4.8 mil for Misi and 4.4 for Wheeler.
>
> SLB Wheeler
> WLB Jenkins
> MLB Tripp


I must have a mental block when it comes to wheeler and tripp. I frequently type wheeler when referring to Tripp.

I'd start Jenkins, Tripp and Jordan. Misi, McCain and a vet/rookie as the back ups.



Weird.

Anyway...

We need to find a spot for Jordan, as he has shown some ability to cover TE's- something we haven't had in too long. Maybe we should give some consideration to replacing Misi- he's been solid, but has missed too much time. What? You want to keep Wheeler? Are you serious? Why?

Rick

need Jenkins, Tripp & McCain maybe Misi and a Terrence Smith Reggie Ragland in the draft

I'm not entirely sold on Jenkins. He started out strong but was not good down the stretch. Can he be a reliable full time starting play making WLB? that remains to be seen.

let misi walk and cut wheeler. restructure ellerbee or release him.

our linebackers are underwhelming. get mccain, jordan, and tripp in there with jenkins. sign a vet in FA and draft one.

I agree, get Jordan, Tripp, McClain and Jenkins on the field for the majority of the plays at LB. And if they are not going to us Jordan as a LB then rotate him with Wake, Shelby and Vernon at DE. Either way, six of those seven guys should be on the field for most plays.

I don't care how they do it, just get all of them on the field...and go out and find one or two DT's that can actually pass rush.

Then add a big bodied CB with speed and coverage skills in the draft and we should be set on defense...that allows us to draft defenders for depth and play making ability regardless of position.

Fixing the defense must start with new DC and his staff of position coaches. Being torched by Geno Smith and Teddy Bridgewater is unacceptable.

I admit that we have personnel issues, some guys like Finnegan and Dline quit. Wilson was a waste at the safety spot. We had injuries. But bottom line is, DC is awful!!

Once the new DC gets hirred, we can talk about cleaning the house from overpaid losers vets, Ireland signings, and other waste.

but is it the coach who says what he wants and then the coordinator just follows along? Would another guy make a huge difference?

I think it's good to delegate and let your coordinator's run their units. I think you have to do that or at least trust them enough to do that.... UNTIL their philosophy is not working. That's Philbin's problem. He is too loyal to "his guys" and doesn't get involved in the right areas at the right time. It's almost like he afraid to confront his "peers".

Just like when JP told Lazor to run when we should have been passing in the one key drive. Where the hell was he the rest of the season when we should have been running? That's one instance where he should have stayed out of it.

Getting a DC that can build the defense around the players strengths is what we need. I don't think Philbin does much with the defense. That's a problem when you obviously need to change.

The scheme is meaningless without good coaching. The guy who won SB MVP in Seattle wasn't even drafted. That GM in Seattle looks like a genius, because they have top notch coaching.

I watched Nevada last year with a bunch of undrafted guys dominate FSU who had top 50 Olinemen across the board, Jameis Winston #1 overall pick, Davonta Freeman who is the #1 back for the Flacons, O'Leary, KB.
I watched an ILB, Jonathan McNeal, for Necada blow up FSU #1 talent across the board last year. I don't think he is even ranked in the draft.

This year the Gators' D destroyed FSU, and Gators will hardly have any high picks on that D.

Defense is all about coaching and effort. We do not have defensive coaches in Davie, that's why we get destroyed by Geno Smith, and Teddy Bridgewater, and have no answers to 6 OL fronts. Until that gets fixed, nothing will get fixed.

"The guy who won SB MVP in Seattle wasn't even drafted."

What? Russell Wilson was the MVP wasn't he? He was drafted.

thegreathoo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The scheme is meaningless without good coaching.
> The guy who won SB MVP in Seattle wasn't even
> drafted. That GM in Seattle looks like a genius,
> because they have top notch coaching.

I'm not going to argue that we don't need a new DC. That has been my stance for a while now BUT

The GM in Seattle looks like a genius because he stocked the team with talented players who fit the scheme (thanks to McLoughlan). He found stud players that most of the so called experts deemed as reaches. You don't win consistently in the NFL without talent. Seattle is a good team because they have talent AND good coaches with an effective scheme that maximizes the talent of the roster.

> I watched Nevada last year with a bunch of
> undrafted guys dominate FSU who had top 50
> Olinemen across the board,

Didn't FSU win that game 62-7?

Jameis Winston #1
> overall pick, Davonta Freeman who is the #1 back
> for the Flacons,

Freeman is not the #1 back in Atlanta. He struggled to get 65 attempts all year. He's backing up a 31 year old starting RB.

O'Leary, KB.
> I watched an ILB, Jonathan McNeal, for Necada blow
> up FSU #1 talent across the board last year. I
> don't think he is even ranked in the draft.
>
> This year the Gators' D destroyed FSU, and Gators
> will hardly have any high picks on that D.

I guess, if you consider a 5 point win and 24 points scored by FSU as being "destroyed". Cook from FSU ran for 144 yards. Winston did throw a lot of picks (4) but each team only scored 3 points each in the second half. Florida has about 4-6 players projected to be drafted this year. They had 4 drafted last year. Oregan had 4, FSU had 7

> Defense is all about coaching and effort. We do
> not have defensive coaches in Davie, that's why we
> get destroyed by Geno Smith, and Teddy
> Bridgewater, and have no answers to 6 OL fronts.
> Until that gets fixed, nothing will get fixed.

As in most areas in the NFL, you need to have both. We need better coaching and better talent. Great coaching will only mask talent deficiencies for so long before someone finds a way to exploit it. There are probably only a handful of coaches around the NFL that are good enough to overcome a lack of talent on a consistent basis.

Every team/league has upsets. A lower team competing or winning against a better team happens all the time. It's hardly a case that solely proves coaching is the reason.

We have had a top 10 defense (points) for the last two years (12 & 13) and dropped way off this year. We have been in steady decline in one area or another depending on who gets injured. All the same coaches, only the players were different.

My main complaint about the coaching is they don't build around the players. They make the players adapt. That, and the scheme is too complex for rookies and young players to earn snaps.

Like I said. Fire Coyle and get a better DC.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti in all fairness to the coaching staff "My main complaint about the coaching is they don't build around the players. They make the players adapt" it takes longer then 3 years to turn over the roster and get the guys you want.

I do agree totally with the scheme being to complex for everyone, let alone the rookies. to much thinking on defense is not good.

The Phins really need to do a better job of developing players. Im watching how undrafted DT's Johnson and Coleman contribute next year. These guys are gifts that dropped to us last year. Johnson carried a 2nd round grade and Coleman as high as 4. They dropped for whatever reasons. If the coaches get these guys ready we should not have to spend a high draft pick on a DT. Same w/ Tripp Aikens and McCain will they be ready to contribute?

Taylor Hazel Turner

JoeFootball Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> “I need obviously some time to think about some
> things,” Philbin said when asked about Coyle
> specifically and the staff overall. “The season
> just ended, but I haven’t made any decisions
> about any coaches for 2015, none of them.”
>
> JUST DO IT already!!!!

**************************************************

Geez, Joe, give the guy a break. It's only been two weeks.

mizzou15 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Phins really need to do a better job of
> developing players. Im watching how undrafted DT's
> Johnson and Coleman contribute next year. These
> guys are gifts that dropped to us last year.
> Johnson carried a 2nd round grade and Coleman as
> high as 4. They dropped for whatever reasons. If
> the coaches get these guys ready we should not
> have to spend a high draft pick on a DT. Same w/
> Tripp Aikens and McCain will they be ready to
> contribute?
>
> Taylor Hazel Turner

This is a good point "The Phins really need to do a better job of
> developing players". And it scares me cause I think many of the guys Hickey drafted were based on potential, and if they Phins can't develop guys we are in a heap of trouble.

Hickey's going to need to strike gold this offseason if Coyle is sticking around.

A ton of talent can mask coaching deficiencies.

If we can get Tripp to perform at MLB, Billy Turner to TAKE a starting LG spot, Walt Aikens to TAKE the FS spot and continue the development of Fede, Hickey will be labeled a genius.

Actually if just two of those work out, it will turn out to be one hell of a draft.