have to decide if Phipin is good or can be. I hate to start all over. new coach, new staff, new GM etc etc

Miami will lose to NE. The last two games are iffy.

If Miami wins the last two, that would put them at 9-7. Is that enough for Ross to keep Philbin? From Ross' past actions, it is very difficult to say what he will or won't do.

If Miami loses the last three games? That means Miami would end up 7-9, worse record since Philbin has been the head man. Enough for Ross to let Philbin go?

For me, the coaching staff hasn't shown enough to retain Philbin. How long does Miami have to tread water before Ross makes that final decision? He is putting out a hell of a lot of money to continue to see this franchise continue to be mediocre (and maybe even worse).

Much has been said on this board about not firing Philbin for fear of having to start all over again. A solution would be to do a great deal of research and interview and hire a coach who has pretty much the same philosophy that is presently in place. This way not too much change has to occur. I realize that could be difficult or tricky, but that would be a solution to a new hiring.

Once that happens, then it will be up to Hickey and the new HC to get players that will fit into what they want to do.

Is Philbin solely to blame? Certainly not, but as the old saying goes, "the buck stops here."

Yeah, the buck stops here. It did for Cam Cameron and Tony Sparano.

colonel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe Philbin isn't good enough BUT this team is
> not good enough to be a playoff team either. They
> are borderline and very close when they are
> healthy. Given our injuries, we just don't have
> the depth to overcome them.
>
> Agree.
>
> I missed the Jets and Ravens games, saw only some
> quickie highlights (out of the country) but know
> we played poorly in both games.
>
> It certainly appears we are headed for another
> mediocre won-loss record and will not make the
> play-offs. The caliber of coaching is indicative
> of our record, the three year one with Philbin as
> HC; the caliber of players makes us competitive
> when we are healthy and falls off dramatically
> when we are hurt and forced to rely on bench
> strength. We need better coaching and better
> talent in numerous positions to win this
> division.
>
> Philbin's chances of being here next season are
> growing smaller and smaller, IMO. Could be a
> godsend or another mistake to let him go. Very,
> very difficult to know for sure. Either way it is
> a gamble.
>
> Colonel

And Philbin was saddled with Ireland for 2/3 of his time here.

Those drafts netted us....(careful, this is going to hurt)

Dion Jordan
Jamar Taylor
Dallas Thomas
Will Davis
Jelani Jenkins
Dion Sims
Mike Gillislee
Caleb Sturgis
Don Jones
Ryan Tannehill
Jonathan Martin
Olivier Vernon
Michael Egnew
Lamar Miller
Josh Kaddu
B.J. Cunningham
Kheeston Randall
Rishard Matthews

3-4 GOOD PLAYERS IN 3 YEARS!!!!

Free Agent signings....

QB David Garrard, WR Chad Ochocinco, WR Legedu Naanee, DE/OLB Jamaal Westerman, OLB Gary Guyton, CB Richard Marshall, S Tyrell Johnson.

WR Mike Wallace, WR Brandon Gibson, TE Dustin Keller, OT Tyson Clabo, G Lance Louis, DT Vaughn Martin, OLB Philip Wheeler, ILB Dannell Ellerbe.

That's enough to set ANY organization back a few years OR decades if you deal out contracts like Ireland did. We are still paying for Dansby and will be saddled with Wallace for YEARS.

JoeFootball Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe Philbin isn't good enough BUT this team is
> not good enough to be a playoff team either. They
> are borderline and very close when they are
> healthy. Given our injuries, we just don't have
> the depth to overcome them.

*********************************************************

I don't think Philbin is good enough; way too many mistakes, both with his style, his coaching selections, his game management, and player management. I agree, however, that the players just are not good enough to be a playoff caliber team, or...is that because of the coaching? Granted, injuries hurt, but as is always said, injuries are part of the game. Besides, Miami quite often looked bad even when they had most, if not all, their players healthy.

****************************************************************
>
> Hickey could not fix years of neglect by Ireland
> in one year. The 2013 draft is a complete waste
> other that getting lucky on a 4th round LB'er.
> Hickey found two quality players this year but no
> one else has really contributed. That makes the
> score 2 out of 8. Too many years of (Ireland)
> getting two or three good, above average players
> and no studs.
>
> Everyone wants to crown Lazor as a guru when the
> offense does well. When they struggle, they blame
> Philbin. I don't get it.

*****************************************************

I wouldn't crown Lazor a guru, but he is an upgrade over what Miami previously had. RT's level of play shows that, however...is it Lazor or Philbin, or both, who don't game plan to where RT can go downfield? I know, of course, that if the OL has an open door policy, that RT just doesn't have the time to drop back and let it fly, but they have to do something to loosen up the opposing defense. A good example is what happened yesterday vs the Ravens. RT got killed.

*************************************************************
>
> We could have made a run had we stayed healthy but
> we didn't. Doesn't anyone remember the 2008 team
> when we made the playoffs? We were the healthiest
> team in the league. That's not a coincidence.
>
> Branden Albert:
> Knowshon Moreno:
> Cortland Finnegan:
> Charles Clay/Arthur Lynch
> Michael Thomas
> Dannelle Ellerbe
> Will Davis
> Jamar Taylor
> Louis Delmas
>
> You just don't overcome that unless your an
> established playoff team with years of quality
> acquisitions.
>
> Philbin should shoulder some of the blame but he
> is not the end-all, be-all of our problems. His
> allegiance with players like Colledge and D-Thomas
> are hurting us. How about the decline of Mike
> Pouncey at RG, Brian Hartline, Randy Starks?

******************************************************

I again ask the question...is it the players or the coaching?

*************************************************************
>
> The decision to put Satele at center was ok at
> first but the truth is Satele has sucked for 5
> weeks straight. Why? because he cannot compete
> with top defensive linemen and that's what we've
> faced over the last 5 weeks. (Det, Buf, Den, NYJ,
> Bal).

*******************************************************

Agreed, Satele was a good pickup and played well, but with the "big" boys in front of him, he has been getting bull rushed. Problem is, with Albert being injured, Miami can't put Pouncey back at center as there really isn't anyone good enough to put at guard.

**************************************************************
>
> Until you get sad-sack players like Dallas Thomas
> replaced with adequate players, you are screwed.
> He is practice squad type material at best.

*********************************************************

Yep, time to get Thomas out of there. Why Philbin continued to keep him in there vs the Ravens I will never know. Can his replacement play any worse? Here's a thought: how about trading DALLAS Thomas to DALLAS for Zach Martin? Good publicity for Jerry Jones.

**************************************************************
>
> If you want to blame Philbin, I can understand but
> it's for the bad moves or non moves. Not for every
> thing that has gone wrong.
>
> No reason he shouldn't have at least tried
> different variations along the line.
>
> LT James
> LG Smith
> C Pouncey
> RG Turner/Garner
> RT Fox/Garner
>
> Look at Denver. They were sucking big time on the
> line after injuries and they moved everyone until
> they fixed it and it's not like they had great
> depth to begin with.
>
> This season is over. The writing has been on the
> wall since week 10.
>
> That being said, making it this far on the o-line
> is a hell of an accomplishment when you consider
> the complete makeover in one year and the utter
> disarray we are in last season.

*****************************************************

Agreed, again. Our OL has improved, but as we saw yesterday, not enough. Still don't have enough "solid" players. Pretty bad if one player (Albert) goes out and the line falls apart and there are no viable replacements.

***********************************************************
>
> Who knows what this team will be next year and who
> will be in charge? I'm not anxious for a regime
> change. I'm anxious for the opportunity to build
> the roster and fill the holes.
>
> DT, OT, OG, LB, FS, CB
>
> You don't have those kinds/numbers of needs if
> you're a playoff team.

at 9-7 I keep Philpin and chalk it up to injuries. I would also get new DC that is aggressive.

If you get new head coach you likely lose Hickey.

Please dont put Wallace in that list. I am way ok with him.

Ive always like Matthews way more then Gibson

dolphin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> If you get new head coach you likely lose Hickey.

Unless we promote Lazor to HC. If there's talk about him leaving for a HC gig in a couple years anyway, why not have that start in Miami?

What has Lazor done to deserve that?

He did get Philbin to at least consider and run a few read options.

maybe its time for Josh McDaniel to steal something from NE?

dolfan1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Time to start over, because if we dont you can see
> Patriot nation at the top year after year. Philbin
> has lost the locker room and its time Ross really
> makes a bid for Harbough


can you ever post on here without mentioning the pats? this thread has nothing to do with the pats, but here you are

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've been told from people close to the locker
> room, and even by 1 agent directly that Joe
> Philbin is respected about as much as a shoe
> within the locker room.

Aqua, I don't think those guys are being straight with you. Philbin is well-respected. The problem is that he and his staff aren't dealing with injuries, scheme adjustments, or technique issues as well as he should be.

The coaches aren't adjusting to the circumstances of the season. Philbin is still learning how to be a HC and Lazor is in his first season as an OC.

Should Philbin be fired? We've had enough regime turnover but I'd like to see the final record, playoffs or no, before commenting on it.

cshashaty Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Aqua&Orange Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I've been told from people close to the locker
> > room, and even by 1 agent directly that Joe
> > Philbin is respected about as much as a shoe
> > within the locker room.
>
> Aqua, I don't think those guys are being straight
> with you. Philbin is well-respected. The problem
> is that he and his staff aren't dealing with
> injuries, scheme adjustments, or technique issues
> as well as he should be.


A lot has to do with which agent and people he talked to... For instance if he has been talking to David Canter, that sounds about right.. But Canter needs to be taken with a grain of salt.. He tells that crap to anyone that will listen on twitter. I talk to Canter about Philbin 2 years ago and he was saying the same type of crap... Considering we let Sean Smith and Paul Solia walk, 2 of his biggest clients, I know he is pretty much a Philbin hater... If he talked to people around Hartline, sounds about the same... So it all depends on the source.. Since he doesn't say who it is, it is hard to take it too serious... Like a reporter quoting something from an anonymous source, it shouldn't carry much weight... Because you need to understand the motivation or circumstances behind why it is being said... Especially to random people via twitter...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Things were looking pretty good until all these injuries.

unless we tank the rest of the season I would think you bring him back.

cshashaty Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Aqua&Orange Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I've been told from people close to the locker
> > room, and even by 1 agent directly that Joe
> > Philbin is respected about as much as a shoe
> > within the locker room.
>
> Aqua, I don't think those guys are being straight
> with you. Philbin is well-respected. The problem
> is that he and his staff aren't dealing with
> injuries, scheme adjustments, or technique issues
> as well as he should be.
>
> The coaches aren't adjusting to the circumstances
> of the season. Philbin is still learning how to be
> a HC and Lazor is in his first season as an OC.
>
> Should Philbin be fired? We've had enough regime
> turnover but I'd like to see the final record,
> playoffs or no, before commenting on it.


&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

They are dead straight with me. Said the players love Joe as a person, really do. Respect him as a person.

But they do NOT respect him as a top tier HC. They feel he lacks the fire, passion, and emotion that all the top HC's display.

Believe me if you want, I don't care. I already know Crowder doesn't. He never has. Has always had an underlying beef with me. But, whatever. I could care less.

I've been told by numerous people. Have no doubt that it's the truth.

Plus, now hearing things about Marino being concerned about Philbin. So, theres that.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

A&O, I never said I didn't believe you, I just said it depends on who you talked to.. I know a lot of people around the team as well.. I also just said it all depends on who you talk to, is what you get, would you not say that is accurate? I could find people around the organization or agents that will say the exact opposite and some that will agree... I pointed out that David Canter is one of those people that would agree with what you said, I also said people around Hartline are obviously not happy but I am pretty sure Drew Rosenhaus is not sharing that with people on twitter... I also know people around Tannehill are very tight lipped about it.. SO it is a mixed bag, that is really my point.. You can't make it a blanket statement... I know that for fact...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Crowder,

Yes. I would agree with that. I would agree with everything you said.



P.S- Hint.. It ain't Canter. He blocked me on twitter 2 years ago when I trashed Sean Smith. LOL.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dolfan1 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Time to start over, because if we dont you can
> see
> > Patriot nation at the top year after year.
> Philbin
> > has lost the locker room and its time Ross
> really
> > makes a bid for Harbough
>
>
> can you ever post on here without mentioning the
> pats? this thread has nothing to do with the pats,
> but here you are


I only mention them because the Pats are always at the top of our division and until they either loose hoody or brady...and even if they lose brady in the future they always seem to get players to step up and win. So I want us to get a coach = or better than hoody so we can become the top team in the AFC East.

Yeah, right.

cshashaty Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Aqua&Orange Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I've been told from people close to the locker
> > room, and even by 1 agent directly that Joe
> > Philbin is respected about as much as a shoe
> > within the locker room.
>
> Aqua, I don't think those guys are being straight
> with you. Philbin is well-respected. The problem
> is that he and his staff aren't dealing with
> injuries, scheme adjustments, or technique issues
> as well as he should be.
>
> The coaches aren't adjusting to the circumstances
> of the season. Philbin is still learning how to be
> a HC and Lazor is in his first season as an OC.
>
> Should Philbin be fired? We've had enough regime
> turnover but I'd like to see the final record,
> playoffs or no, before commenting on it.

*******************************************************

Forget the damn record (unless Miami finishes 10-6, that is ).

How the players PLAY tells me everything I need to know. How the coaches COACH tells me everything I need to know.

Philbin is the head guy. If Lazor or Coyle are calling the game wrong, then Philbin, as the HC, must step in and fix it. As with Sherman, it seems as though Philbin walks on eggs when it comes to his assistants. He doesn't get on his coaches (as far as we are aware) about poor play calling. An assistant just doesn't get the job done, he can't fire them (unless the owner threatens him to do so).

No, how Miami plays these next three games, not the record, will determine the coaching staff's future, along with many of the players.

Firepblin.

I grabbed this off some random patsie board:

"The Dolphins are a legitimately talented team. Luckily they're also kinda dysfunctional and poorly coached."

How true it is. We need to get rid of these coaches..and get some good football minds in here quick before this franchise flounders for the next decade.

I am pretty terrified right now.

Let this sink in:

Stephen Ross hasn't hired the right guy (or a good one) yet. He's literally whiffed on every HC candidate.

My only hope is that Marino brings a level of respectability to the coaching search that lands a big fish. I have no faith in Ross. None.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Sparano was a Parcel hire. Ross has been involved in the hiring of only Philbin. One whiff is hardly a trend unless, you're counting the candidates that had no interest in the HC job.

........................................

The Clown Show Continues



-

well first off, the Parcells hire was wrong. So there's that.

Secondly, any hire under his watch he has to take credit & blame for. That is how the business works, sorry.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

The Parcels hire was under Hueizenga and it netted us the wildcat and our first division title since Wanny.

........................................

The Clown Show Continues



-

I don't know Aqua, Ross had good instincts in wanting to hire Harbaugh the first time he just managed to screw the pooch on how he went about it, he went after Fisher hard...... again left standing at the alter. I think he's chasing the right guys but his blind loyalty to certain individuals (i.e. Ireland) muddied the waters. We shall see if he has the same loyalty with Hickey (who by the way was also a Ross hire, and although he was the only guy willing to take the job, seems to be a decent hire).

Hooligan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Parcels hire was under Hueizenga and it netted
> us the wildcat and our first division title since
> Wanny.


&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
Oh, ok. The Wildcat.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Hooligan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Parcels hire was under Hueizenga and it netted
> us the wildcat and our first division title since
> Wanny.


Yay....