that didn't work so well

JSM has a good point there.

jsm08 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Andrew Luck's line is horrible. He has no problem
> with the deep pass.
>
> At some point your QB has to instill some fear in
> an opposing D. He has to beat the rush once in a
> while and hit a big play.
>
> So tired of hearing we need a big wr, we need a
> deep threat, we need a new oline.
>
> What we need is our QB to put his big boy pants on
> and start making plays when they're there. Until
> then he's going to face constant pressure no
> matter who we put on the line.
>
> And if he can't do that you change your offensive
> philosophy and run the ball 30-40x a game and
> build a solid D.
>
> I think he has the ability. He just needs to do
> it.

Luck was sacked 27 times. Tannehill 46.

Sacks over the last two years....

Luck = 59
Tannehill = 104

Tannehill was sacked almost as much last year (58) as Luck was over the last TWO years.

He puts his big boy pants on every time he lifts himself off the ground....doesn't complain, call his line out. He's a tough S-O-A-B.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2015 08:04AM by JoeFootball.

sacks stats don't tell the whole story.

Neither does deep passing completion %.

You both are right. Stats mean really nothing, ....except won-lost.

They must mean something or they wouldn't be in NFL contracts.

dolphin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would say a deep ball throw is not a timing
> throw.
>
> An out or a curl is a timing throw.
>
> a deep ball throw is a touch throw.

************************************************

Geez, dolphin, of course a deep ball is timing; maybe not as much as the shorter variety, but it is still timing.

The QB has to know the receiver's moves and speed and how that receiver can make his breaks and also get off the line of scrimmage. The QB places the ball where he expects the receiver to be, basing it on the above. That is timing. A QB doesn't just step back and let it fly.

jsm08 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Andrew Luck's line is horrible. He has no problem
> with the deep pass.
>
> At some point your QB has to instill some fear in
> an opposing D. He has to beat the rush once in a
> while and hit a big play.
>
> So tired of hearing we need a big wr, we need a
> deep threat, we need a new oline.
>
> What we need is our QB to put his big boy pants on
> and start making plays when they're there. Until
> then he's going to face constant pressure no
> matter who we put on the line.
>
> And if he can't do that you change your offensive
> philosophy and run the ball 30-40x a game and
> build a solid D.
>
> I think he has the ability. He just needs to do
> it.

***************************************************

Think about this, also. How many times have any of us seen our receivers wide open on their routes? The majority of time the defender is right on our guy, and the defender either knocks it away or our guy gets tackled as soon as he catches it.

GB's Jordy Nelson is no speedster, but he is wide open on almost every pass Rodgers throws him. Why is that?

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JoeFootball Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > They must mean something or they wouldn't be in
> > NFL contracts.
>
>
> Didn't YOU just say that "Neither does deep
> passing completion %.", Joe Football?

Yes, in regards to "telling the whole story".

captkoi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Think about this, also. How many times have any of
> us seen our receivers wide open on their routes?
> The majority of time the defender is right on our
> guy, and the defender either knocks it away or our
> guy gets tackled as soon as he catches it.
>
> GB's Jordy Nelson is no speedster, but he is wide
> open on almost every pass Rodgers throws him. Why
> is that?


Agreed, for whatever reason our guys never seem to get that blown coverage that you see so many over recievers enjoy. Also, it seems like most deep passes to Wallace were hugging the sidelines, very rarely ever saw him streaking down the middle.

dolphaholic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> captkoi Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Think about this, also. How many times have any
> of
> > us seen our receivers wide open on their
> routes?
> > The majority of time the defender is right on
> our
> > guy, and the defender either knocks it away or
> our
> > guy gets tackled as soon as he catches it.
> >
> > GB's Jordy Nelson is no speedster, but he is
> wide
> > open on almost every pass Rodgers throws him.
> Why
> > is that?
>
>
> Agreed, for whatever reason our guys never seem to
> get that blown coverage that you see so many over
> recievers enjoy. Also, it seems like most deep
> passes to Wallace were hugging the sidelines, very
> rarely ever saw him streaking down the middle.

************************************************

Exactly what I have been preaching, holic, why don't they have Wallace going on a deep post pattern a few times a game? That is a much easier throw for the QB.

Yeah, what is the story on what happened to Hartline this year?

He was always the reliable possession receiver for Tanny. He was what Wes Welker used to be to Brady.

Did he have a nagging injury?

It wasn't like Tanny was hitting the long ball to Wallace so much this year that Hartline wasn't needed.

Are we just ASSUMING that the failure was on his part.

From what I have gathered, the new offense took him out of the routes that were his bread and butter in 2012 & 2013.

JoeFootball Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From what I have gathered, the new offense took
> him out of the routes that were his bread and
> butter in 2012 & 2013.


Which in and of itself is an indictment on his skillset, Hartline is very limited in how he can help a team, I'd love to see him hang on as the 3rd/4th WR, but not at 7+ million next year. If he does hang around Lazor needs to find a way to utilize his skills like Sherman did. Like others have said, you can't get rid of everyone except Landry all at once......or can you?

Excellent article Joe, makes me think even more that upgrading the WR position should one of if not THE top priority this offseason.

Why get new receivers if the coaches cannot call plays to their strengths? That's the problem w/ this entire team, the defense does not come up w/ sacks or the db's w/ interceptions because our DC cannot get ahead of the opposing team's OC calls. The OC cannot use our WRs to the max!

We have WR's who are underutilized because of play calling or our qb's deficiencies. Wallace gives his perspective of the phins offense in today's Sentinel. Good article. I have been waiting to hear his side. At first the press w/ their 'unnamed sources' had me red eyed wanting to cut him but in the past few weeks I have changed my mind. This article makes me understand his side.

We also have the highest paid WR group in the NFL, do you think they're worth it? Honestly, is Hartline worth 7 mil next year? Is Gibson worth 3 or 4 million? Wallace is not worth 12 million either, that's elite WR money, even with better play calling Mike Wallace is not a top 5 WR IMO. This group has to be revamped, I'm not saying all of them, but there has to be pay-cuts or out right cuts to balance out the salary cap.

What Wallace did was wrong; he handled it poorly. Or did he?

All season long he's been right in pointing out that the coaches haven't been using him properly. And Tannehill didn't get his deep ball corrected in the offseason. These things HURT the team in 2014. It probably cost them a playoff berth.

Since Philbin is as stubborn as a mule, he probably chose to ignore Wallace. That would fit Philbin's persona. So Wallace did the only thing he could: he is using his contract as a lever in the discussion. The Dolphins would be better off if they fixed the problem with their deep game. And they are a BETTER team with Wallace on the roster.

IF Lazor is to be believed then there is a deep ball option in most of the passing plays called. That would put the blame on Tannehill for checking down to the short pass before giving Wallace a chance to get past the corner. You could argue that the o-line is not giving him time to see if the deep route develops but, I recall that early in the season there was that report that the coaches were getting impatient with Tannehill's development or lack there of.
Personally, I don't think the game has slowed down sufficiently for Tannehill to freeze the safeties with his eyes and give Wallace the opportunity to get open coupled with his reluctance to throw the deep ball because he's not very good at it.

........................................

The Clown Show Continues



-

Regarding Wallace's salary, he did not sit down and write out his check. No he was not a top 5 receiver when we brought him here. He had a specific talent, deep speed. We knew all of that and we dumped money on him. Yes I wish he would renegotiate his contract but right now its leverage for him.

Gibson and Hartline can reneg or go.

Again Hooligan, the lack of a deep ball isn't on Tannehill, it isn't on the O-line, wide receivers or coaches......it's on all of them together, you can't pin point one guy/area and say they are exclusively the problem.

I'm sure there was plenty of times RT didn't pull the trigger when he had someone open, he also missed some deep passes, but there was plenty of times he had a defender in his face in under 2 seconds after the snap, there was plenty of nicely thrown balls that weren't caught, and I'm sure the plays always weren't called correctly. No matter why those opportunities were missed, we can't ignore the fact that this WR group is grossly over-paid.......thank you Jeff Ireland

Yes the WR are grossly overpaid and yes Tanne misthrows on the deep pass too many times when everything is right. Regarding Tanne, I have and will always support him as out starter but he has to prove that he can get us above .500

Tanne has to make the improvements necessary for us to get above .500.

The coaches as well as the other players.

Tanne is our qb the crown of leadership is on HIS head. When we win trust me he will get his share of credit right now he has to carry his share of criticism.