samsam is actually making some sense today

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> yes wake is the best pass rusher we have and at
> the peak of his game.
>
>
> we have noone better.
>
> thats why we never win.......when we develop a
> player we let him go for some magic beans....
>
> Welker.




Welker made Plays! he was a great little punt returner/slot receiver. Name 1 outstanding anything Dion has done? That's because he got no play time you say? Why is a 3rd overall pick not starting or given a chance to start? Oh....he was hurt you say? So we gave up 2 high round picks for a hurt developmental DE .......when we already have one of the best DE's in the NFL and great depth there?

I think you guys get my point.

Play'em or trade him, that's my beef. Nuf said. Wake goes no where. Loyalty should account for something to a great player.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

Play him.............it be a mistake to trade him and you dont even know his potential yet.


You can never have too many pass rushers. Especially when you have brady in your division.

But there is one way i would trade him though. And that is if they gave the phins a 3rd pick in the first round. Nothing less.

Teams still fear Wake, that makes him elite. I did not like the trade up for an injured DE.

dolphin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Teams still fear Wake, that makes him elite. I did
> not like the trade up for an injured DE.


Exactly. Ireland made a bad decision......again. Wake is in his prime. He is a superstar. He is in great shape and injury free. We have depth at DE. If we can get some serious value for him we should consider it. We have too many positions with NO DEPTH. NO STARTERS. Common sense. Ireland is gone. We need to take the loss , and let Hickey put a stamp on this Team and fill some roster positions with starters. Not developmental injured future possible stars.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

this team lacks stars. TCC if you think Jordan is a "possible star" then why in the world would we trade him for an OL? That's what I mean by shortsighted. We've got no stars on this team beyond Wake and maybe Wallace. Jordan is a lottery ticket, we already paid for him so let's see if he pays off this year.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> this team lacks stars. TCC if you think Jordan is
> a "possible star" then why in the world would we
> trade him for an OL? That's what I mean by
> shortsighted. We've got no stars on this team
> beyond Wake and maybe Wallace. Jordan is a lottery
> ticket, we already paid for him so let's see if he
> pays off this year.


The problem is that anything you trade him for is also a lottery ticket.

Trading Jordan one year after trading up to get him because everyone in your front office and on your coaching staff agreed he was the one player worth trading up for just to buy another lottery ticket seems a bit shortsighted considering that Wake is 32 and close to the end of a brilliant career.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> this team lacks stars. TCC if you think Jordan is
> a "possible star" then why in the world would we
> trade him for an OL? That's what I mean by
> shortsighted. We've got no stars on this team
> beyond Wake and maybe Wallace. Jordan is a lottery
> ticket, we already paid for him so let's see if he
> pays off this year.



Stars? really? Is that what wins ballgames now? Is this the NY Yankees? Grimes can be a Star. So can Reshad Jones and Wake. Tannehill already is the best selling jersey in the NFL. But who gives a shit? I want to win ballgames not sell jerseys. We can't do that with a Oline with more holes then a spaghetti strainer. No running game and a defense that can't stop the run.

Its like You have a Killer Corvette in the driveway. You have 2 kids with another one on the way. Instead of buying a mini Van that would make more sense, you go out and buy another Vette that doesn't run for the "future". Because its cool.

I'd love to have the luxury of keeping Dion around. We probably will. But......if someone offers us decent value we need to drop the broken Vette and get something that seats 5 with better gas mileage and lower insurance. Because it fits the family ( The TEAM.)

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

of course stars win ballgames. they always have. I am talking Marinos, Claytons, Dupers. We've got no one on the team like that. You plug your lunchpail guys around them. I don't recall winning all those games in the 80s and 90s because we had Ronnie Lee at RT.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> of course stars win ballgames. they always have. I
> am talking Marinos, Claytons, Dupers. We've got no
> one on the team like that. You plug your lunchpail
> guys around them. I don't recall winning all
> those games in the 80s and 90s because we had
> Ronnie Lee at RT.


New England doesn't have stars. In fact as soon as they get too big for their britches the hooded one gets rid of them. They never had a sick pass rush either. They are just consistent. Solid. Jets were loaded at one time. Stars broke up the Team. They get greedy , want the ball , want the spotlight too much. Hold out. No thanks.....

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

Tom Brady's not a star?

JoeFootball Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think there is a misconception here about the
> "star" word.
>
> NE has plenty of star players but the "Patriot
> way" forbids them from becoming media darlings,
> with the exception of Tom Brady.
>
> Logan Mankins, Nate Solder, Devin McCourty,
> Sebastian Vollmer, Vince Wilfork, Jerod Mayo,
> Darrelle Revis, Tom Brady, Rob Gronkowski...
>
> Seriously? This team is full of upper echelon
> players. About the only positions lacking are WR,
> DT2 & SS. This is a good team across the board for
> the most part.
>



I'd say Welker and Randy Moss qualified as "stars".

But they also qualify as players they got rid of...

JoeFootball Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But they also qualify as players they got rid
> of...

Are you saying that players retroactively lose their star status if they leave????

No. TC said that NE gets rid of the stars when they get too big for their britches.

I would say that NE gets rid of them for two reasons...

1 age and declining
2 because they don't want to pay

My point was showing that they still have plenty of stars on the roster.

JoeFootball Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No. TC said that NE gets rid of the stars when
> they get too big for their britches.
>
> I would say that NE gets rid of them for two
> reasons...
>
> 1 age and declining
> 2 because they don't want to pay
>
> My point was showing that they still have plenty
> of stars on the roster.


Oh, I see.

Sorry for the disconnect. TCPF has me blocked, so I blocked him as well. Didn't make sense to me to read the posts of someone who isn't reading yours. I mean, if you can't engage them in a discussion, whats the point of wasting time reading what they write?

And I agree with you. NE doesn't get rid of players for being to much of a star. They dump players when they feel their play isn't worthy of the salary they are demanding.

dolphaholic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tom Brady's not a star?


DUH. Does your scalp hurt? Because most of that went over your head........

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

JoeFootball Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No. TC said that NE gets rid of the stars when
> they get too big for their britches.
>
> I would say that NE gets rid of them for two
> reasons...
>
> 1 age and declining
> 2 because they don't want to pay
>
> My point was showing that they still have plenty
> of stars on the roster.




BUT my point you are all missing is they get rid of them and never seem to miss a beat. Except for Brady of course. DUH. I didn't think that needed to be said but there it is. They let Welker go without even raising an eybrow. I forgot about the Darrell Revis pick up. That is against the grain a bit for them , I tell you what though, he won't sit out and demand a bigger contract with the Pats. They always have extra draft picks , Constantly. That's the heartbeat of the NE Patriots. NOT FREE AGENTS. Not any particular player (EXCEPT FOR TOM BRADY) there I said it again in case you missed it.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JoeFootball Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > No. TC said that NE gets rid of the stars when
> > they get too big for their britches.
> >
> > I would say that NE gets rid of them for two
> > reasons...
> >
> > 1 age and declining
> > 2 because they don't want to pay
> >
> > My point was showing that they still have
> plenty
> > of stars on the roster.
>
>
>
>
> BUT my point you are all missing is they get rid
> of them and never seem to miss a beat. Except for
> Brady of course. DUH. I didn't think that needed
> to be said but there it is. They let Welker go
> without even raising an eybrow.

But they did miss a beat. Their passing offense fell to 10th from 4th and struggled a lot during the season.

I forgot about the
> Darrell Revis pick up. That is against the grain a
> bit for them , I tell you what though, he won't
> sit out and demand a bigger contract with the
> Pats.

He won't have to, he is on a one year deal for 11.5 mil. Otherwise he has a 25 mil cap hit in 2015!

They always have extra draft picks ,
> Constantly. That's the heartbeat of the NE
> Patriots. NOT FREE AGENTS. Not any particular
> player (EXCEPT FOR TOM BRADY) there I said it
> again in case you missed it.

Sarcasm duly noted but whether or not they used free agents was not the topic of discussion. It was about NE not having star players.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2014 11:21AM by JoeFootball.

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> berkeley223 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > this team lacks stars. TCC if you think Jordan
> is
> > a "possible star" then why in the world would
> we
> > trade him for an OL? That's what I mean by
> > shortsighted. We've got no stars on this team
> > beyond Wake and maybe Wallace. Jordan is a
> lottery
> > ticket, we already paid for him so let's see if
> he
> > pays off this year.
>
>
>
> Stars? really? Is that what wins ballgames now?
> Is this the NY Yankees? Grimes can be a Star.
> So can Reshad Jones and Wake. Tannehill already is
> the best selling jersey in the NFL. But who gives
> a shit? I want to win ballgames not sell jerseys.
> We can't do that with a Oline with more holes then
> a spaghetti strainer. No running game and a
> defense that can't stop the run.
>
> Its like You have a Killer Corvette in the
> driveway. You have 2 kids with another one on the
> way. Instead of buying a mini Van that would make
> more sense, you go out and buy another Vette that
> doesn't run for the "future". Because its cool.
>
> I'd love to have the luxury of keeping Dion
> around. We probably will. But......if someone
> offers us decent value we need to drop the broken
> Vette and get something that seats 5 with better
> gas mileage and lower insurance. Because it fits
> the family ( The TEAM.)

****************************************************

If someone offers us a "decent" value? With Miami trading up to get Dion at #3, we better get more than a "decent" value for him. And if we are to trade him, it better be someone in the top 10, if not the top 5.

However, I highly doubt anyone will offer more than a decent package for him, so I see him remaining right where he is, and hope that our coaching staff can finally figure out how to use him instead of letting him ride the bench the majority of the time.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JoeFootball Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > No. TC said that NE gets rid of the stars when
> > they get too big for their britches.
> >
> > I would say that NE gets rid of them for two
> > reasons...
> >
> > 1 age and declining
> > 2 because they don't want to pay
> >
> > My point was showing that they still have
> plenty
> > of stars on the roster.
>
>
> Oh, I see.
>
> Sorry for the disconnect. TCPF has me blocked,
> so I blocked him as well. Didn't make sense to
> me to read the posts of someone who isn't reading
> yours. I mean, if you can't engage them in a
> discussion, whats the point of wasting time
> reading what they write?
>
> And I agree with you. NE doesn't get rid of
> players for being to much of a star. They dump
> players when they feel their play isn't worthy of
> the salary they are demanding.

***********************************************************

Not only dump them because they feel their play isn't worthy of the salary they are demanding, they also dump them because their salary is just too damn high, despite how well they are playing or not playing.

Of course, who do we blame for the salaries that are out there that put teams (and players) in a bind?

How about one of the 3-4 teams needing a pass rusher? We could swap picks AND pick up a 2nd or 3rd rounder for Jordan.

Atlanta misses out on Clowney and Mack. We move to 6 for Robinson or Mathews? How good is our line then?

LT Albert
LG Smith
C Pouncey
RG Dallas Thomas/3rd rounder
RT Mathews

That's a top 8 line right there.

Add Austin Sefarin-Jenkins in the second and we are a different team.

JoeFootball Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How about one of the 3-4 teams needing a pass
> rusher? We could swap picks AND pick up a 2nd or
> 3rd rounder for Jordan.
>
> Atlanta misses out on Clowney and Mack. We move to
> 6 for Robinson or Mathews? How good is our line
> then?
>
> LT Albert
> LG Smith
> C Pouncey
> RG Dallas Thomas/3rd rounder
> RT Mathews
>
> That's a top 8 line right there.
>
> Add Austin Sefarin-Jenkins in the second and we
> are a different team.

*****************************************************

Trading up to 6 with Atlanta MAY help our OL, but what will that do to the rest of the holes that Miami has to fill? Guaranteed that Atlanta will want our second rounder as well, and maybe something else. We would (probably) have to give up too much to move that high.

Miami, IMO, can't afford that.

NO...just Jordan. They get the 3rd overall and we get the 6th. We basically trade Jordan for Mathews.

captkoi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ***********************************
> *********
>
> Not only dump them because they feel their play
> isn't worthy of the salary they are demanding,
> they also dump them because their salary is just
> too damn high, despite how well they are playing
> or not playing.
>
> Of course, who do we blame for the salaries that
> are out there that put teams (and players) in a
> bind?



Exactly. Maybe its the definition of a "STAR" that we differ on. NE is always within Salary cap and they always have extra draft picks......otherwords "Options". They have options and losing any player (including Tom Brady that one year) and they did/do just fine. Miami seems to get "Stars" and their play declines almost immediately.

Dion isn't going anywhere. But I just don't see the problem with Trading him for less Value then Ireland spent. Might as well had a houseplant last year on the sidelines. Dion did not contribute anything. The draft last year is no where near as deep. If we could get some extra second rounders in reality it may be as good as the Value last year AND fill some well needed holes at positions where we don't have a pro bowl player already.

Just my opinion , I would not be upset to see a player go who has contributed nothing so far , that's injured, but MAY turn out to be good in 2016 for 2-3 players that can contribute NOW.

3 lesser players of NO STAR quality can easily help the Team a lot more then a STAR who spend more time behind the bench then the Fan they have blowing mist during games.

New England Trades players all the time for xtra draft picks. The trick is to HIT on those picks. Not even Pro bowlers. Just solid people who contribute. day in and day out. SOLID . Not STAR. No attitudes. just work ethic and performance. That's what Miami needs.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

Star = Pro Bowl player at an impact position. So Mike Pouncey, not a star. Cam Wake, a star. If we think Jordan can be a pass rusher like Wake, I don't want to trade him for a RT

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Star = Pro Bowl player at an impact position. So
> Mike Pouncey, not a star. Cam Wake, a star. If we
> think Jordan can be a pass rusher like Wake, I
> don't want to trade him for a RT


Not a RT, But how about a RT, a RB , and a LB? Look at a guy like Jordon Zumwalt. Projected Linebacker to go in the 3-4 round. The guy is screaming Zack Thomas except about 6 " taller. This is a DEEP draft. We get 3 guys at needed positions of Mike Pouncy Calibur in the 2, 3, and 4th rds for Dion Jordon I'd be stoked and the team would be WAY better off.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dolphaholic Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Tom Brady's not a star?
>
>
> DUH. Does your scalp hurt? Because most of that
> went over your head........


I'm sorry, I re-read your original quote........and I still see no sarcasm or humor, what exactly went over my head?

dolphaholic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > dolphaholic Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Tom Brady's not a star?
> >
> >
> > DUH. Does your scalp hurt? Because most of
> that
> > went over your head........
>
>
> I'm sorry, I re-read your original
> quote........and I still see no sarcasm or humor,
> what exactly went over my head?

Don't strain your neck looking.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!