Would you take a run at Ndamukong Suh in 2015? he will probably become the highest paid defensive player in the league. 6 years 100 mil...14-17 mil per year. Imagine what he would do for freeing up Cam Wake & Vernon.

Were Odrick and Starks so much better in 2013 because they played next to Soliaiwho was occupying multiple blockers?

Odrick is a FA, Starks is about done and will probably be released. Mitchell is so-so.

Or would you take a run at Nick Fairley? Motivation problems...CJ Mosley. Are they really good or just look good because they play next to Suh?

Not a whole lot on the market. We either sign one or draft one high.

We don't have the Cap money to sign Suh or much of anybody next year to big deals.... We are going to have to draft well for now...

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Not as of now but I foresee several changes in the off season.

Cut players...

Brian Hartline, Randy Starks, Finnegan

That represents roughly 25.6 mil in cap savings. We have 7.8 mil to roll over for a total of 33.4 mil in cap space.

I would offer a lower deal to Hartline. I just can't justify 6.5 mil for what he has done this year coupled with the need for a bigger play making red zone WR. They basically have to choose between Ellerbe and Wheeler. Too much in dead space to cut both. Wheeler has been great now that he is at normal position of SLB. Goodbye Ellerbe. Another savings of 5.6 mil. (4.2 mil in dead space)

That puts us at 39 mil in cap surplus!

Cutting Hartline would save us 3.15 million next year, Randy Starks 5 million, Finnegan roughly 5.47 million.. To me that only represents roughly 13.5 million in savings? What am I missing? And we lose 3 starters... Granted we could lose Hartline without much of a hitch, with Landry already replacing him.. But we don't have a # 2 CB that can replace Finnegan and stay healthy.. And replacing Starks for his cost isn't as easy as it seems...

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Joe, if we get him, we need to have people who are dolphin fans and who know offensive linemen on every team we play next year.

Then have those fans of ours, get those offensive linemen on those other teams we are playing to come out before the television cameras and call him "DONKEY KONG SUH!"

cutting Wheeler would only save us $200,000. So that isn't going to happen... Even if Wheeler was horrible he gets a roster spot next year.. I agree Ellerbe is most likely gone... But you can't cut that many guys and fill that cap space with one big money guy in my opinion...

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

I'd love to shoehorn a guy like Suh in under the cap but its not going to be easy and to a degree...he's a ticking timebomb.

I'd rather focus on our oline. We are going to need a back up OT who can play both spots. And I'd rather go after an elite OG like Mike Iupati than a DT at twice the cost.

Going into next year with James, Pouncey, Turner, Iupati, a FA/Draft pick and Albert coming off IR mid season we would have a terrific oline and an even better offense.

Doesn't have a reputation for playing very dirty? If so, no thanks.

I'd love to add him but I doubt we can afford it. Drafting a DT that has the potential to dominate is a better option for us. Especially since we also need OL, CB, LB and WR help.

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cutting Hartline would save us 3.15 million next
> year, Randy Starks 5 million, Finnegan roughly
> 5.47 million.. To me that only represents roughly
> 13.5 million in savings? What am I missing? And
> we lose 3 starters... Granted we could lose
> Hartline without much of a hitch, with Landry
> already replacing him.. But we don't have a # 2 CB
> that can replace Finnegan and stay healthy.. And
> replacing Starks for his cost isn't as easy as it
> seems...

Yeah I mixed up my numbers and looked at the wrong year for Wheeler. Hartline, Starks, Ellerbe and Finnegan would save around 19.2 mil. Add that to the rollover of 7.8 mil and we have about 27 mil in cap space.

That's still pretty good and enough to sign a top FA. I do realize we have to start thinking about players soon to be FA's as well as players like Clay & Odrick, etc.

I don't think Finnegan has earned another year at 6.5 mil and think we would be better served to sign a younger guy to a long term deal even if it cost a little more.

I don't want to cut Wheeler but I just don't think they will pay Starks and Hartline when they weigh the production. Starks is now a part time player because they know his skills are diminishing. Hartline is a tough cut and wouldn't save as much as I thought.

This is why I think DT will be our biggest need next year.

I'm not advocating for Suh and like I said, I'm not sure about where his head is at...

Let's see if they can get back into it and stop the run this week. for two weeks they have not been able to do it.

This thread sort of morphed a bit into draft vs. FA, and I'll piggy-back to say that I think the #1 thing we need to address in terms of player acquisition is a big, athletic pass catcher who can be that missing red zone target...bonus if they can be the type of player who can stretch the field and be trusted to go up and get a long ball that doesn't drop right into his hands. Obviously they don't grow on trees, but that's how I prioritize player acquisition.

DT's pretty far up the list, though.

Suh would be great, but with QB money to be spent very soon, don't think we could afford him.

I read this year that Miami has the highest paid WR corp in the NFL. That's not a designation you want to have when you consider NO Dolphin WR has had a 100 yard game this season.

The miss by Wallace last week was a typical example of his deficiency as a WR. The highest paid WR in the league should make that catch and ones like it that he has missed in games past. He said he lost it in the lights but that doesn't excuse the others.

(I would have loved the opportunity at a player like Mike Evans, RT's former teammate. He is the perfect type of player we need.)

We may have a need at WR but we don't have holes. There is a difference. If we don't happen to get a WR, we will still be able to produce with what we have.

If we don't sign a DT, there is a void. Who knows whether Odrick will take a bigger offer somewhere else? That leaves an aging part time player and an undersized DT on the roster. The young guys haven't shown anything that would lead me to believe they can start.

Top 4 needs IMO, are DT, CB, WR/TE, OL. We can address a couple in FA and find a couple starters in the draft. As of now, we are drafting around 22. Miss the playoffs and we probably drop to 15.

JoeFootball Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Crowder52 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Cutting Hartline would save us 3.15 million
> next
> > year, Randy Starks 5 million, Finnegan roughly
> > 5.47 million.. To me that only represents
> roughly
> > 13.5 million in savings? What am I missing?
> And
> > we lose 3 starters... Granted we could lose
> > Hartline without much of a hitch, with Landry
> > already replacing him.. But we don't have a # 2
> CB
> > that can replace Finnegan and stay healthy..
> And
> > replacing Starks for his cost isn't as easy as
> it
> > seems...
>
> Yeah I mixed up my numbers and looked at the wrong
> year for Wheeler. Hartline, Starks, Ellerbe and
> Finnegan would save around 19.2 mil. Add that to
> the rollover of 7.8 mil and we have about 27 mil
> in cap space.
>
> That's still pretty good and enough to sign a top
> FA. I do realize we have to start thinking about
> players soon to be FA's as well as players like
> Clay & Odrick, etc.
>
> I don't think Finnegan has earned another year at
> 6.5 mil and think we would be better served to
> sign a younger guy to a long term deal even if it
> cost a little more.
>
> I don't want to cut Wheeler but I just don't think
> they will pay Starks and Hartline when they weigh
> the production. Starks is now a part time player
> because they know his skills are diminishing.
> Hartline is a tough cut and wouldn't save as much
> as I thought.
>
> This is why I think DT will be our biggest need
> next year.
>
> I'm not advocating for Suh and like I said, I'm
> not sure about where his head is at...
>
> Let's see if they can get back into it and stop
> the run this week. for two weeks they have not
> been able to do it.

I think I originally had Brandon Gibson figure in as one of the cuts as well. He would hold several mil more in savings.

And our DTs are doing exactly what tim bowens used to do. Occupie space so that the LBs can make the tackle...

But we have no zach thomas on this team.

No. I don't think it is a TOP need and I don't believe I am mistaken. It is a need, in that we need improved play/players but there is not a void there. (You always look to create competition and improve the roster)

Missed tackles is an issue for the entire team. Not just the LB's. Phillip Wheeler has only missed 1 tackle this year! Everyone is singing the praises of Jenkins (as well they should) but he leads the LB'ers with 8 missed tackles.

If you compare the starting LB unit to some of the best in the league, here's how they stack up...

Miami (Misi and Trusnik combined numbers at ML (All 4-3 D's)

Miami 16 missed tackles
Detroit 29 missed tackles
Buffalo 19 missed tackles
Seattle 14 missed tackles

Take those numbers and factor in the other variables....

1 It's Misi's first year at MLB, he can get even better.
2 It's only Jenkins 2nd year and he is still up and coming. needs to work on basics.
3 Wheeler is FINALLY playing at his natural spot of SLB.
4 Jordan Tripp has potential to push for a starting spot in 2015 with added strength/size
5 Improve the DT's and the LB'ers improve.

So no, I don't view it as high as some of the other positions and I would not spend a high draft pick (1-3) on the position unless a blue chipper fell in my lap and was a complete steal.

Do you really think Buffalo's and Detroit's LB'ers are so good or would you give some of the credit to their ALL PRO DT's?

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And our DTs are doing exactly what tim bowens used
> to do. Occupie space so that the LBs can make the
> tackle...
>
> But we have no zach thomas on this team.


That's where you are mistaken. We have NOBODY who is playing as well as Bowens ever did. We have no "Tim Bowens" on this team. Granted you are right. We have no Thomas either.

Bowens played the space eater in the 4-3 defense. He was the 1 technique NT in our 4-3. He was also beating double teams and making plays.

Go look at the numbers if you don't believe me. He was collecting 3-5 sacks, 40-50 tackles, 1 or 2 forced fumbles, 1-2 fumble recoveries per season. Who is doing that this year at DT?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2014 04:40AM by JoeFootball.

I think our top needs are an OG, DT, CB, LB/DE, WR and RB.

If we re-sign Clay we are good at TE.

Some holes will be filed in FA, others in the draft.

If I were GM I'd tell Jordan to lose 15 lbs and move him to OLB. I'd also look to sign a guard, DT, CB in FA.

I'd look to draft a RB, MLB, WR, DE, DT and CB/FS.

I'd hope my 1st round pick was Denzel Perryman (ML or an impact WR/RB/DT/DE (in that order).

Yeah the Gibson cut is even a bigger savings then Hartline... Earl Mitchell and Shelley SMith could be potential cap savers as well.. At the end of the day, we obviously need to have replacements for anyone we cut. One way or another we need to draft well to fill a lot of the gaps.. Either from cap cuts or current holes in the roster... I dont think we are going to have alot of money to mess with in FA ultimately, because cuts in most roster places just create more holes...

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

I don't understand the savings for Mitchell. He has 9 mil guaranteed and will have 3.5 mil off the books this year. Wouldn't that be a 5.5 mil cap hit next year if released? With no savings?

Not saying i dont believe you. My point is the LB position is a huge need on this team.

Earl Mitchell's only guaranteed money was from this year. If we cut him, we would have zero dead money with a 4.5 million cap savings... Pouncey and Mitchell are actually the only 2 guys on our roster next year with out any dead money if we cut them... other then minimum salary guys...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2014 05:45AM by Crowder52.

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Earl Mitchell's only guaranteed money was from
> this year. If we cut him, we would have zero dead
> money with a 4.5 million cap savings... Pouncey
> and Mitchell are actually the only 2 guys on our
> roster next year with out any dead money if we cut
> them... other then minimum salary guys...

I still don't get it. His cap numbers for 2014 were 3 mil in base salary and 500k in (prorated) bonus for 3.5 mil cap hit. If his guaranteed money is 9 mil, how do they get out of not taking that cap hit in 2015?

If his only guaranteed money was from this year, he would have counted 9 mil against the cap this year.

If you are using overthecap as your source, I think they have the wrong amount in guaranteed money. They only show 5 mil.

MLB and big DT are needs. Let's see what Hickey can do!

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not saying i dont believe you. My point is the LB
> position is a huge need on this team.

Based on what though? I haven't seen the evidence to show it is a bigger need than DT or any other position.

Your whole argument was because of missed tackles but I showed you that we are no different than any of the top defenses.

Sounds like perception is greater than reality. We don't have a big name stud LB running around making big plays so people assume LB'er is our problem.

If you were to make the argument last year I would buy it but things have changed for the better once Ellerbe left and positions were changed.

IMO, we'll hold off on drafting a CB high this year, we'll have the two young guys back from IR with Grimes, and we'll either keep Finnegan or sign another vet, it seems like the CB FA market has been devalued the last few years, there always seems to be a handful of decent vets available for a decent price.

JoeFootball Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Would you take a run at Ndamukong Suh in 2015?
> Or would you take a run at Nick Fairley?


I'm satisfied with the strength across the DL. They really have been the star performers on defense. I would consider something at LB however. I'm not satisfied with their play at all.

I wouldn't draft one high either. Great market for CB's this year I think.

I don't have much faith in Taylor staying healthy or Davis improving enough to mess with.

Wouldn't you rather pay Chris Harris or Brandon Flowers 8-9 mil per year to be dominant than Finnegan 6.5 to be below average?

cshashaty Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JoeFootball Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Would you take a run at Ndamukong Suh in 2015?
> > Or would you take a run at Nick Fairley?
>
>
> I'm satisfied with the strength across the DL.
> They really have been the star performers on
> defense. I would consider something at LB however.
> I'm not satisfied with their play at all.

I thought so too but I've seen the chinks in the armor. We've dropped to the 22nd ranked rush defense. That's a huge drop off and it's getting worse every year.

and they may not even be here. Starks is 31 next Sunday, playing part time and counts 6 mil against the cap next year. Odrick is a FA.

Starks 398 snaps
Mitchell 393 snaps
Odrick 646 snaps

Let's see how they do this week.