JoeFootball Wrote:
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> THE Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > dolphaholic Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Harbaugh would probably cost us a 1st or 2nd
> > rnd
> > > draft pick......no thanks. If (and thats a
> big
> > IF)
> > > they move on from Philbin, I'd want Hickey to
> > > stick around and pick the new coach, and a
> name
> > > that intrigues me is Todd Bowles, he could
> > retain
> > > Lazor and let him concentrate on the Off, and
> > > Bowles could put his stamp on the Def. Not
> sure
> > if
> > > Bowles has heartburn of his last stint here,
> > but
> > > I'm $ure Uncle $tephen Ro$$ can convince him
> to
> > > forgive and forget. Keeping Hickey would add
> > some
> > > sense of stability and makes sure the new HC
> > > doesn't come in and gut the team to fit a new
> > > "system", plus I think he's earned that
> chance.
> >
> > The problem with leaving Lazor at OC is that if
> he
> > has another season like this next year some
> other
> > team is going to make him their hc and we start
> > over from square one.
> >
> > I like Bowles but not so much that I'd risk
> losing
> > Lazor. The single biggest factor in this
> team's
> > success in the coming years is qb.
> >
> > Continuity on that side of the ball is
> paramount
> > if things are going well.
>
> I like Bowles and Lazor but there is a huge
> difference between coordinator and HC. Philbin was
> the genius OC for 5 years before coming to Miami.
>
> Lazor doesn't even have that resume and Coyle took
> over as HC while Joe was away. Not Lazor.
>
> There was another young OC guru a few years ago
> that didn't fare too well as a HC. Josh McDaniels.
> And he was an OC for 3 years. problem was he
> didn't play well with others. Sounds similar to
> complaints about Lazor.
>
> Joe Philbin is not the only reason we are losing.
> We still have 5 more games to play but I say keep
> JP and extend Lazor. Maybe in a few years if
> Philbin doesn't get us there, Lazor can take
> over.
>
> I don't think he is ready yet.
>
> Of course it will all depend on how we finish the
> season. If we get beat by the Jets then a
> reevaluation is needed.
>
> We have had a lot of injuries this year and have
> held up pretty well for the most part considering.
> We just need another year to add personnel for
> starters as well as depth to make a real push,
> IMO.
>
> Moreno, Albert, Will Davis, Arthur Lynch, Ellerbe,
> Michael Thomas just to name a few IR victims. Then
> you have Koa Misi, Finnegan, Pouncey and Jones out
> for a while. Charles Clay hurting all year.


I don't think Philbin had a "genius" tag as OC. GB wasn't running his offense nor was he calling plays.

And I don't judge potential hc candidates by the success or failures of other guys with other systems and no relation to the candidate.

If I was looking at another coordinator from NE I'd factor it in, but I'm not.

Lazor comes from a highly successful offensive coaching tree. He's improved our offense by leaps and bounds in half a season. He's developed our young qb to the point that there is no doubt he can play at a high level.
He's proven to be aggressive and creative on play calling and his philosophical approaches have differed with Philbin where they should (buffalo and GB games).
Reports are that he's very focused, demanding and intelligent.

I don't know about you Joe, but those are all qualities I want in my hc.

Hiring any assistant as hc is a crap shoot akin to drafting a qb. Few are great, some are good enough and most fail.

The bottomline for me is maintaining continuity on offense and continuing RT 's development. Id have no problems hiring Lazor based on what I know about him (granted, that's not close to everything) and I couldn't care less whether or not a player or two don't like him. I want a coach players fear and respect not a guy who's worried about his popularity with his employees.

I'm ok and have been ok with Philbin as long as we finish above 8-8.

dolphin Wrote:
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> I'm ok and have been ok with Philbin as long as we
> finish above 8-8.


Sorry can not agree with you there. I really hate looking at his stupid face. He should be a president of a corporate firm ruining lives of its companies employees.

I love how everyone is killing Coyle for his approach against Manning but they forget that scheme worked for the first 3 quarters, how about the players don't miss 14 tackles and maybe we win?

Ok so he is in charge of our defense. Is he ultimately responsible for making sure our team can tackle like way before the start of the season? So either way he still sucks and is responsible for the disaster we watch most weeks.

dolphaholic Wrote:
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> I love how everyone is killing Coyle for his
> approach against Manning but they forget that
> scheme worked for the first 3 quarters, how about
> the players don't miss 14 tackles and maybe we
> win?

Well it worked for the first 28min anyway.

He went 80yrds for a Td in a minute and a half to end the half, and had a long time consuming drive for a Td to start the 2nd.

THE Truth Wrote:
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> dolphaholic Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I love how everyone is killing Coyle for his
> > approach against Manning but they forget that
> > scheme worked for the first 3 quarters, how
> about
> > the players don't miss 14 tackles and maybe we
> > win?
>
> Well it worked for the first 28min anyway.
>
> He went 80yrds for a Td in a minute and a half to
> end the half, and had a long time consuming drive
> for a Td to start the 2nd.

The "he" you speak of is Peyton Manning no?

All i'm saying is, the Dolphins held Manning to 17 pts thru 3 qtrs, so Coyle had to be doing something right.

dolphaholic Wrote:
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> All i'm saying is, the Dolphins held Manning to 17
> pts thru 3 qtrs, so Coyle had to be doing
> something right.


I'm not trying to kill Coyle. I think he did a solid job.

Just saying that it's a little deceptive saying he had Manning stymied for 3qrts. He didn't.

Starting with that last drive of the 1st half we could do nothing to stop him (manning).

Manning did all that without Julius Thomas. Just saying.

Joe, every good/great hc is respected by his players and they fear his wrath.

It's not about fear mongering. It's about attention to detail, demanding perfection and accountability for failure.

Don shula, Bill Walsh, Bill Parcells, Bill bellichik, Vince Lombardi, Chuck knoll, Jimmy Johnson, Tom Landry, etc., etc. All those guys had players who hated and loved them at the same time.

I'm not saying Lazor is anywhere near their class as a coach. I have no idea. I'm saying that being a perfectionist and being tough on your players are traits I WANT in my HC. The fact that Lazor seems to have them only make me more inclined to consider him.

Sure RT is responsible for his own development. If he doesn't want to get better, or lacked the capacity to get better, then nobody could force him to improve. But he's not some qb savant like Andrew luck either. He's needed help. Help that he didn't get in his first two years. That's Lazor.

Looks, I'm not sitting here saying Lazor should be our hc and Philbin should go. I'm saying that if we part ways with Philbin, priority number one is RT and continuing his development.

If you don't think Lazor has anything to do with his improvement then it's perfectly logical to judge Lazor as insufficient hc material.

But if you believe as I do that Lazor and his offense are largely responsible for RT's growth this year and you want to see what they can do together over the next 5+ years then you have to make him hc if the job opens up or lose him to another team in a year or two.

samsam3738 Wrote:
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> DolphinsRmeFav Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If Rex Ryan becomes available then sign him.
>
>
> Rex Ryan Is a clown. I don't want this scrub on my
> team.

****************************************************

He may be a clown, but he's a helluva defensive coach, despite what is happening to the Jets this season.

If he could handle being an assistant coach again, I would take him.

Posters here are hammering Coyle for not being more aggressive - what do you think Rex is, if not aggressive?

He would make this defense top.

Truth

Thought this was sort of ironic given our conversation. Not that I put much stock in this guy.....

Omar Kelly ? @OmarKelly

Joe Philbin will not motivate you to run through a brick wall. BUT he will get his team ready to be an opponent. Game plan is usually sharp

Omar Kelly ? @OmarKelly

"@AdamNasello: Is Philbin liked by the players?"» he's respected. That's good enough.


Omar Kelly ? @OmarKelly

The jerks of the world don't last long in the NFL UNLESS they win big. NFL is a player's league. They need to like their head coach.


Omar Kelly ? @OmarKelly

"@benmilstein: think Bill Lazor will be a successful head coach one day in the NFL?"» absolutely, but I think his people skills needs work

JoeFootball Wrote:
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> Truth
>
> Thought this was sort of ironic given our
> conversation. Not that I put much stock in this
> guy.....
>
> Omar Kelly ? @OmarKelly
>
> Joe Philbin will not motivate you to run through a
> brick wall. BUT he will get his team ready to be
> an opponent. Game plan is usually sharp
>
> Omar Kelly ? @OmarKelly
>
> "@AdamNasello: Is Philbin liked by the players?"»
> he's respected. That's good enough.
>
>
> Omar Kelly ? @OmarKelly
>
> The jerks of the world don't last long in the NFL
> UNLESS they win big. NFL is a player's league.
> They need to like their head coach.
>
>
> Omar Kelly ? @OmarKelly
>
> "@benmilstein: think Bill Lazor will be a
> successful head coach one day in the NFL?"»
> absolutely, but I think his people skills needs
> work


Now I don't want him. If Omar likes him then I'm out.

JoeFootball Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Truth
>
> Thought this was sort of ironic given our
> conversation. Not that I put much stock in this
> guy.....
>
> Omar Kelly ? @OmarKelly
>
> Joe Philbin will not motivate you to run through a
> brick wall. BUT he will get his team ready to be
> an opponent. Game plan is usually sharp
>
> Omar Kelly ? @OmarKelly
>
> "@AdamNasello: Is Philbin liked by the players?"»
> he's respected. That's good enough.
>
>
> Omar Kelly ? @OmarKelly
>
> The jerks of the world don't last long in the NFL
> UNLESS they win big. NFL is a player's league.
> They need to like their head coach.
>
>
> Omar Kelly ? @OmarKelly
>
> "@benmilstein: think Bill Lazor will be a
> successful head coach one day in the NFL?"»
> absolutely, but I think his people skills needs
> work


But seriously, you can improve people skills. Coughlin proved that.

The other stuff you either have or you don't.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2014 10:24AM by THE Truth.

DMF when was the last time you saw a team fire and replace just the HC and DC?

The only ways lazor stays in that scenario is promoting him to HC or if you hire another first time HC.

Harbaugh cleans house. The entire staff save maybe the equipment guy or low level guy stay but he's not walking into a ready made staff.

Year 3 with significant improvement is not the time for a regime change. Replace the DC.

This is different Lazor has clear results and was just hired. Plus we hear he is a ass so him and Harbaugh will probably get along just fine.

Harbaugh probably doesn't work with Hickey either, he's not coming here for and being told who he's getting on his staff

DolphinsRmeFav Wrote:
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> This is different Lazor has clear results and was
> just hired. Plus we hear he is a ass so him and
> Harbaugh will probably get along just fine.


No it's not. Name me a time that's happened in the last 20 years.

I wish I could 08 but who He bring?

The day Harbaugh comes to Miami to be HC is the day I become a Saints fan.

JoeFootball Wrote:
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> The day Harbaugh comes to Miami to be HC is the
> day I become a Saints fan.


Just remember you said it!

Yep and I fear will stay that way unless we get a good HC and DC.

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
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> Ken Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The only change I'd consider in the coaching
> staff
> > would be Coyle. He needs to be much more
> agressive
> > IMHO.
> >
> > The team as a whole is playing the best football
> we have seen in Miami in quite a few seasons.
>
> &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
>
> We are 6-5, just barely over .500. If that is
> "playing the best football we have seen in Miami
> in quite a few seasons"... then..well.. that shows
> you how pathetic we've been.
>
>
> Mediocrity and .500 football is unacceptable. And
> right now, the Phins are the epitome of mediocre,
> just 1 game above .500.

and if you can't see they're playing better then you're not watching.

we've been blown out in 2 games. Our 6 wins are all by double digits and 3 losses at Denver by 3, at Detroit by 4, at home to GB by 3. those are all blowouts the past few years and we haven't won easily like we have this year in forever.

Yeah. We're 6-5 and we're playing much better ball than we have the past 6 years.

jsm08 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Aqua&Orange Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Ken Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > The only change I'd consider in the coaching
> > staff
> > > would be Coyle. He needs to be much more
> > agressive
> > > IMHO.
> > >
> > > The team as a whole is playing the best
> football
> > we have seen in Miami in quite a few seasons.
> >
> > &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
> >
> > We are 6-5, just barely over .500. If that is
> > "playing the best football we have seen in
> Miami
> > in quite a few seasons"... then..well.. that
> shows
> > you how pathetic we've been.
> >
> >
> > Mediocrity and .500 football is unacceptable.
> And
> > right now, the Phins are the epitome of
> mediocre,
> > just 1 game above .500.
>
> and if you can't see they're playing better then
> you're not watching.
>
> we've been blown out in 2 games. Our 6 wins are
> all by double digits and 3 losses at Denver by 3,
> at Detroit by 4, at home to GB by 3. those are
> all blowouts the past few years and we haven't won
> easily like we have this year in forever.
>
> Yeah. We're 6-5 and we're playing much better
> ball than we have the past 6 years.

We are playing good, just not great. Which means not a losing season but not making playoffs.

who exactly besides NE and GB are playing great football?